Tuesday, June 30, 2009

Can Christians Have Demons? Pt. 2

Item 3: “The Devil Made Me Do It!”

The late Flip Wilson on his 1970’s ‘The Flip Wilson Show’ pretended to be a particular character named “Geraldine” who often uttered, “The devil made me do it!” That was comedy. Unfortunately, in real life many individuals continue the same theme.

We will have to acknowledge some individuals are controlled by demons and do what demons tell them to do, and even are possibly possessed of demons for real. Need I mention Jim Jones, who saw to it that he would kill hundreds in Guyana, and did so happily until the end. Then there’s David Koresh, who claimed to be Jesus leading the people of God to a new apocalypse and a bright new future. Then there are others such as Sherman Allen, and and Terry Hornbuckle who thought that the women of the congreagations were there for pastoral freak purposes instead of the salvation of their souls.

Then there are the more moderate individuals who, if they don’t have a demon, certainly spend their time listening to them such as Creflo Dollar who has recently said that Jesus was not God because Jesus “slept” and the scriptures says that God neither “slumbers nor sleeps”. Now, if that that doesn’t sound like a demon then I don’t know what does.

Many of us would all like to rationalize the actions of these individuals as the result of demonic infestations, because we really can’t fathom someone doing those acts or saying those things without being possessed by demons. We can agree that there is and was some demonic activity in all of what I just mentioned, but we must ask…Is all of that a result of a demon or just the defiled hearts of these individuals who love themselves more than they love God?

There is another class of demons such as Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy, killers that kill for fun or that cut off people’s heads, mutilate their bodies. Then there are individuals who perform certain sins such as drugs and sexual activities to the point where they damage themselves or others uncontrollably. Certainly demons are real and manifest themselves through people in many different ways.

Is There Any Personal Responsibility?

On the other hand human nature without Christ is just so atrocious that it has the ability to be demon like if lives are not yielded or rendered to God. It all begins in the heart of man:

Jer. 17:9-10 ~ “9-The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10-I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings”

Partially because of how we were born into sin and its effects:

Ps. 51:5 ~ “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me”

You see out of the “heart” flows the issues of life...Jesus stated that all these behaviors that are manifest are because of the wickedness of the heart, the "deliverance ministry" claims that it’s because of some external force of demons. Jesus claims it’s because of our dark hearts:

Mk. 7:20-23 ~ “20-And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21-For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22-Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23-All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”

And due to our condition of what the Calvinists have coined as “total depravity”,we have no self ability to make our hearts clean or righteous.

Ephes. 2:1-5 ~ “1-And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2-Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3-Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4-But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5-Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)”

It is here that Paul in Ephesians says something interesting,(as always)He says in v.2:

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience”

We were not only dead in our trespasses and sins but we walked according to the “prince of the power of the air” ie: the devil himself and the demonic realm. Some of us were nice, had outstanding moral values, were even assets to our communities but yet still walked according to demons. However, notice what Paul also says. He says:

“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;”

What we did in times past, was according to OUR minds and OUR flesh. In other words the devil didn’t make me do it as much as I wanted to do it and had the capacity and ability to do it.

Herein is the problem, when the Christian shifts the responsibility of their actions to simply a “demon”; they also relinquish any personal responsibility for their actions, decisions and ultimate carrying out of their thoughts. This is the deceit of “Pigs In The Parlor” and deliverance ministry in general. The devil can’t make us do anything that we don’t already either want to do or have a predisposition to do.

James confirms this thought out when he says:

James 1:13-15 ~ “13-Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14-But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15-Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”

The best effort of the world is to minimize what is called “original sin” In an interview with CNN discussing the recent demise of Michael Jackson, mystic and universal consciousness guru Deepak Chopra expressed that there was no one who was born bad or that was born a sinner. He explained that these things happen to people (they become bad) but that everyone is basically good. Now that could be a lie of a demon, certainly it’s deceitful and untrue, but his sentiments exemplify the desire of the sinful nature to feel that it has no problems, that it is perfectly fine without God and that bad influences only exist outside of it, not from within it. Deliverance ministry denies that our nature is sometimes messed up without the assistance of demons and ultimately, that we need a savior, not because of demons (which are already defeated) but because we’re messed up and are sinners!

Whatever we are “drawn away” with belongs to us in the end. As with anything there are exceptions but this is the norm. We are first reminded that we are culpable for our own actions. Even if we have predisposition’s for certain behaviors, this is why we must be born again (John, 3:3) in order to do away with the old nature and order of things. What does the scripture say:

2 Cor. 5:17-18 ~ “17-Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18-And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;”

“All things” include and pertain to the spiritual wellbeing, welfare, life and godliness of the individual. Through Christ all things are accessible.

2 Peter 1:3-4 ~ “3-According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4-Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”

Christians that feel that they have demons are not walking in full biblical council or the freedom of Christ. If one persists with that idea, one should make sure that they are first IN CHRIST because Christ will not live with a demon. Leaders that teach that Christians have and can be possessed by demons, or that attempt to cast demons out of already saved individuals, are leading followers astray and into false doctrine, heretical teachings and “strange fire” for which there is a penalty. (Lev.10:1-2)

Item 4: The Power Of Demons Are Defeated In The Believers Life

One thing we know, Christ has come to destroy the works of demons in the believer’s life. Contrary doctrines flourish where there is a lack of exposition of God’s word or mere misinterpretations of what Jesus actually came to do. Yes, we are all in a growing pattern but it should be a primacy for the gospel minister to both communicate the understanding of the true gospel. Contrary to Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen who believe that salvation was completed in hell, the bible tells us that it was ON THE CROSS that our enemy and his mignons were defeated.

Col. 2:13-15 ~ “13-And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14-Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15-And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

The enemy is already defeated because of the victory of the cross. The problem is that we have split service issues. Jesus said “no man can serve two masters” (Mt. 6:24, Lk.16:13) and the body cannot house both God and the devil simultaneously unless one is subdued and brought under control or cast out (Mt. 12:29, Mk. 3:27, Lk. 11:21). As stated the powers that were opposing the believer were defeated, broken and destroyed on the cross. This includes demons whether known or unknown. They have been “triumphed over” and this was done “openly” The “enemy” or evil one and his agents, both natural and spiritual, has been cut down when Jesus came in:

Ps. 44:7-8 ~ “7-But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us. 8-In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.”

In addition we have experienced the freedom that has been “made” within us.

John 8:36 ~ “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

And given power over the powers of the enemy:

Lk. 10:18-19 ~ “18-And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19-Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”

It is our ability as believers to continue to be made free from the enemy and not be entangled with his yoke and this especially includes his demonic infestations:

Gal. 1:1 ~ “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”

Item 5: Are There Demons In Music?

We know from both observation and current science that music has an ability to effect the innermost part of an individual. However there is yet not a “wicked” C or a “evil” A on the music scale. So why does music have an effect the way it does?

Remember that when God created man he created him a living soul. (Gen. 2:7) This is a physical or material (body) and spirit (breath or life) union, which God calls “living soul”. Man is a physical and spirit mixture with limitations and extensions in both physical and spiritual dimensions. God gave man certain attributes which extend from himself. These attributes are called God’s communicable attributes. This is partially how we are in “his likeness” and “his image”. One of those attributes is the ability to communicate with feeling or expression. The ability to communicate goes beyond the material world and includes the spiritual realm or world also.

In other words we live in an open continuum that includes both the material and immaterial realities. Prayer is spiritual communication with God, who is a Spirit, (Jn. 4:24) from a material being with spirit ability, called a “living soul”. If we were not spiritual beings with the ability to communicate spiritually we could not communicate with God at all. We would be stuck and confined to the materialistic and naturalistic realm. One should be encouraged to come to or develop this understanding otherwise prayer would make no sense.

The “soulish” part of us is where the nonmaterial aspects of our being comes. (I won’t deal with tripartism which is a questionable teaching anyway, I’ll save that for a later writing) The atheist supposes that this is the brain or some mere meta-natural process. The naturalist denies the “soulishness” of our being and assumes that science will one day provide the answer to immaterial parts of our beings such as love, dreams and the ability to hope etc. Please study our post Antisupernaturalism & Miracles Pt.1 and Pt.2 for more indepth information on this dichotomy.

I propose that music to a great extent, is developed from the immaterial part of man and because it originates from a spiritual part has an effect upon not only the physical body but also upon a person’s spirit or immaterial nature. Music, though containing natural notes which don’t change on the scale, is directed and effective by what it intends to do.

Biblical example: King Saul had an “evil spirit from the Lord” that could only be eased with skillful harp and music playing (1 Sam 16:16). David however played skillfully upon his instrument and it drove the “evil spirit” away (1 Sam. 16:23) However a second time the music didn’t stop Saul from remaining in that “evil spirit” and trying to kill David (1 Sam. 19:9-10) Music does not either possess or relieve one of demons, but music can be directed to accomplish a function and is an effective nonmaterial communication tool.

Music can incite inner emotions for the better. This is what we call “happy music”. Music can make us feel sexy. This is what we call “mood or love” music. Music can make us sad. This is what we call “blues”. Music can make us feel like dancing and be sad and sexy at the same time. This is what we call “rhythm and blues” music. Music can also present demons to us and influence negative behaviors. This is what we call “holy hip hop” and “gangsta rap”- LOL. )(OK holy hiphoppas, I’ll cut you some slack. Some of your messages are good, methods questionable and debateable but that’s why we’re here right?)

Remember, Saints are not the only ones who communicate spiritually or by immaterial means. Sinners do also. If what I’m saying is correct, there are many individuals that create music who are controlled and certainly influenced by the devil himself. (Remember Ehesians 2:1-5) If communication can occur through immaterial processes through immaterial means, then the stage is set. Demons can communicate, subdue and seduce using music as a medium.

The fact yet remains that the Christian cannot be possessed by the devil no matter what’s on the radio, but the challenge to those who haven’t yielded and surrendered their musical tastes and appetites fully to God is that there should be an awareness that one could be entertaining demons and allowing them to influence you spiritually whether you are possessed by them or not. One cannot take fire into your chest without being burned. (Prov. 6:27)

Steps Of Musical Freedom

Sometimes escaping influences of devils take steps of faith similar to taking a journey. At times tearing up a poster, relinquishing a CD may be what it takes to make a psychological escape from the influence of devils that await and exploit weakness. However, one must be careful because it’s not the outside of the cup that makes one clean, it’s the inside where the change takes place. (Mk. 7:20-23) One could very well burn up all their CD’s as promoted by a popular minister and yet not be free of the influence of that music in their souls. One who found that out was Kirk Franklin who claimed to be addicted to pornography on the Oprah Winfrey Show. He claimed to have thrown all his tapes and DVD’s away only to drive back hours later to the same dumpster, get in and retrieve all his material. What does this say? Deliverance doesn’t begin on the outside, it begins in the heart.

Of one thing we can be certain, there’s no way one can say that artists such as David Banner as referenced in Hip-Hop, Idolatry & The Church Pt. 8 is not either led, plagued or guided by demons based on the content placed within his works. We must realize that he is at least entertaining demons as he performs and develops ideas. This is similar to many groups and individuals such as the found innocent but still "Horny" R. Kelley and others that we have examined in our Hip-Hop Idolatry & The Church series on this site. However, the dilemma still remains, that many of these individuals are not claiming to be saved and those that are certainly don’t produce the fruit of that salvation. So that should tell us something.

So music can be a demonic tool for a number of reasons not to minimize the fact that the devil because of how he was created, has always used music as a tool of expression even in heaven before his being cast down.

If a Christian rejects sound council in this area, he or she will usually display that they have a greater problem than just music. Music is similar to alcohol and tobacco. They are simply doorway drugs that lead to greater destruction if one is not careful. Music can be a doorway and a pathway to immorality and immoral behavior. A better question would be, does the devil use music? The obvious answer to that is yes.

What About What We Can’t Reasonably Explain?

As stated, the reality of demons in no way empowers individuals to shirk or relive themselves from any personal responsibility, however we are in a very spiritual warfare and there is a spiritual reality that we face whether we know of it or not. The scripture clearly says that there is a spiritual dimension to our fight and struggle:

Ephes. 6:12 ~ “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

But what about experiences that are not found within the bible and that are sometimes difficult to reconcile? Some examples include:

  • The feeling of “presences” that enter a room and you feel or may even see it.
  • There are some who suffer from a sudden inability to move while they are asleep. Some have even been attacked in their sleep by beings that had extension in time and space. Many report that they feel that they were helpless to defend themselves and felt as if they were being pressed upon as they lay there and are unable to call a spouse or loved one for assistance.
  • Other instances include sudden, strange and unusual pressure and urges to engage in certain ungodly activities.
  • For some there are sudden blackouts and losses of time. Some associate these type of episodes with addictions, but could this also be because of a demon(s)?

Because we are in a dimension that is spiritually open, the unseen spiritual world can be revealed at any time. One thing is for sure. There is no safety in that world without Jesus. He has claimed to be the way, the truth and the life (Jn. 14:6) and that no man can get to the father except it be by and through him. There are entries into the spiritual realm that open the world of demons to us. No TRUE Christian follows those paths as they would be led by the voices of “strangers”. God leads the Christian and directs us into better relationship, fellowship with him and into protection from spiritual enemies.

A Word Of Caution:

In providing a writing such as this, I hope not to give the impression that the Christian can behave themselves in such a manner that they can enter into ungodly situations and be exempt from the results of demonic activity. Example: Ouija Boards are ungodly doorways and pathways to the supernatural and that will expose individuals to demonic activity and possibly even demon possession. The same goes for WICCA, Witchcraft, tarot reading, palm readings, seances and Voodoo and tattoos. All of those are demonic in nature and are ungodly practices that Christians need not be involved with in any manner. One of the seeming more innocuous items is the horoscope…Though it seems innocent, the horoscope can be used as a tool of the devil to bind and direct individual’s lives exposing believers to the leading and character traits of the devil himself.

In all of these things it takes submitting to God and resisting the devil and self-discipline. You have the ability to win that battle because Jesus fought it on the cross and won on our behalf.

Conclusion & Summary

In heaven judgement for reward is made based on what a person has done.

Rev. 14:13 ~ “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

Our works will follow us and judgement will not based on what a demon made or caused a person to do. All illnesses are not necessarily demonic, but we know that some illnesses cause persons to act abnormally. Some actions are chemical and even biological in nature and regardless of all that all actions can be made subject to the Cross of Christ.

1 Cor. 10:13 ~ “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

The saint has not been placed in a situation that they cannot bear. The Lord leads us besides still and peaceful waters. (Ps. 23) The Lord does not lead or expose the Saints to demons, neither is his power so ineffective that he cannot prevent a demon from taking over the physical body or spirit of the believer.

There is a solid case and evidence that demons, at times, possess individuals, but at no instance within scripture do we see believers either possessed or being possessed with devils or engaged in casting demons out of other believers. I believe that these articles have demonstrated the following facts:

  1. The parallel between the “Temple” and the “body” is ineffectual and out of context, and therefore found to be unscripturally based.
  2. Moneychangers were a part of the temple processes by need and were not why Jesus cast them out.
  3. The animals that were being sold in the temple were there by necessity and the instruction of God and did not defile the temple.
  4. The temple was defiled only because of the usurious practices of men. (Special Note: Be careful of individuals who condemn others in the gospel for their website, DVD and promotional item sales while they themselves simultaneously and selfishly promote the sale of their OWN DVD's and promotional items as if they are somehow doing something different than those they condemn ~ Those type of things are defiling to the body of Christ in general. If it's not demonic, it's certainly ungodly.)
  5. What Christ has done on the Cross has broken the power of the devil and demons in the life of the believer who accepts Christ’s atonement by faith. In the life of the believer demonic power is broken at the time that saving faith is exercised and received.
  6. The power of demons are destroyed by the work of Christ whether one denounces specific activities or not.
  7. Spirits are not necessarily responsible for many personal behaviors. When demons are in the process it will be revealed plainly.
  8. Man is a living soul with an immaterial spiritual dimension that must be subject to Jesus for personal safety and wellbeing.
  9. Music can be a spiritual tool in the physical realm and can be used by demons to incite behaviors in humanity.
  10. Games such as Ouija, and activities such as horoscope, tarot, seances, palm reading, tattooing etc. should be avoided at all costs by believers as those games and activities assist in opening spiritual dimensions without the protection of Christ.
  11. A Christian or Saint CANNOT be possessed by a demon and therefore does not need to have one cast out.

This has been submitted for the edification of the Saints. I hope that it was as much of a blessing to you as it was to me going over these concepts once again. I’d love to hear your feedback on both articles.

Blessed!

26 comments:

  1. One question to stir the pot. Did Adam and Eve have a pre-disposition to sin? I wonder this in light of a portion of the article referring to James 1 where our own lusts draw us away and the reference to evil coming from the heart of a man and defiling him. What was their status? Do these scriptures apply to them, or are we the only ones subject to this? They were not shapen in iniquity as we are because they were God's "good" original creation.

    Personally, I believe it's a matter of seeds planted moreso then pre-disposition. That everyone initially faces that choice as Adam and Eve did, to either do right or do wrong. Now the demonic influence from tv, parents, music (seed planted to do wrong) may be different since some are subject to generational curses (strongholds) from the sins of forefathers, but everyone has to decide whether they will serve the flesh or God. Since I came up in a saved household, I was certainly shielded from curse unlike someone not raised in that environment.

    Once you have the first taste, then that's the appetite you run after until God breaks it by submitting to Him. I don't believe I had a pre-disposition to sex or drugs, but chose to indulge, and once I tasted, then had problems resisting them until I got saved.

    You can't really miss or crave what you don't have exposure to. Let me know what you think.

    God Bless,
    Bro Dixon

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  2. Brother Dixon,

    Very good questions and observations.You asked:
    "Did Adam and Eve have a pre-disposition to sin?"

    The pre-disposition that Adam and Eve had was wrapped up their ability as a holy vessel to make a choice that would eventually violate God's instruction from the beginning. They were created holy and good, but yet Jesus was a "lamb slain before the foundation of the world".

    It's interesing that even though they had an untainted nature (by not being born into sin)They yet willingly violated HIM and HIS Word without ever having been exposed to anyone or anything who had done so.

    So your question, has great theological and philosophical impact.

    I would say that since this pre-disposition is not based on flesh, and originates in the heart, that they shared a similar tendancy to do evil as we do. I believe that their actions were a product of the mind and will, just as ours are, and did not overtake them mysteriously.

    Caveat: It's interesting that Genesis doesn't say that "satan" or even "demons" tempted Adam and Eve in any way to disobey...tell me what you think about that.

    That leads into your next observation. You said:
    "I believe it's a matter of seeds planted moreso then pre-disposition"

    Depending upon who is planting the "seeds" what you are describing is called cultural commensurability of sin. That concept would hold that our actions of sin is a product of our environment or culture.

    As I've outlined, I believe that sin is not merely a product of environment but an issue of the heart. One can live in a sinful environment, be exposed to all the encouragements to sin (seeds) and yet not sin. I've written about that under the tags of "morality" on this site. Do a search and in at least a couple of those articles I'm talking about subjective and objective morality and I address the issue of culture in a greater way.

    So thanks for chimin' in on this and other issues and posts. This makes for good study and reflection.

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  3. By the way, when I use the term "predisposition" I mean that we have a propensity or an ability to do such actions.

    Example: It is a fact that certain chemical combinations effect persons to varying degrees...For Indians back in the day it was alchohol or liquor. This is not a stereotype it was based on chemistry. For black folk believe it or not, it's nicotine. In disproportionate numbers black physical chemistry is condusive to nicotine addiction. This DOES NOT mean that all blacks are hooked to cigarettes, but by the numbers there is a disproportionate number of blacks that are.

    What does this say. There may be a physical or chemical reason to do or be engaged in certain activities or sins, but that affords no excuse to enduldge those sins because the power of what Christ accomplished is even greater than that.

    So I wanted to clarify that. This is controversial subject matter but all men are not created by nature and appetites the same.

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  4. Praise the LORD!

    Pastor Burnett, awesome commentary! I still have to digest and meditate on part 1 and 2

    I wanted to add this to the discussion. Before my conversion in the LORD at age 26, I was gifted with a photographic memory to be able to recall events to exact detail over 10 and 20 years. Every major sin that I premeditated to act upon, not because I was "influenced" by peer pressure, or anybody else or a demonic "whispers", from kicking a ball across the highway in front of speeding traffic after your parents told you not too(I remember that whoopin), throwing a rock at wasp's nest(Curiosity) and getting tripled stinged! LOL, having sex with a young woman(I prophesied that I was going to get laid that night! LOL!), telling a purposeful lie, excessive speeding on the highway, getting drunk for the first time....this was before conversion now, brother, I KNEW what I was doing and afterwards, I felt terrible(conviction of the CONSCIENCE!) But I WANTED TO DO THESE THINGS to PLEASE MYSELF or just being CURIOUS(I don't what you call that one)!

    Now here is the CLINCHER that I KNOW SETTLES the ISSUE of WHAT IS MAN's "RESPONSIBILITY". Are we ready? I KNEW WHAT WAS RIGHT FROM WRONG from the GET-GO! I will repeat it again or do as my LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST says, VERILY, VERILY I knew what ws right from wrong from at each level of growth/maturity in my life, baby, toddler, child, teenager to adolescent, to young adult to grown adult! When people say, whether Jew or Gentile or Christian Believer or Unbeliever, they do not know right from wrong...that's LIE from the pits of Hell.

    Now, there is a thing called IGNORANCE, and I stand on the fact that GOD says in HIS word that "in times past, GOD winked at our ignorance, but now HE has commanded ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent." I am quoting it from my heart, but I want to please the LORD, let me post what the scripture says exactly. Romans 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    Sin is sin no matter whether done in ignorance or done willingly. When sin is done willingly, that is tempting or Provoking the LORD...DANGEROUS GROUND! Many in the USA are provoking the LORD to destroy them. Yes, I said there is destruction for sinners if you reject CHRIST, and there are TWO sides to it. One who is in CHRIST, and willingly sins...YOU are provoking the LORD! And one who outright REJECTS CHRIST's atonement, YOU are provoking the LORD!

    Pastor Burnett, I believe that because GOD is our maker, creator, and sustainer...HE put DNA(physical, mental, pyschological, emotional, spiritual, conscience, awareness,...i.e. "laws written on our hearts") TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG! GOD made us to know right from wrong and therefore HE HOLDS us RESPONSIBLE, ACCOUNTABLE whether we DO RIGHT or WRONG! I know Calvinist and other theological types may not accept this! But it is the TRUTH!

    HALLELUJAH! I got Sunday's message to preach this Sunday! GOD bless you mightily Pastor Burnett in JESUS NAME! Amen.

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  5. This is an awesome post. Very good meat, I'm still digesting.

    I have somewhat of a broad question. If Christians cannot be possessed with a demon, what about those people who were at one time saved (active in the church, praying, "looking" as though they were believers)and then they are all of sudden back in the world? An example would be Tonex.

    I understand that the Apostle Paul said in the bible that if a man goes back to his old ways its like a dog that eateath his own vomit. Also, the bible says that when we return to sin we are in a worst state then we were before we were saved (you quoted the "7 demons come" scripture.) I guess I'm a little confused. Were people like Tonex ever really saved? Or were they just acting out what was really in their hearts while appearing to be saved on the outside? This would technically mean that they were never saved in the first place.

    I hope this isn't too confusing. I'm curious to your answer. Thank you Pastor Burnett.

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  6. lol @Bro Dixon: "stir the pot".

    Re seeds planted vs predisposition.

    If satan planted seeds in Eve, who planted them in satan? Im not sure that's a good path to travel in terms of discovery.

    If A and E were predisposed to sin, then the "created holy" reference in Eph 1 is incorrect. So Im not sure I would accept either as valid.

    I am more inclined to acccept that it was temptation and ignorance which allowed the temptation to become appealing.

    Perhaps predisposition occured after the sin ala the "adamic nature"

    While I agree that demon possession is a reality we face on a consistent basis, I cant say that a believer in Christ can be both possessed by the Holy Spirit and a demon at the same time.

    If the Holy Spirit leaves then, yes its possible a person while still CLAIMING to be a Christian can be demon possessed. I would question their standing with God.

    Otherwise, it is a matter of personal responsiblity as taught by Paul in Romans 7,8 and James.

    Its way to easy to blame one's actions on the devil and never take responsibility to deal with our own laziness in pursuing holiness.

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  7. IO'm getting to everyone's comments but Elder Foster let me stir the pot even more, You said:"I am more inclined to acccept that it was temptation and ignorance which allowed the temptation to become appealing."

    The "ignorance" you reference there indicates to me that God gave them (Adam and Eve)incomplete knowledge or a deliberate deficiency of knowledge in order for them to fall...That might be something that we want to revist.

    Is being created 'holy' the same as not being created without any predispositions? i mean if one is created "holy" isn't that by virtue of the statement a "predisposition" to do right as opposed to wrong?

    I stick with my original premise, [you bible thumpers you-LOL] Disobedience arose in the heart based on the choices and desires of those hearts similar to what angels thought was a "holy Lucifer" who Jesus looks deeper and says was a liar from the beginning...

    Thank God for you all...I'll get back atchya Enochwalked and Sister Ashley...WOW!

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  8. Amen, Pastor Foster at GCMWatch! I am in agreement with everything you stated.

    I have been meditating over this and want to add this to the discussion. I am convinced that there are 3 SOURCES of INFLUENCE on the earth.

    1st Influence. From TOP seat to Bottom seat. GOD(FATHER, SON, and HOLY GHOST) Next level, the Holy Angels. And then Holy vessels(men and women of the faith). Who is GOD's primary used mouthpieces, instruments to reach men since the beginning, chosen men and women of GOD and to present, the Body of CHRIST, the True Church. True Christians are those who walk in the SPIRIT...Galatians 5:16 KJV "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." The opposite of walking in the SPIRIT, which many walk in their denomination or religion or traditions of men...THE FLESH. Which is the next realm of influence.

    The 2nd Influence. The Flesh or the Fallen Nature, the Adamic Nature. Man through original sin gave his nature and gave dominion to Satan and his kingdom to "reign". This is where corruption in Man came. Man was intended to rule the earth, not the "god" of this world. Satan or the devil works or influences or attempts to reign over the flesh! We who are now in CHRIST, have....Galatians 5:24 KJV "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." Those that walk in the flesh or the lusts of their hearts...This is the realm many "carnal" Christians walk in! The LORD JESUS CHRIST will say to them if they do not repent and Galatians 5:24IZE (I made up a new word) themselves with the HELP of the COMFORTER, THE HELPER, the HOLY GHOST...Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, for I never knew you. "Christians" who walk in the flesh are GOATS! Amen. They tend to not take personal responsiblity for their actions/sins/behavior! They are usually "unteachable"! THEY ARE NOT COMPLETELY LOST, UNLESS THEY REPENT! They have been blinded by their owns lusts,carnal heart, but they have not "taken up their cross daily!" I know this the case, because I used to dwell in this category until GOD gave me by HIS grace, HIS mercy a great chastening and a great awakeining! Amen.

    The 3rd Influence. The kingdom of darkness, Satan/Lucifer and his demons, unclean spirits, and other wicked spirits. A person who walks in this realm have "sold their soul" for the devil. I do not believe there is repentance for these types. They are living devils. Judas Iscariot became a devil versus Peter being weak in the flesh when he denied the LORD 3time! I categorize people who walk in this realm as antichrists, sons of Belial, Sons of Cain, Sons of Darkness, Tares, or Wolves in Sheeps Clothing, or Reprobate minds! They are demon or devil possessed versus true Saints who are GOD-possessed or SPIRIT-filled or Saved, Sanctified, HOLY-GHOST filled, fire baptized! Amen. There father is the devil as the LORD JESUS called the pharisees and sadduccess when confronting them! Now many say, these that fall in the Satanic realm were never offered salvation or will never hear the Gospel from the beginning till the end of time...but I beg to differ. 2 points that the SPIRIT is pointing out to me: 1. Read what Paul said in Romans 1 especially Verses 21, 22 and 28.
    21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    People who have sold their souls did what Paul says they did in these respective verses! They refused to know GOD, refused to repent of their wicked ways! So GOD turns them over to Satan!

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  9. Lastly, We have to learn to discern "whose voice is speaking through a person."

    For example, JESUS rebuked Satan speaking through Peter. Peter was a "believer", a disciple, a follower, and this same Peter had been given "revelation knowledge" from the FATHER that JESUS was the CHRIST/MESSIAH, the SON of the LIVING GOD. The thing that I know as a believer that separates the men from the boys (sorry ladies for the saying, please know that I am not excluding you,Amen.)...This verse right here, Matthew 26:41....the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    This is where we have to grow from being weak in our flesh and becoming strong in the LORD! That is the DIFFERENCE MAKER! Check this out! When the disciples could not pray with the LORD for 1 measily HOUR! They were weak! They DENIED HIM! They were cowards! But when the DAY of PENTECOST was FULLY COME, these same weak men, and the Bible says in James 5 that Elijah was flesh and blood just like you and I. Amen. But when they were FILLED with DUNAMIS from ABOVE! They CHANGED THE WORLD! This is where each of us, myself included, have got to GET TO before our time is up! When you have Dunamis, you can rejoice when men persecute you for HIS Name's sake! When you have Dunamis, You WILL fear No man, but GOD. Amen.

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  10. Pastor Burnett,

    It is not my heart's intention to look like I am taking over the discussion. The preacher man in me kicked in! I can't help myself! Hallelujah!

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  11. Enochwalked,

    Thank God for Sunday's message-LOL!!!

    I've got an upcoming post on Dunamis 2 concerning what you just stated about the ability to knw right and wrong. That is a deep subject also and I'm gonna add my little 2 cents.

    Now your quote about Peter, because he was often rebuked, is good. That needs to be developed to see who and what Jesus was actually rebuking and why didn't scripture record that Jesus cast the devil out of Peter especially since his mouth was yielded to him at that time?

    And by the way...holy ghost takeovers are allowed at all times, so don't be gun shy, you're a great blessing to me and I know to others who are reading and inquiring and asking the same or similar thing.

    Don't anyone hold back here, even the opposition is welcomed. They just should know how to oppose from reading the problems I've had with some of the other opposers...I just don't like "fakers"-LOL and I am grown enough to know that every disagreement doesn't mean hatred or even dissent...

    The thoughts of the Saints are precious.

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  12. Ashley,

    The easy answer was that they were never saved but I don't believe that's the biblical answer.

    Paul and the apostles knew and understood what the persecution of the Saints was about and would be about. It had already begun and was probably in full swing by the time Hebrews was circulated amongst the saints.

    Hebrewes 6 describes one who has "tasted" of the "heavenly gift". What is that? That is the language of salvation and reception of the spirit of God. That is clear.

    Another part is clear is that "they" who have tasted of that heavenly gift could walk away from it. Now, various can deny that all they wish in light of what they consider other scriptures that build a better case for eternal security of the believer but NONE of those arguments address the issues contained within this scripture head on.

    So what happens to them? Similar to what happend to people under Trajan in 100AD. They live under condemnation and are not part of the church any longer if they don't repent. in fact that was one of the controversies in the early church. There were some who didn't want those who had left the church during persecution to be able to return after the persecution was over...

    So those 7 demons indicate a greater weight of condemnation or even a deeper stronghold within and inability to depart from sin, although some would hold that it is literally 7 additional presences.

    Personally I've seen persons lives evaporate so badly from circumstances like this it was like they were being beat by 20 people at once. When we see the word "seven" I think we best think of Jewish symbolic and idiomatic language. This would indicate to me a complete overtaking of the mind even the depression that would follow one who leaves Christ.

    I guess that's why atheist Richard Dawkins is having summer boot camp for atheists now...wants to make them feel better about themselves and their rejection of God.

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  13. Has anyone ever done a study on what it means to be "created holy"?

    I think that would add the greatest benefit to our conversation and some of the issues that has arisen in this thread.

    I really don't want to do that because I'm kinda at my limit on time right now, so please let me know and let's kinda walk through that.

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  14. EW, you are what we call a bootleg preacher.

    Pastor B, he was at my blog and preached a five part sermon, lol

    WATCH this guy!

    Seriously, my supposition may indeed be flawed but I think it holds its own next to the other two which contain flaws also.

    Maybe there is no perfect answer?
    We see through a glass darkly?

    To clarify my "ignorance" remark. I speak of ignorance in terms of immaturity, rather than deficiency. Of course there is no fault to be laid on God's charge. But one can be holy and ignorant.
    Holiness is a progressive determinant as is maturity. God gave A and E a start, but they had to write their lives as the grew to understand his will. Yes, this is holy.

    Like a child who hasnt realized that talking to strangers is dangerous. Had Eve been matured in her understanding of who was speaking to her, she would have immediately fled. Yet she stayed and conversed thus allowing the intrigue of the tree and the serpent's smooth words to ensnare her. I would posit that it occurred before they had matured being recorded in the 3rd chapter.

    I wouldnt blame that on God.

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  15. Pastor Burnett,

    I would say that her conversation with the serpent was the starting point. I can't jump from perfect creation to willfully sinning without something in between. What we do know is she was approached by the serpent, and then after he twisted the Word considered the tree; so we know it was the devil. But we have no indication she was tempted or intrigued by it before hand. So that was my thought on the seed planted.

    As for Lucifer's fall, God only knows how that occurred in detail, but he had free choice like us, and chose self. Not sure where he could have that seed planted, so I guess I'd have to concede the heart matter on that one.

    I think that our fallen state leaves us with the inability to rebuke the influence of the enemy without first accepting Christ, which Eve failed to do, and Adam (God help the man) didn't even appear to consider. I think this relates to Foster's comment on ignorance. Eve was not in the same position as Adam in maturity, so their transgressions have different weight (all sin) but not the same taste in God's mouth IMO. But we have to reconcile to get authority over the influence. Even as saved folk we have to be mindful of what we allow to come into our vessels via conversation, tv, movies, etc. to prevent seeds of lust, greed, etc. from being planted and growing in us. And if something does come our way, we have a remedy with Jesus to knock satan back.

    I have a clearer picture of what you're referring to in terms of pre-disposition. Anything that's attached to our lineage nowadays I still believe has attachment from sins of our forefathers visited on the children. So that falls in line with the nicotine, alcohol. And which is why I still consider that a level of exposure, and seed planted from birth. Most alcoholics have children already addicted to alcohol. They have 2 strikes against them in a sense starting out.

    Ima chew on this one some more. This was a good post. Thank God for Salvation and Sanctification that gives us victory over every "imagination".

    Bless You
    Bro Dixon

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  16. Foster & Dixon,

    Amen and Amen again! I'm chewin' on this too. As Elder Foster said we'll have to work and pray and look a little further to come up with the right answer for this one.

    Both of you set forth some very fruitful spiritual points though. With birth there must come growth and I agree that failure to grow is problematic to any spiritual discipline.

    When we talk about original sin, and seek to decipher things we are dealing with 2 differing realities. Adam didn't have to deal with the current condition of sin until after the fall, while we can't fathom a condition where there is no sin.

    So let's keep working this, 'cause I'm examining and reexamining as I go and that's gotta be healthy because I think everyone is doing the same also.

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  17. Pastor Burnett,

    I feel led to address something that I hope was a simple misunderstanding.

    I wanted to address Pastor Foster PRESUMPTOUSLY calling me a "bootleg preacher."

    The Word of GOD says in Matthew 18:15-18

    15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

    16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    Pastor Foster, Since you labeled me openly, LET ME ADDRESS/CONFRONT this accusation openly.

    Now, let me CLARIFY and CLEAR the ATMOSPHERE by what I meant by that I have Sunday's message. When I commented on this commentary, the words I was typing, "my own personal comments" were the thoughts I was going to use for Sunday's message,****--NOT The Dunamis Word's articles/comments or GCMWatch's commentary/articles****
    I know that is stealing or what the academic world calls PLAGERISM. And besides I fully know when to give honor to whom honor is due. Amen.

    NOW, hear me. If I gave the impression or perception that I was going to use Pastor Burnett's article, I humbly APOLOGIZE. Because that was never my heart's intent. AND If I felt led to share your literature or Pastor Burnett's literature, I WOULD HUMBLY ASK FOR YOUR PERMISSION. I love to share and dialogue with SERIOUS Brethren of the faith. I may not have the size of congregation or audience you have, but I am a servant of the LORD working in HIS field too! I do not go around copycatting holy men's messages for my own glory or praise as if it was my own revelation. OH NO! I would hope that you have discerned me to be your brother in the LORD!

    Last thing, the SPIRIT showed me a vision this morning that you think I am a bootlegger or someone that copycats others material. No brother, you got me TOTALLY wrong. And, YES, WATCH me...nothing wrong with that, WE ARE ALL to WATCH each other in the LORD!

    GOD bless you Pastor Foster and I still receive you as my brother in the LORD. I pray this was just a "misunderstanding"

    Sincerely,
    Elder Grover W. Stephens, Jr AKA
    EnochWalked

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  18. EW, it was all in jest, not one word or intent of my comment was serious.

    Im sorry you interpreted it that way.

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  19. Pastor Foster,

    It is well! And to you, and Pastor Burnett and others, have a safe and blessed Holiday Weekend!

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  20. Enochwalked,

    Sorry, I'm just getting back and missed the exchange but I took Elder Foster's comments in the most lighthearted manner and after having spent time with Elder Foster know that he would never mean anything negative like you perceived especially over this particular issue...

    I laughed when I heard it and not because YOU were funny. Your commentary was on point, anointed and most welcomed...

    It's like this too though. One of my older members got mad at a principal at the school her adopted son attends. She was rantin' and ragin' and I had never had any problems with that principal and I couldn't figure it out.

    She is a beautiful person with a great personality.I asked her what he said. She told me he called her "Sunshine". I thought to myself "Is that all?"

    Well he (the Principal) is a young white guy. Like I said she's and older black woman. Come to find out, "Sunshine" was a derrogatory term used by some souther whites to identifyblack cotton pickers who were to rise before "sunshine" to pick cotton...She always though of it as a racist term...

    Was she wrong?..NO...Was he wrong?...NO. What happend was they just didn't understand each other or the releveance and context of what one another was saying...I had to interveine and NOW they are both working together to make the school a better place for all the kids...

    Enochwalked, neither I or Foster will allow anyone to abuse a child of God on either of our sites...they can abuse me on mine or Foster on his all day...we can take it, but you and ll the people of God(whether we agree or disagree) will not seperate over any issues or comments on these sites...

    Now, Foster can call me a "bootleg" but I may call him a "Teflon Don" not because he's a gangsta but because he's tough but ONLY in the Lord...At the end of the day we'll all call each other Servants of the Lord.

    So Thanks and all is well...

    Now, the question is was that a demon in the computer??? -LOL-LOL-LOL! By the way and speaking of that, I heard that the mainfram routers for the internet are called demons...(something like that) has anyone heard that before?

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  21. Maybe I didn't write this article well enough...as of today 69% of the ones who voted believe that a Christian can have a demon.

    Let's get this right...we have Christians who believe that the "property" of souls can be owned both by God and the devil?

    To come up with that understanding, there can't be a regard for any scripture, like the one that says that his sheep hear him and no man plucks them out of his hand (Jn. 10:27-28) Well then, I guess the critic says that the text says "no man" and satan isn't a man so he can pluck them (us) out of God's hand, use us, then some saint can cast the demon back out and we're good???? How ridiculous does that sound???

    God isn't sharing the use of his souls with the devil. People such as them that I've refrenced in the article turned away from God and the truth and reverted back to the flesh and were prime candidates to be spoken to, used and possessed by the enemy as many of them were. Still others simply had all this garbage bound in their hearts...in fact according to scripture, "murder" is a work of the flesh...

    Now, I would like to challenge anyone that thinks contrary to set forth a biblical case for Christian demon possession. I may even post it on this site so that all saints can examine it and so that we can deal with whatever hangups scripturally that exist regarding this issue.

    I've already blown up the shoddy parallel's that "Pigs In The Parlor" tries to set forth so you've got to come up with something better than that if you believe demons possess Christians. I'll be waiting.

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  22. I'd like to see someone set forth a biblical case that any sexual activity was inspired by a demon.

    I agree that certain activities are demonic, but Jesus never said sexual perversion comes from demons...demons don't have sex of any type, people do.

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  23. District Supt. Harvey Burnett said...
    demons don't have sex of any type, people do.

    I beg to differ. Speaking broadly, spirits can and do have sex - not physically of course, not without a host or manifest body. It is different and occurs on the spiritual level, but is analogous to sex.

    Further, some (not all, but some) spirits have identified with a given gender and will act and think of themselves as being of that gender.

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  24. ...Just adding thoughts. Demons have long since removed themselves from using possession as a mainstay. They've found it to be ineffective as a foundational tool of influence. The once famed lucifer has revamped his original game plan and he's in full effect waiting for the right moment to use possession as a mainstay tool. Many have lost or have never known the absolute meaning of sin. Many can define terms but when we define we often defy. As a body believers barely understand such things anymore. Believer should first learn the true meaning of religion and sin to be able to understand such things.

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  25. I am not so sure that demons don't have sex. I distinctly remember being so entrenched in porn etc. and I had a demonic visitation that involved some things unsuitable to mention. So I was unsaved, but that experience was real as I had opened the door to the spirits.

    Your assertion that Christians can not be possessed is correct. I am learning so much how to take others to scripture on this subject. That book Pigs in the Parlour is the most damaging book I have ever read in the area of deliverance.

    It denies the sin nature, our own lusts, and it denies the power of the Cross of Christ. Paul said "we Preach Christ and Him crucified" Jesus paid it all! Our deliverance is in the finished work of Jesus Christ. I encourage anyone who thinks Christians can be possessed to read the Bible and pray, pray pray! God will show you truth.

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  26. Pastor,

    I'm getting full (smile), wonderful article, yes I truly believe a "TRUE" believer indwelt and sealed w/the Spirit of God, cannot be possessed by a demon. However, I believe we can be oppressed and yes defeated by them, when were not doing, what we should be doing, submitting and yielding to the Holy Spirit. For whom without, we could not be victorious.

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