Sunday, November 2, 2008

Are You Travailing In The Spirit?

I received this email in response to my Radio Invitation Post from what I consider to be a very astute responder.(by the way I will place the interview on the blog as soon as I am able) This was the comment:
"Pastor Burnett, is it just my imagination, or has something really serious happened to the church during this election? I have never seen so many mean spirited Saints as now. They use very awful names to refer to other Saints who are not voting for Obama. I actually heard one of our deacons say "in church" that he "can't stand that Palin" - even though she names the name of God just like he does. It is as if the Saints have been "gassed" or something. They refuse to hear ANYTHING negative about Mr Obama, but speak so awful about the others. I've even heard Pastors laughing about how Palin "claims to be some kind of Christian - Did y'all see that picture of her hanging in front of that house? ha ha ha! " Can you please give some perspective on this? I am so burdened by what I'm seeing. I can't help but believe that our leaders are going to pay a big price for some of the things they've done, condoned and said this year. Please address this if you can. Otherwise, I'll try to listen to your radio interview." ~ Corrie Richards Nov. 1st 5:26 PM
To Corrie and others that are feeling, witnessing and experiencing the same or similar things,
Your observations are exactly on point. The Spirit of the spiritual man/woman travails due to what is happening in the land. We are in the middle of a TOTAL paradigm shift of values and cultural change. This is similar to the D-Day invasion of WWII only in this case Christianity and it's principles are being overrun. Make no doubt that the CHURCH will prevail as Jesus promised but there is a sifting among leadership, followers and believers in the land.
John 16: 20-22 ~ 20-Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. 21-A woman when she is in travail (Tikto-metaph. to bear, bring forth) hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. 22-And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

The leaders "so called" who have allowed and ushered in the deception of the ages and have also perpetrated lies in secret upon the people will cause our nation to pay the price for their sin, false leadership and indiscretion.


Isa. 9:16-17 ~ "16-For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. 17-Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still."

This has little to do with Barack Obama or John McCain for that matter. It has everything to do with leadership that has allowed the enemy to seduced the minds of the people with their assistance both actively by saying things such as you've witnessed and passively by creating an aura of silence. This has happened to many in the pulpit and to many in the the secular world by the masses. Additionally, so far as the church is concerned exclusively, this has everything to do with the apostasy and heretical teaching that has taken place within the realms and confines of what has traditionally been called "Holy". Our decisions are now being made based on personality, history, relationship, and association. Promises of grandeur, and being or becoming a part of history is often cited as the reasons to promote and stand by ideologies that we know, from minimal biblical reading, are absolutely contrary to the nature and will of God and totally destructive to the community at large and more specifically the black community in particular. The biblical basis for relationship is non-existent in most quarters and has been replaced by what one wishes or chooses to see and be engaged with, rather than by what is TRUTH without compromise.
In my upcoming book, Ministering Effectively, I actually deal with this very subject. As found and explained within scripture and referenced in the book of Revelation, it's called adherence to the "Doctrine Of Baalim" (Rev. 2:4). I wrote this:
"What has arisen is a doctrine of Baalim that is being taught by secular mega-stars and mega-church guru’s. This doctrine places saint and sinner on the same platform and receives from each fountain as it pertains to what "self" needs. This doctrine uses the bible as a means to an end with no consideration for adhering to the standards of it’s message. The doctrine of Baalim, blesses what God has cursed, reaps where it has not sown, and seizes control of spirits and minds by means of smooth talking, personalities that are larger than life promising great associations and fame. One thing is for sure, to follow the doctrine of Baalim ends in hopelessness, despair and utter destruction." ~ Pastor H. Burnett, "Ministering Effectively" 2008 Dunamis Publishing Pg. 22 [manuscript copy]
Similar to the tribe of Dan, (1 Kings 12: 25-33) today's church has erected it's own brand of Golden Calfs to replace the God of the Bible, and has offered sacrifice upon the alter of flesh, pride, arrogance and self-centeredness. The WORD of Truth within the church has become secondary to self-perceptions and social affirmations of the populace. Motivational speaking has replaced the gospel proclamation of truth and righteousness and declarations of "friendship" has become the gauge whereby ministry is judged among men.


So Corrie, you're not seeing things and you're not having some type of mental delusion. You are seeing plainly what many are refusing to see, because they are yet connected to this world, and similar to the "Matrix" would rather live apart from true spiritual reality.

What is interesting here is just like we travail over what is happening, the righteous are coming out with a new determination, a new dedication, and a new fruitfulness that will shape the future of their lives and the life of the community in which we exist. This is true decision time as the truth is being revealed. (read Psalms 91)

The questions are: will we continue to support and be a part of ministries that have allowed themselves to be overtaken and overrun by the enemy? Is it good enough for us to remain a part of apostate ideals and value systems as they have revealed themselves in many of our top leaders? These ideals and commentaries have arisen to reveal and illuminate the righteous as to who is actually a follower of Christ. Because there is a birth at the same time there is pain, those of us who see what is happening and understand what we are witnessing will run on to be the next generation of vessels fit for the master's use.

2 Tim. 2:19-21 ~ "19-Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20-But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21-If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work."

Yes this is a revealing time and Tuesday Nov. 4th will reveal even more than we see now. More so, the next few years will be further reaching and revealing as we experience an agenda that will be crafted by apostates and sealed with secularism.


Luke 22:31-32 ~ "31-And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32-But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."
Blessed!


Sorry for an earlier version--I forgot to use spell-check-(LOL)

35 comments:

  1. Matt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    Far too many people in the church today think (1) popular (2) large and (3) unconventional is good and blessed. They call it being "out the box". This is a farce. God's way is narrow, unpopular and unchangeable. Few see it as a desirable way to eternal life. Thus, the celebrity image of the "megachurch" is seen as a good model for churches. Pastors have been seduced into trying to replicate something that is at best an unbiblical model. We are in a season where sound doctrine is despised as "tradition" and "legalism". Yet, our charge is to preach sound doctrine whether it is in season or out. Those who hold to preaching it out of season will surely be reviled.

    I think this is what fuels the "spirit" behind those who spew hate towards other saints who speak out against Obama. That some pastor would laugh at an violent display of hate by homosexuals against Sarah Palin is inconscionable.

    Pastor, thanks for putting into words what is going on spiritually. We are seeing it manifest in the natural. Like Sis Corrie, I have heard some of the most ungodly words come out of the mouths of the saints against those who refuse to support Obama. At times, I am very hesitant to tell fellow saints that I will not vote for Obama.

    I can expect the usual, "uncle toms", "oreos", "sellouts", plus new hateful terms.

    Not from the world mind you, but the church. I beleive this is the voice of the foolish virgins rising up to praise their hero. There's a reason they didnt have any oil when the bridegroom came.

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  2. As always, excellent comments GCMwatch.

    In no way do I intend to lift up Mccain, becuse he's far gone in my book, but Obama actually and unashamedly deals with his view of religion in America in more than one speech.

    I've examined Obama's speeches and I'd like to ask what you and others think.

    Is Obama a deist, agnostic, or humanist in your opinion? I'm gonna do a greater post in a broader context but I wanted some feedback on that issue.

    God bless.

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  3. Pastor,
    Your question about Obama, deist, agnostic, or humanist:

    Obama believes there are many paths to "God" and he sat under Jeremiah Wright's teachings that men are divine. I am not educated enough to know the theological word to define this. I have copied his statements. Obama definitely is not adhering to traditional Christianity interpretations(....I do not know how to make this sound right!)

    The link is http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/obama-grew-up-with-the-bible-and-the-koran/

    Here is the copy:
    Believes Many Paths Lead to God

    The Faith of Barack Obama written by New York Times best-selling author Stephen Mansfield was released in August by Thomas Nelson publishers. The book carries the endorsement of Archbishop Desmond Tutu on the front cover. Tutu, one of the global “Elders,” calls the book “perceptive and well-written.” The publisher’s description of the book reads:

    “…takes readers inside the mind, heart, and soul of presidential hopeful Barack Obama–as a person of faith, as a man, as an American, and possibly as our future commander in chief.”

    Mansfield, says: “If a man’s faith is sincere, it is the most important thing about him, and it is impossible to understand who he is and how he will lead without first understanding the religious vision that informs his life.”

    According to Mansfield, Obama is “raising the banner of what he hopes will be the faith-based politics of a new generation . . . and he will carry that banner to whatever heights of power his God and the American people allow.”

    Recently, when Obama was interviewed by Rick Warren, Obama told Warren that Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior. Yet this “banner” Obama raises is one that has an inter-spiritual foundation, representing a new kind of “Christianity,” one that looks more like Brian McLaren’s spirituality than traditional, biblical Christianity.

    What emerges from this book is a glimpse of a man who has New Age philosophy, believing that other religions are legitimate paths to God, and all humanity is connected together (spiritually speaking - i.e., God is in all):

    “Obama does clearly believe that the form of Christianity that he committed to at Trinity Church in 1985 is not the only path to God. ‘I am rooted in the Christian tradition,’ he has said. Nevertheless he asserts, ‘I believe there are many paths to the same place and that is a belief there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.’

    “He first saw his broad embrace of faith modeled by his mother. ‘In our household,” he has explained, ‘The Bible, [t]he Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf … on Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to a church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.’” (p.55 of Mansfield’s book, quoting from Audacity of Hope, Obama, p. 203).

    After his inter-spiritually-based upbringing, Obama later spent twenty years in a church, which promotes the panenthestic (God in all), inter-spiritual approach. In a 2006 article in United Church News, Obama stated that the teachings of the UCC (United Church of Christ), of which he was a member (Trinity United Church of Christ) until recently, are “foundation stones for his political work.” Just what are those “teachings” comprised of? On Trinity’s website, on the Yoga page, the following statement is highlighted:

    “Within each [of] us is the seed of Divinity. Each Soul is divine. I bow to the divinity in us all!”

    This is classic Hinduism that teaches that divinity resides in every human being. It is also the message of the New Age movement — man’s divinity!

    In Obama’s own autobiography, Audacity of Hope, he calls himself a “progressive” (i.e., emerging or postmodern) and says: “We need to take faith seriously not simply to block the religious right but to engage all persons of faith in the larger project of American renewal” (p. 216). Echoing the sentiments of Rick Warren (a close friend of Obama, says Warren), he clarifies that partnerships between “religious and secular” will have to be built, and “each side will need to accept some ground rules for collaboration” (p. 216). He adds:

    “Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” (p. 218)

    Obama insists that to base national “policy” on biblical truths “would be a dangerous thing” to do (p. 220).

    There is one sentence in Audacity of Hope that sums up Barack Obama’s spirituality. He states:

    “When I read the Bible, I do so with the belief that it is not a static (stable) text but the Living Word and that I must be continually open to new revelations.” (p. 224) In other words, just as Tony Jones said in his book The New Christians, and just as other emergents consistently say, the truths in the written Word of God, the Bible, are not unchanging and cannot be looked upon as stable or immoveable. “New revelations” can bring about new “truths” . . . truth is fluid.

    To be interspiritual (all paths lead to God), to be panentheistic (divinity is in all), to reject God’s Word, and to embrace mysticism is to be what Alice Bailey called a rejuvenated Christian, who is one who follows “another gospel” and “another Jesus” (II Corinthians 11:4).

    “Jesus saith unto him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.’” (John 14:6)


    Obama is not my brother in Christ based on his words. Obama's own words speak.

    Finally, I am voting a No-Vote tomorrow. I will post another link written by a born-again football coach "rebuking" the black churchdom for compromising and being silent on this election for the sake of "race"!

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  4. BAA, BAA BLACK SHEEP

    By Coach Dave Daubenmire
    October 30, 2008
    NewsWithViews.com

    Baa, baa, black sheep, have you any wool?
    Yes, sir, yes, sir, Three bags full:
    One for the master and one for the dame,
    And none for the little boy who lives down the lane.

    Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matt 7:15

    America is about to be fleeced. The sheep are being prepared for a shearing. A wolf is at the door and the hirelings have sold out the flock.

    Barack Obama could not be elected without the church…especially the black church. The “ministers” in those black congregations are complicit in the destruction of this nation.

    They have trained their sheep to grovel at the teat of government.

    Popular theory has it that over ninety percent of black Americans will vote for Obama. If that is not racist, I don’t know what is. Is there any other “voting block” as monolithic as the blacks?

    What if ninety percent of whites voted for the white candidate? Can you imagine the howls from the wolves in the media? Only blacks are permitted to be racist. If a black votes for a black candidate because of the color of his skin it is considered a “vote of pride.” If a white man votes against a man because of the color of his skin he is considered racist. Go figure.

    The race-hustlers have played us for fools and America is about to be beaten big time.

    Let's be clear. I’m voting for Chuck Baldwin. I know, he is white, but I am voting for this white guy because he stands for Jesus. I wish he was black just so the race-hustlers would shut up. I’d vote for Ken Blackwell, Michael Steele, J. C. Watts or Alan Keyes. I support Clarence Thomas and agree with Star Parker. But most blacks don’t. To them, being black means they are the underclass. They resent “Uncle Toms” who have made it big. From what I gather, to be legitimately black you have to be poor, dependant on government, support the killing of unborn babies, and born out of wedlock. That is the image the race hustlers have created of black America.

    Listen. I don’t mince words. I will not be silent just because someone is going to call me names. Here is the truth.

    • Nearly 8 out of 10 black children are born outside of marriage.
    • About 13 percent of American women are black, but they
    submit to over 35 percent of the abortions.
    • The leading cause of poverty in America is single-parenthood.
    • Homicide is the leading cause of death among black men.
    • Over 1 million black men are in jail or prison.

    Forty years ago, our white President Lyndon Johnson launched the “War on Poverty.” This expansion of government ushered in the “War on the Family.” Under the guise of “welfare,” our churches permitted the government to usurp the responsibility of caring for the needy, a job which had always been mandated to the Church. Charity isn’t charity when you use someone else’s money.

    The end result was the destruction of the black family. A government check replaced a father. The responsibility for caring for one’s family was no longer demanded by the black community. Misguided government programs stripped the homes of the father. Overwhelmed and overburdened, the black pastors in the black communities turned to the god of government as the provider for their flocks.

    For a generation the policies of the Democrat Party have received the full endorsement of the pulpits in the black community. Trusting and depending on government handouts has enslaved our inner cities to the benevolence of Washington D.C. and the politicians who have enriched themselves through the misery of those they claim to represent. Race hustlers like “Rev” Jesse Jackson and “Rev” Al Sharpton have led their black sheep back into the benevolent-slavery of government dependence.

    “Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty, we are free at last!” Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “Words. Just Words.” Barack Obama

    Let me get to the point.

    America’s black pastors have sold out their people. Oh, they didn’t mean to do it. The catastrophic results of the destruction of the family have overwhelmed them. Poverty, illiteracy, illegitimacy, drug use, and government dependency has robbed many of their dignity. In a cry for help in dealing with the massive social consequences of sin, they have turned their eyes toward Washington and the government programs that they prayed would rescue them. They eschewed the moral precepts of the Bible that had sustained their people through the scourges of slavery when their personal morality sustained them. Today their licentiousness is destroying them.

    But they simply serve a new master, a new uncle, and I don’t mean Uncle Tom. Uncle Sam has locked them into a prison of dependency from which they may never extricate themselves. And the men of God standing in the pulpits have been complicit in the modern slave trade. I am amazed that God-fearing, church going black Christians will vote for the same black-faced candidate as morally deficient welfare moms, simply because of skin color. Is this what Jesus died for?

    “Help us with our needs and we will deliver you our people.” The pastors’ actions spoke. Election after election, nine out of ten of the sheep voted for their benevolent slave owners as their shepherds encouraged them to trust the government handouts more than the precepts of God. “In government we trust” speaks black American’s voting record as they blindly support a party that is against every moral standard the Bible demands.

    A new messiah has come to town. One of their “home-boys,” and now the slaveholder has a black face.

    But whitey is no better. Rather than standing in the pulpit and declaring that the fruit of Republicanism was rotten, the white pulpits have fallen obediently in line and pulled the lever for the lesser of two evils. The Republican Party is not a Christian party; it is a party that stands on a Christian platform as it shakes its fist at God….with the willing “Amen” of white evangelicals who think that McCain is somehow more righteous. Whitey is infected with the same malady that imprisons our dark-skinned brethren…..the belief that “their” party represents a morally righteous position. Sin has no skin color and the rot in the Republican Party is odious.

    George Bush has ruined the Republican Party. Our pale-faced leadership does not have the courage to say so because he is one of “our own.” Christian George is the face of white-evangelicalism and the holier-than-thou attitude found in much of cultural Christianity. The Republican Party establishment hates Sarah Palin. They hate what she stands for. She is merely a bone they have thrown to the evangellyfish to clear their conscience when the pull the lever for McCain. Have you ever heard John McCain mention the name Jesus?

    The silent Church, black and white, has put us in this predicament. Black Christians and white Christians are members of the same family. Too bad their votes cancel each others.

    America’s problems are moral, they are not political and merely changing the face in the White House, regardless of the color of the face, will not change the course of this nation. Until the pulpits, black and white, begin to once again stand up for the values for which our Savior died, “We the People” will continue to slide into the bondage our national sin requires.

    The answer to the problems in America is Jesus. Both parties have rejected Him. Many of our churches have rejected Him. Our nation has rejected Him. He has been giving us the candidates we deserve.

    “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Romans 1:32.

    Chuck Baldwin can’t win. I understand that. But I refuse to be like my black brethren. Often I have criticized them for their zombie-like loyalty to the Democrat Party as I watch my white brothers fall in line behind the pachyderms. I choose to vote for a real Christian…regardless of his skin color. Jesus is not riding into town on either a donkey or an elephant. I will no longer cast my vote out of fear.

    Baa Baa Black Sheep…..Mary’s Little Lamb…we are all being led to the slaughter through deceit.

    Black America’s loyalty to the socialist Democrat Party is an affront to our Lord. Whitey’s complicity with the “war party” makes the Church an accessory to sin. Black church white church, black sheep white sheep….A house divided against itself cannot stand. Mark 3:25

    Obama and McCain both will bring us socialism. Obama will only make liberty’s death quicker.

    “One for the master, one for the dame, and none for the little boy who cries in the lane…”

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  5. pastor burnett and gcmwatch, I follow both of your blogs and respect you both and your insight into the word of God and your opinions based on the word of God. My only comment concerning Barack Obama is that the bible says that God sets one man up and another man down. The judges heart is in the hand of the Lord and he turns it whichever way he choses. God chooses people for his purpose, and we shall see who He allows to become President. I am not a slave to any party, but will vote for Barack not because he is black, but because of who he is and what the bible's definition of a leader should be. The husband of one wife (he isn't gay or married to a gay person), he doesn't believe in Gay Marriage. He didn't abort his children and is soberminded, educated and has prepared himself to run for the office, he is not a thief, is not a liar, not an adulterer, etc. He rules his household well, he respects his elders and loves his grandmother. He has heart. He is qualified and to me as a person in corporate America (I know you may say this should be spiritually focused), but I am looking at his qualifications to run for the office of the President, not based on his belief, but what is required for him to put his hat in the ring to compete. I used to only vote Republican because of their stance on abortion and homosexuality, but then saw they didn't care about anything that had to with helping the poor and needy, and saw in the bible where it says the poor with be with us always". Reality for me is this: the church and this nation has been in a state of decline for years having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. I think it is an unfair assessment to lay this burden on Barack and what he is going to do when we have done it to ourselves. I don't look to Barack to change the world or my state, God has always provided for me. He opens doors no man can close and closes doors no man can open and gives me favor in the site of God and man and is what I have based my life on since I was saved at 19 and will be 50 in a couple of months. Remember Pharaoh chose Joseph to leave and we don't know who the Lord may chose to bless through Barack if he puts him in position. Adam Clayton Powell didn't have the best character, but he stood up for blacks to make sure we had rights and integrated the military bases based on them getting federal funds. My dad served 35 years in the army, and I was a recipient of some of those positive policies. Just my thoughts. GCMwatch, also not too educated on socialist ideas, but what is the matter with wanting to have healthcare for all, ability for students to go to college, less taxes, and if the poor and needy of this country can receive some relief based on what he wants to do, I am okay with that and don't believe I am selling my sould to the devil because I vote for him. The bible also says that "money answereth all things", and it is always nice when we have money in our pockets to be able to live our lives with less stress. As I said, I respect the two of you, and check your almost daily.

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  6. Thank you, Pastor Burnett, for such an insightful response. The church is on a very slippery slope I think, and yes, I do travail in the Spirit. It seems that we are trying to ENTERTAIN ourselves until Jesus comes, instead of WORKING for His kingdom until He comes. So, I guess when this election and the subsequent parties are over, we'll experience that "low" that comes after the "high", then move on to the next spiritual diversion. What a day! Thank God for ministers like you who are sounding the alarm. May God keep you strong in Him.

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  7. Oregonsistah,~"I am not a slave to any party, but will vote for Barack not because he is black, but because of who he is and what the bible's definition of a leader should be. The husband of one wife (he isn't gay or married to a gay person), he doesn't believe in Gay Marriage."

    I want to thank you for sharing, I am reading the rest of the comment but this stuck out. I want to be the FIRST to say that I believe that there are many good Christians who will cast a vote for Obama tomorrow and I WILL NOT let that seperate me from you, and or them.

    I also DO NOT believe that one is less spiritual or less concerned because they vote for Barack. The game that is currently being played is that "how could any Christian vote for Obama?" This was drummed up by the extreme Right (Hannity and Limbaugh) to seperate people by class further and to weaken the vote.

    With that said, I believe as Brother Enochwalked has pointed out the church has let down it's responsibility in this race and has not demanded that Barack answer the tough questions. Additionally the church certainly hasn't set forth a clear agenda...That's the problem. There is NO leadership at the level "to which the King caters"

    We don't need a spiritual leader for President, we need a President who can be spiritually led the right way or at least one who is receptive to the WORD of the Lord as HE speaks to HIS church.

    One of my best friends here, JJBrock will probably cast a vote for Obama too and I certainly WILL NOT break fellowship with her and respect her highly for her decisions.

    Thank you for commenting and please keep coming and know that you are welcomed as we ALL seek the face of God because truely EVERYTHING is in HIS hands. I know in the end we win!

    Blessed!

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  8. Enochwalked,

    THAT IS SIMPLY AMAZING!

    Thank you for that information, both posts were fantastic!

    Blessed!

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  9. Corrie,

    See that's why you gotta KEEP hangin around. You inspired some wonderful insights and some fantastic information. Thank you.

    Other's of you just watching and reading, don't feel bad or ashamed to chime in on this or any other issue. You need to make your position known. Like my daughter said in High School Musical, "We're all in this together"-LOL!

    Blessed!

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  10. Pastor Burnett. Thank you so much, and thank you for your welcome, I wasn't sure how I was going to be received, but this has been on my heart for awhile and as a Christian and have been reading the different Christian blogs that are calling him a "type of antichrist", so I have been praying and trying to reconcile what this meant and my decision to vote for him, and gives me an opportunity to put my feelings in writing. Thanks again:) for the forum, I absolutely love your blog. You are a scholar sometimes a little too deep for me, but I try to dissect with my limited knowledge.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the "leadership" of the church supported Bush heavily (the TD Jakes, Eddie Long, Rod Parsely, GE Patterson (God rest his soul, one of the few ministers I still listen to on TV) etc.) in the 2000 and 2004 elections based on him being a "Christian" and his gay and prolife beliefs, and monies he had targeted for "faith based" organizations that they benefited from, and it put fear in the heart of a lot of Christians and they voted for Bush, and he led us to a war that I don't believe was God breathed (my opinion), and we now have a nation of young, wounded males and females, widowers and orphans, parents that have had to bury their children (as a mother of a twentysomething son and daughter it breaks my heart, and I also served in the military) for a war that doesnt make sense.

    It just always seems to me that we as blacks always believe the white man's koolaid (or anything) is sweeter and better, etc. I really don't know many black people that do anything for blacks because they are black that includes supporting black businesses even when they offer better services, even in hiring practices when we are qualified and they are in positions of authority to make decisions because of fear of the white man and not God.

    I have also seen where we respect and give more to the white minister and help build their ministries and we are used for our musical talents and works in the church, but hardly ever put in leadership positions, and they exploit us.

    So I believe a lot of blacks (and let's get it straight, the black vote is not putting Barack in office, I live in Oregon and there aren't many of us here), see someone that is not a Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or a charleton with a shady past, and said why not, this is what my people from Mississippi fought for. If the Lord doesn't come soon and destroy the earth, it will be a reality for our children and grandchildren to hopefully live in a world where it is the reality/norm rather than the impossible that a black man/woman can be President, and is not discriminated against because of who they are. Just stating reality "first natural, then spiritual", I am not here to promote him, but want to give my perspective as a Christian. He is a class act in how he conducts hisself. As black women I/we are very impressed with how he loves, treats and respects his wife, he chose someone that looks like us and this is a booster to our self esteem for those of us who want to get married that there is still hope (I do have a wonderful husband by the way),but do have a daughter, that can point to him as an example of what a real man is and how she as a black women can be treated.

    Despite of what we believe this is history for us. This is really the meaning of the voting rights act for us. I have never seen so much racism come out and the attacks on he and his family, I feel like sometimes we are back in the 50s and 60s. I sit on the board of Quaker Christian University and 4 students hung an effigy of Barack on tree with fish wire just last month. I never would have thought in 2008, and these are young kids. This is just one example, is rather down right nasty, and I just have a hard time supporting McCain his background or Sarah Palin because she is a "christian" and her lack of qualifications, and when I looked at the GOP convention and the people represented behavior and no one looked like me, and align myself with this group. Everyone that names the name of Christ is not His. Barack has held firm in how he has conducted hisself and has not allowed anger, bitterness, resentment adn all of those things that aren't the fruit of the spirit change who he is. Much love to you Pastor Burnett and Pastor DL Foster (I purchased your book "touching a dead man). Keep fighting the good fight of faith and holding up a standard, don't stop, we need men of God like you too to sift through all of the noise that is in the church today.

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  11. enochwalked writes:

    "Obama and McCain both will bring us socialism. Obama will only make liberty’s death quicker." That sums up the political perspective, perfectly.

    One simply has to look at the men and women who surround both of these candidates, and realize who is pulling the strings of both of these men. Both men are globalists; both men adhere to a notion of a new world order; both men have been annointed by the likes of the Trilateral Commision and CFR; both men represent views that would be considered anathema by the Founders of your country.

    Men like George Soros and Warren Buffet (who back Obama), aren't interested in "We the People", they are interested in power. They, just like the Bush family, will use the USA for their own purposes, and to further an agenda more far reaching and devious, than most people would ever dream of.

    Jim

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  12. ps. Neither McCain nor Obama are Christians. And, in so far as the world's elite are concerned, Obama's notion of faith in "god" fits perfectly with the their goal of a "global religion". Many paths to "god", with no absolutes. Brother enochwalked said it best.... "we are all being led to the slaughter through deceit".

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  13. I think we would do better to evaluate the HEART of today's CHURCH, rather than trying to read what's in the heart of our political leaders and candidates. The Bible has stated clearly that "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9)

    As Saints, we live with Church leaders everyday that sin, make mistakes, use bad judgement, do abominable things; yet we continue to pray for them, say that they are saved and anointed, give them money, and stay in their churches, and vote for them. So, how is it that political leaders who must deal with things such as 9-11, Katrinas, Ritas, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the stock market, the economy, their own parties and advisors, their own human frailties, etc, be condemned to not being Christian because we don't understand or like their decisions? It's these kinds of attitudes that this political campaign has caused to surface among Christians that's causes me great concern. We're too invested in this thing! (By the way, I do believe the first "hanging" scene of a political candidate was that of Sarah Palin - a fellow Christian by her own clear testimony. Where's the outrage? Wrong is not wrong depending on the color or popularity of the victim.)

    I suggest that we all READ the word of God, HIDE it deep within our hearts, completely SURRENDER our heart and will to Him, be FILLED with the Spirit (not just once, but continuously filled), and make a FIRM commitment to follow HIM and do all we can to seek the Kingdom of God and HIS righteousness; then, READ (not just look at) the news (not just from one source, but from several), LISTEN to what people SAY (their total message), check out how they VOTE, then vote and be willing to pray (sincerely)for whoever God allows to be elected. Let's not be guilty of encouraging prayer for the candidate we like, and scorn for the ones we don't/ didn't like! (Have we sincerely prayed for our current administration? Do we pray for Condoleeza Rice? Do we lay before God for our leaders, whether we like them or not? Remember, true prayer requires a compassionate and loving heart.)

    If we do these things, then I believe God will be glorified and we can stand before him "faultless". All this talk about who's saved and who's not, who's doing what to black people and who's not, is not where we (the Saints) should be. Going down that road leads to more hostility, strife, racial bitterness, bigotry, and all the other works of the flesh we are warned against. The word of God that we say AMEN to and shout on every week speaks loud enough for us to know what God desires, and what the goal of His Kingdom is. Let's get passionate about that, and prepared for His coming.

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  14. Sin is bringing our death. The heart is desperately wicked who can know it. We all have gone astray and except for the shed blood of Jesus and his atonement for our sins and our acceptance of him, there would be no hope. Is Jesus against globalism and socialism? I am not being facetious, I really want to know. Jesus came to seek and save the lost, not just the Americans. We are so self righteous as a country, it kills me.

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  15. Oregonsistah,

    Thank you. I believe your points are made well and is good food for thought. I know for me I have consistently said that anything negative against Barack is not vicariously an endorsement of Mccain. As I state there are too many problems with his agenda.

    So far as the person or personality of Barack. I agree that he has many good qualities and seems to be a "personable" person, but that's NOT why we elect a President.

    So we should not elect based on personality and we should not elect based on his religious ability. But we should elect based on how our agenda as Christians and citizens of a "free" society is either received or rejected.

    In this case, Christian leaders HAVE NOT set forth and agenda and Barack, as confirmed in Enochwalked comments, has his own ecclectic idea of the roll of religion in a free society and he is willing to impose his will and authority on the subject. That is dangerous family man or no family man.

    What good is it to be righteous in all points and yet offend in the greatest? Does the story of the rich young ruler come to mind here? Having kept the law from his youth up but was still far away from God...Then how about Saul, who's primary desire even after being rejected by God (1 Sam 15:23-23) was to be seen as "right" before the people in union with Samuel.

    This is the problem, as I see it. We are required as a church to focus on the complete package, not just certain elements that we like or dislike.

    Finally, I agree with Jim, the COMPANY a person keeps tells a lot about what they will and will not allow.

    Personally, in the ministry, I don't have ANY pimp-preacher friends. The friends I do have which are vey limited are all of good character, respectful and persons I feel comfortable that are involved in the work of the Lord. That's because I receive what I put out and I will allow what I like in my environment.

    Barack has too many crooks around him, and although I don't believe he's a crook, he is open to their influence. The BLACK church in particular should call it's first candidate and representative President to a higher standard by plainly and openly demanding more from him than from Bush, Clinton, etc.

    But will we do so?

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  16. Politics,by its very nature is polarizing.

    Perhaps I may be a bit different than others, but fighting for racial equality isn't my highest passion. I believe that we could achieve 100% equal racially and still miss the kingdom of God. I believe we can wipe out hunger, homelessness and poverty and still miss the kingdom of God. I don't believe any of those things are central to the core mission of the Kingdom. Mark 1:14. I've said before an atheist can feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit the sick and imprisoned. But will an atheist preach salvation by Christ? According to the scriptures "good works" doesnt make one righteous or "saved". While ministry to the physical needs of man is a worthy effort (called social justice by some) it cant be elevated to the level of the salvation of man. What shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    To me, this is a "times and seasons" issue with Obama. I think the church has been blinded or is choosing to ignore the spiritual climate in which we live. I believe God is calling us to war, while we want "peace" thus rejecting his intent for us and in the process getting the desires of our heart. As Isreal found out with its demand of a king, the consequences werent good.

    In doing so, God gives us what is a reflection of our collective hearts. The question is can God's people change the will of God? Or do we believe that whoever rises to power is simply because God wanted them to with no bearing on our own spiritual behavior?

    God purposed to destroy Nineveh and their repentance changed his immediate plan.

    Moses and Abraham both effectively "lobbied" God to change what he intended to do.

    Time and space wont allow me to exegete this out, :) but it all comes back to the "if my people" clause. The secular segments of this society are not supposed to know whats best for this nation, we are. But if our positions follow theirs to the exclusion of God's way (not a political flavored, theocratic rule)we are no longer salt, we are no good for anything.

    Sure every qualified US citizen is entitled to vote or support based on their own personal biases, my point is has the church forgotten that we are also citizens of a higher kingdom?

    I want to emphasize that this is not a apology for voting per se or for either candidate or political party, but an attempt to say we should pay more attention to God's will than our own personal desires in this season.

    Thanks!

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  17. ...and to comments from gcmwatch, I give a hearty "Amen!"

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  18. Corrie,

    'tis true, unfortunately the church has a selective voice of condemnation for acts of unrighteousness and hardly any nerve to break with popular opinions and that's ungodly.

    GCMwatch said this that caught my eye:

    "my point is has the church forgotten that we are also citizens of a higher kingdom?"

    I believe that's my whole contention.

    In addition Oregonsistah your point is well stated when you said,

    "Is Jesus against globalism and socialism? I am not being facetious, I really want to know. Jesus came to seek and save the lost, not just the Americans.

    This book,The Myth Of A Christian Nation by Gregory A. Boyd is probably one of the best refrences I am aware of on the subject. NONE of these earthly systems are godly although some include godly principles. we must be careful to exalt one over the other as God's choice and ideal for Christian society. The word says that HIS Kingdom is not of this world. (Jn. 18:36)

    This is good, I love a spirited debate and various viewpoints. Let's talk about this Saints...very good!

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  19. Pastor Foster/GCMWatch,

    Your two posts are WELL SAID, WELL STATED! I could not say it any better even if I wanted too! AMEN My Brother in CHRIST! Amen.

    Christians Friends, just as Pastor Foster of GCMWatch so eloquently put it, "WHOSE KINGDOM...are we building?" Are we gathering for HIM or are we scattering HIS flock?

    Many ministers in America(white, black, jew or gentile) are building their own barns, their own kingdoms, they are servants of themselves...The LORD JESUS said it best...
    Mark 8:33-38 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men. (34) And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (35) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. (36) For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (37) Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (38) Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

    A lot of black Churches think Obama will "owe" them payback or rewards for their votes! The black Church puts its hopes (indirectly or some directly ) into keeping its status with Herod and Pilate(the government!) If they think, Obama is going to look out for them(us), WAKE UP! WAKE UP!
    Obama serves another master...the New World Order. And I can say the same thing about the white evangelicals(Dobson, Hagee, Parsley, whoever) that places blind allegiance to the Republican platform. So whether its Obama, or McCain...Clinton or whoever else is put in the position of President of the USA--It is the World System! PERIOD!

    Think about it, who is funding their campaigns...and from a revelatory standpoint, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party---Both serve the same master....MONEY AND POWER--the god of this world!

    Now GOD uses world powers to accomplish HIS perfect will/perform what the scriptures said will come to pass. GOD used Caesar Augustus to issue a "decree" THAT MADE Joseph and Mary be AT THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME--Bethelehem! Now, that does not make Caesar righteous! But GOD uses whomever, whatever, however HE sees fit to accomplish HIS will! When Herod the Great tried to abort the Messiah, GOD's word was being fulfilled. GOD uses the devil...many people don't like this type of theology, but its true! Devils don't even realize they are being used, but they are!
    Want proof: 1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    Finally, we must make sure we who are blood bought born again saints ....WE MUST NOT BE ENABLERS OF EVIL! WE must stand for CHRIST, even in the face of being UNPOPULAR and REJECTED! Knowing what "Truth" I know now, I am accountable for that "Truth" and what I do with that "Truth"! Now, I cannot impose my will on anyone but I can give you HIS viewpoint, not my viewpoint, big difference!(it's up to any of you whether you agree or not, receive or reject)...THERE IS NO WAY IN ALL OF GOD'S GREEN EARTH with my "redeemed" conscience that I can vote for a party platform that supports abortion, and gay marriage or a party platform that does not have any concern for the poor or the least of these! I am a Christian FIRST and FOREMOST! Yes, I render to Caesar what is Caesar's...But Caesar did not save me! Caesar/USA/Democrat or Republican does not have a heaven or a hell to put me in!

    Last thing, HAS ANYONE THOUGHT ABOUT FROM THIS VIEW(The Spirit brought this to my mind as I was typing), That this election is really a test from GOD! A TEST! SAY WHAT? Yes, A TEST FROM GOD!

    So, rejoice brothers and sisters of the MOST HIGH GOD, We are at the right place at the right time! Amen! JESUS REIGNS! So whether its Obama or McCain, GOD's will is going to be done!

    Pastor Burnett, I had such a wonderful presence of peace from the HOLY GHOST last night with my choice to VOTE NO FOR OBAMA AND NO FOR McCAIN! Now, I know I must prepare myself to answer to any man why I chose this way...because HE Chose and Loved me.

    Deuteronomy 30:19-20 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (20) That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    GOD bless everyone on this forum in JESUS NAME!

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  20. Is Obama a deist, agnostic, or humanist in your opinion?

    Sorry to get away from your original question.

    I think what best describes Obama is that he has a carefully cultivated form of godliness, but denies the power thereof. Im not sure it can be classified as any of the above, but in terms of scripture it is seen as dangerous. From such... turn away.

    His religious veneer is much more pronounced than any of his predecessors and rivals that of the so called religious right. The startaling thing is that for years we have heard the godless components which are at the base of the political left angrily decry and denounce and mention of religion in politics. As a matter of fact, the black church rebelled against Bush's religious declarations. They saw it as disengenuous.

    But there has been no such outcry from these same people against Obama. He has even went as far as interpreting scripture in the context of his political agenda. I wondered is he a politician or a bootleg theologian?

    This is far beyond the pale of what has been acceptable in American political life by a candidate. Some might think Obama's open engagement of religion is no different than others before him but his is unprecedented where as the others, it seemed to be little more than a benign factor.

    Perhaps it is his being a part of the black community which has taught him to utilize our fundamental vehicle of influence: the church and the bible.

    Unfortunately I have not seen him use it in any way other than to attract flies to the honey.

    Comparatively speaking John McCain is a minimalist social Christian who appeared to be extremely uncomfortable and hesitant to refer to himself in such terms. Is that why he brought Palin on board? Perhaps he saw Obama's religious influence as a threat and brought on Palin to balance it. Just a thought.

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  21. To gcmwatch, you spoke what I was thinking Matt 7:13 :)

    So much has been commented on and so on point. Where is the church in all of this? I do feel that God is in control with whom ever is in the white house.

    gcmwatch again this is profound:
    "There's a reason they didnt have any oil when the bridegroom came"

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  22. Thanks for the insight and input, and will take it all to heart. He is now President, I am happy. God has allowed it and has a plan. Let's pray that as the bible says he will turn the judges heart the way he wants. As the old saints used to say "pray my strength in the Lord.

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  23. Thanks for the insight and input, and will take it all to heart. He is now President, I am happy. God has allowed it and has a plan. Let's pray that as the bible says he will turn the judges heart the way he wants. As the old saints used to say "pray my strength in the Lord.



    Let's be clear. From the beginning with Adam and Eve God gave his people free will. We have a right to choose. God did not allow Obama to win the presidential election. The choice of the people did. As a nation we are in trouble. Just as Adam and Eve experienced the consequence of disobedience, so we as a nation will.

    I am a 32 year old black female, and I feel isolated in the truth that is revealed through such obvious forms. Wake up Church. He that hath an ear to hear let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.

    To compare a man of such world religiosity to Martin Luther King is ludicrous. Martin Luther King was a righteous man. Do you really think he would endorse the stance of pro-life and homosexual equality?

    Obama states that he does not believe homosexual marriage is right, but same sex unions should receive benefits set aside for holy unions. That is a lukewarm state and he is lukewarm on just about every issue, but not one Spiritual leader has questioned him. Where are the Mega Preachers who have ties to government officials? They are hiding behind false doctrine. Dare they stand up and preach holiness. Dare they preach the wages of sin is death? Dare they preach Jesus? They have to hide, because they are not standing for truth. So to confront Obama would mean confronting themselves, and they dare not expose themselves. They would lose millions of dollars, and government funding.

    My generation is missing their chance to sound the alarm, but I won’t be caught sleeping. I will speak the truth to my community. The persecution is not worth the silence CHURCH.

    I am proud to be African American. I thank God for Jesus and salvation that freed me from the bondage of sin. Right now on 11/5/08, I am deeply saddened by the actions of church leaders and the black community during this election.

    Outside of Ex-ministries, Kimberly Daniels, and Dunamis word, I have yet to hear one prominent Man of God stand up a question the beliefs; Obama’s voting history in congress, and his pro-life stance. NOT ONE!

    But churches are having Election Parties, and Christians are wearing Obama t-shirts to church.

    From day one, Obama was not the right choice for people of God. Why because he is pro-life and he promotes a homosexual agenda.

    Why are we so quick to jump on what is popular, when we have not even taken the time to find out who Obama really is? My people perish for the lack of knowledge. I can guarantee a high percentage of the African America vote, was driven by celebrity backing of the candidate, and watching debates. How many actually read Obama’s book, research his senate career, and voting history.

    Change. Are we ready for the real change we are getting ready to see. Pray people of God pray. Mr. Burnett continue to Sound the alarm!!!!

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  24. Cheteach, your comments show your passion for God and his righteousness. I applaud you, and I too wonder why our prominent ministers are silent regarding his pro-abortion stance and his commitment to the homosexual agenda. But, don't lose hope. God will indeed stir his true Church to action one way or another! So, let's hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering. Continue to be a light to this generation and God will reward you for your faithfulness.

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  25. Psalm 75:7 It is God alone who judges; he decides who will rise and who will fall.

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  26. OregonSistah,

    You know I love you right? And you also know I want you to just continue to grow right?

    Let's look at this a little closer:
    "It is God alone who judges; he decides who will rise and who will fall."

    Would you believe that God raised HITLER to power?

    Would you believe that God raised Karl Marx to power?

    etc....

    Let's examine that a little more closely in light of what scripture says. That could be very important in helping to actually understand how barack got to be where he is...

    What say ye of these things?

    Anyone?

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  27. pastor burnett: How about when he raised up Pharoah and hardened his heart against the children of Israel? How about Judas, so prophecy could be fulfilled?:) Give me some more examples.

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  28. Oh, and not saying he raised him, but he decided when he was going to fall and fall he did!

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  29. Oregonsistah,

    Thanks for responding to my inquiry. You said this:
    "How about when he raised up Pharoah and hardened his heart against the children of Israel? How about Judas, so prophecy could be fulfilled?:"

    Those are both two very good refrences and both of them are sumed as follows:

    This is what is meant by God saying that he (God) turned Pharaoh's heart. In spite of HIS (God's) pleading Pharaoh TURNED himself against God. Pharoah responded to God negatively because God through his righteous actions did not do what Pharoah wanted him to do. Therefore, God turing Pharoahs heart was not because Pharaoh's actions were fatalistically predetermined, but it was because God KNEW by HIS omniscience, what Pharoah's response would be to God's actions.

    A parallel would be a man who slaps his wife...although he CLAIMS "she made me do it" we all know that he did it on his own, and that he has full responsibility for his own actions.

    Judas was along the same line. His actions were not predetermined fatalistically...Jesus says, "That that thou doest do quickly" (John 13:27c) in other words Judas had responsibility for hsi own action "Thou doest" NOT "That which God does through you"

    This leads to a greater point. Look at the temptation in the wilderness specifically Mt. 4:8-10 (recorded 3rd temptation) and Lk. 4:5-8 (recorded 2nd temptation)

    You will note that Jesus DOES NOT CHALLENGE the authority of the devil's rule over kingdoms of the Earth...This is startling I know, but read it and you'll see that the scripture you quoted about God putting up and setting down takes on a slighlty different context.

    The devil exalts in this world because it's his system to manipulate.

    I know you'll have questions and let's take it slowly because I don't want to loose you or anyone reading. get back asap.

    Blessed

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  30. pastor burnette: You won't lose me. I need to think about it for a day or so, and will get back. I don't want to be ever learning and not come unto the knowledge of the truth or anyone one else for that matter. We do want to rightly divide the word of truth, but you know I will have something else for you:)

    Got to get to work!

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  31. Now, someone will invariably ask, "OK, if Barack is in place because the devil promoted him through the systems of the world then his is an anti-Christ figure, right?"

    To that I say NO. he may be representative of the systems of this world but certainly no more or less than George Bush or Bill Clinton, or JFK for that matter.

    I guess what I'm saying is, don't give Barack a quasi-"anointing" or approval from God simply because he made American and world history.

    I believe that we must continue to focus on the issues and address the principalities that exist including the govermental principalities.

    We growin' every day...Thank God!

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  32. Cheteach: I was doing some research on your statement about MLK being a righteous man.

    "To compare a man of such world religiosity to Martin Luther King is ludicrous. Martin Luther King was a righteous man. Do you really think he would endorse the stance of pro-life and homosexual equality?"

    I am not sure if you knew that he was an adulterer and also, his right hand man was openly gay Bayard Rustin. I have put the link below who organized the montgomery boycott and the march on washington. It is a matter of record and can be found on the internet, but If God used MLK with all of his flaws, and not Barack? Just a question....

    http://gaylife.about.com/b/2008/01/21/martin-luther-king-jr-and-gay-bayard-rustin-2.htm\

    So, do I think that MLK would endorse it, probably based on him having a gay man help him set strategy during the 50s and 60s. Most of us didn't know this and probably didn't care at the time because of the state we were in, we wanted equal rights and that was the focus. Not saying it was right or wrong, just reality.


    I just want to say that I have been a part of the church including COGIC and several other Christian denominations, and have seen supposedly "good Christians in leadership bishops, preachers, evangelists, etc. commit adultery, incest, drugs, homosexuality, abortion (to save face and keep an image), misuse money and people all in the name of God and lives not lining up with what they say.

    I still believe God shines on the just and unjust and do believe that he has allowed him to take office and has a plan. Even it if is to erradicate the racism and bitterness that white America harbors against blacks in general, and why that myth has to stop. God allowed certain nations to be elevated because of the children of Israel's disobedience to teach them a lesson. I believe in some small way it will give people a change of heart on how we are viewed and even as the bible says "he takes the foolish things of this world to confound the mighty" Most of us never thought in our life time. What was driving the racism in this country that would relegate a people as substandard? This how I view it. I believe there are more sins besides homosexuality and abortion that are a reproach unto God and don't agree with either, but everyone has a right to chose and we each have to give an account for the deeds done in our body. God sets before us life and death and it is up to each of us to chose. If we chose life, their are benefits we receive. If we chose death that are also consequences.

    I dont' look at Barack as the savior of the world. Just a man who has some views that I don't necessarily agree with, but still believe God has allowed it to happen for whatever reason. I also think we are a very self righteous nation and think there is no other country besides ours that God cares about.

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  33. Oregonsistah,

    Hope all is well with you. There are a few things I'd like to address:

    There was always speculation regarding Dr.King and other women. I don't know whether there's any basis in truth but I do know that part of it came from Hoover's FBI. Hoover thought all blacks were little more than animals and that we couldn't be faithful in marriage anyway. He hated King and what King stood for. That's why by Judicial order much of Hoover's directives regarding MLK have been sealed and cannot be seen until about 2020 or so (if memory serves me correct) The people responsible want to make sure they're dead and gone before that junk comes out.

    So far as Rustin, I'm not surprised that gay, gay advocate, Ramon Johnson is promoting that. I would like to know based on Rustin's testimony, when he became gay. Was he gay when he met Dr. King or was it afterwards? Was his homosexuality partially responsible for their parting of ways? Ramon address none of those issues, he wants to create "one big gay lovin' happy family" where everybody's happy, so sorry, if I don't just grab hold to his info and run with it. It may be wholly true, but I'd like to do some more research on that part.

    You also said this very passionately: "I just want to say that I have been a part of the church including COGIC and several other Christian denominations, and have seen supposedly "good Christians in leadership bishops, preachers, evangelists, etc. commit adultery, incest, drugs, homosexuality, abortion (to save face and keep an image), misuse money and people all in the name of God and lives not lining up with what they say."

    Sistah, I know I'm not holding your views against you, but don't you hold anything against the church. God still yet has a people out of a people and he's using them to his glory. Glad you made it through and we gonna make it further together.

    Finally, yes, there is more to discuss than homosexuality and abortion, but by far those two issues are challenging the black community and church equally as great as other issues such as absentee fatherism, male incarceration rates, and the rise of STD's. While other ills are more passive, homosexuality and abortion are active, agressive and has an effect directly sponsored by their cause.

    So far as Barack, yes, God is ultimately in control, that is "in spite of" what men and the devil do on this Earth. For some Germans (early on) Hitler was an answer to to their social and economic depression, but he was a messenger of the devil from hell.

    I'm certainly not saying that about Barack, but please don't be offended when others equally as passionately point out problems and discern his intents in some very important areas and point out the differences between what they see in him and what they've seen in others.

    I'll tell you what, you sistahs chimin' in on this board are some dangerous women. I see now, I might have to get a security team for y'all if I were to have you speak at the church--LOL,LOL,LOL!Thank God, God still has some strong and bold soldiers...we in good shape!

    God bless.

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  34. pastor burnett: I am not offended, and apologize if it came across that way, and don't hold anything against my brothers and sisters on this blog for their views or say any of it with anger, just love the respectful debate. You have provided a forum to discuss our views and where we can all learn. I also don't hold anything against the church. I love God's people and the church and what it represents and what it has meant to me in my life. I have a wonderful pastor and church family.

    I am just looking at the state of the Christian Church. Even though abortion and homosexuality is legal and accepted in society when do we take individual responsibility. My daughter became pregnant in college and said she thought about going to get an abortion, but the Lord came to her in a dream and showed her a baby covered in blood that looked like her and told her not to do it. She knew that I taught her abortion was wrong and we don't kill babies in this family, but the key thing was teaching her to fear God, he is the savior of the world, that he is real, that he forgive sins. She listened to the law of God that was written on her heart, and chose life.


    My question is:

    Since Jesus came and salvation has come to the Gentiles,isn't the focus now on us as individuals (and not a nation) to accept the Savior's message, "that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"... God looked to see if there were any righteous if there were any that sought after God, there were none. He shed his blood to cleanse us from our sins. ...to as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on his name.

    Seems to me, like the Gospel message focus is on the individual and once the heart is changed, we will make those decisions that please God.

    I just think we have gotten away from the message of the Great Commission

    Mark 16:15-16

    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Also, thanks for accepting the women, because you know we are supposed to be silent:)

    It is late, hope I am not rambling...

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  35. Oregonsistah,

    Thank you for sharing that testimony regarding your daughter. I know your daughter is glad she followed the leadership of the Lord.

    In dealing with the comical first...Yea "silent" women. When I'm hungry, I really don't care if the hand I receive my food from has manicured nails or not-LOL...Sistah, there has been a total misrepresentation of scripture and history...but yet, that's another story...

    So far as what you were saying about individual responsibility, I can't support you enough in that issue. For so long long individuals commented that the "ultra" spiritual were "so heavenly minded that they were no Earthly good"...but that "earthly good" creates wars, destruction and all sorts of problems within society based on political and NOT God constructs... So to "force" the state (or individuals for that matter) to abide by "God morals" seems to be beyond at least what Jesus did. notice that he chose NOT to deal with society politically.

    Now, aside from that what do we do? Simply allow society to impose their morality upon us without resistance? Somehow I don't believe that's the answere either, as I don't see the kingdom of God as it expands being that ineffectual in social change.

    So you raise some beautiful points certainly worth considering, that cannot be overlooked and demanding study on a more indepth basis.

    I'll echo the fact that our Personal and individual responsibility is abundantly clear and without question. We are to "be holy" as HE is Holy.

    Thanks sistah...good job!

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