Friday, November 14, 2008

The Role Of The Church & Ministers In Crucial Times

Rom. 16:17-18 ~ "17-Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18-For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

To the modern church, taking a stand for righteousness and calling the people of God to accountability has become "bashing" the church.

In response to the article I set forth on Magic Johnson's Denunciation of Prop. 8, and a similar article done by GCMWatch regarding related issues, the following comments were brought to our attention within the "so called" COGIC Forums on Yahoo. On a more personal note, I'm ashamed that these comments were in a "COGIC Forum" as to indicate (but not necessarily so) that these persons are members of the Church Of God In Christ. My saddnes comes partially because some of the comments wreak of biblical illiteracy. There are 2 comments that were of particular interest.
  • "...And I get you on the warning against false teachers, but I don't recall Paul addressing too many people directly, that he didn't have direct influence over.And many of the sites providing the information usually provide commenting sections that are out of control, just let people go crazy bashing others." ~ todd
It should be noted that neither The Dunamis Word nor GCM Watch have "gone crazy" or has "bashed others" The facts are that discernment and truth has been exercised in asking questions pertinent to current events and answers to questions posed have high implications for the church in general and individuals within the Body of Christ. It should also be noted that these topics and questions are widespread and the information has been made public in which people have exposed their own ideas and beliefs and as such have placed themselves upon the altar of public examination for Saint and sinner alike. In the first comment, noted above, the commenter says that he didn't see in the bible where "Paul addresses(ing) too many people directly"

Let's briefly look at who Apostle Paul addresses and why:

Acts 13:6-11 ~ Paul rebukes and blinds Bar Jesus (Elymas) for trying to stop, interfere and turn away Sergius Paulus from the gospel message and salvation.

Acts 16:18 ~ Paul rebukes and casts the devil out of an unammed woman publically for following his ministry in the wrong spirit and with the wrong intents.

Galations 2:11-14 ~ Paul tells the complete story (also found in Acts 15) of how he had to rebuke both Peter and Barnabas for straddling the fence on issues of salvation dealing with the gentiles and further points out that much of the trouble was because of Peter's indecision on the issue.

1 Cor. 3:1-4 ~ Paul rebukes the whole Corinthian church for being carnal and not living up to their spiritual inheritance.

1 Cor. 4:18-21 through 1 Cor. 5 (Chapter) ~ Paul speaks strong rebuke to the entire church for it's sins and ungodly associations.

1 Timothy 1:19 ~ Hymanaeus & Alexander are called out by name because they departed from the faith, made shipwreck, and were so ungodly that Paul excommunicated them from the church.

2 Timothy 1:15 ~ Phygellus & Hermogenes called out by name for turning away from the Apostle Paul and the gospel message of truth.

2 Timothy 4:10 ~ Demas is called out for "loving this present world" and departing from the faith.

2 Timothy 4:14 ~ Alexander The Coppersmith is called out because he had done "much evil" to Paul
Titus 1:10-16 ~ Paul rebukes the Judaizers who were trying to impose circumcision and the teachings of Moses on gentile believers. He refers to them as being unruly, and deceivers similar to how they criticized the Cretians to be.

Was the commenter right when he said, "I don't recall Paul addressing too many people directly" ? I would agree ONLY IF IT WEREN'T WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

The second comment of note comes from an "opinionator" that sees a political or social scheme and self-motivation behind everything that is said or done in the name of the Lord...WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HIS OWN WORDS:
  • "That's what I say too Princess. Take a gander at the "message" but also look at the one carrying the message to see what "glory" they are getting out of it. This website (Referring to GCMwatch) is no better than that mess G. Craige (Referring to EX Ministries) was doing!!! Don't get mad because other people are prospering in what you THINK you can do-find out where God wants you and keep your tail there!!! I don't have an issue with NOBODY nor do I have an issue with what people do in THEIR house, apartment, shack or shanty. I don't pay the bills there so what they do in it is their business. However, when you start pointing fingers and damning others THAT is when I have a issue. Other than that your business is yours. Just make sure your "closet" is clean before you try to clean somebody else's!!!" ~ Lester Demings
In one fell swoop Mr. Demings (WITHOUT POINTING FINGERS) accuses both GCM Watch and EX Ministries of irresponsible ministry, self glorification, and finger pointing and "damning" others. Then has the INSIGHT to suggest that neither of them know "what God wants of them" and that they are out of place. All this without wondering what's going on in their "shack or shanty" because that's certainly "nobody's business".

Titus 1:15 ~ "5-Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."

What happens when the "shanty" doors come open and bones fall out of the closet and everything is made public knowledge for all to see. Should we point to or look at what we see or merely pretend that what we see is not there? Should the church remain silent while the world and community seeks and looks for direction? Or should we remain complacent and stone-faced in the middle of a serious whirlwind of confusion? The problem is that the man of god must know and be aware of his call. We weren't called to be businessmen, popular, socialites, actors and or movie stars. We were called by god to bring forth truth into a dying world and renew this lost generation through sound preaching, teaching and demonstration of the power of God.

Isaiah 58:1-2 ~ "1-Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 2-Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God."

It would be much more simple and life would be easy if I or anyone speaking out on these issues and others simply would shut up and not say a word. obviously that would be the path of least resistance. It is also the path most often trod by individuals who don't hold the Kingdom of God in high esteem and the word of God as essential for life.

Can true leaders afford to hide when morality within the church and society is being challenged? I think not. This is the time to stand like never before.

Will there be a price to pay for being derelict in our duties and responsibilities in serving the community through the exposition of truth? YES...a price that many will not be able to afford. Only there will be no BAILOUTS and certainly no governmental assistance.

Are the comments real? Unfortunately they are. They certainly show no spiritual insight.

Are truly spiritual insights required? Only if a person was going to criticize another for their observations of calling another to spiritual accountability... ie: YES! If not, who then is irresponsible? Those calling the body of Christ to a higher level of accountability? Or those content in their sins and uncaring as to what the Bible actually teaches about holiness and personal responsibility?

My guess is that you already know the answer to that question?

Habakkuk 2:1-4 ~ "1-I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved. 2-And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 3-For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. 4-Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

Personally, I cannot be strengthened by an absentee leader. If you choose to be served by a Pastor or Bishop whom you must track down to receive insight and strength for the battle, you just may be in the wrong place. It was said that King David, if he were in the right place, at the right time, would have never had the "Bathsheba" experience that led to the death of Uriah and Bathsheba's first unnamed son. If all you can see is the beauty of Ps. 51 as a result then I guess you missed the whole point of the article and we need to pray.

(Once again, please excuse the spelling errors in an earlier version. God bless)


    Supt. Barnett

    I am glad that you addressed those posting that were on COGIC Yahoo Groups. It is amazing how the Saints of God have no problem with our leaders being compromisers of Gods Word and when you expose the actions of these leaders as the bible instructs us, then you are hating, jealous, two faced, and so on. You are also finding more and more preachers in COGIC echoing the sentiments of the the bloggers in the COGIC group. Just this morning, in a class at the Jurisdication Academy for the State that I am in, the instructor who is a Pastor told us that preached messages should not be counterversial, in other words DON'T PREACH AGAINST SIN. Then the instructor went into how Obama acknowledged that homosexuality is wrong according to the bible and something about Obama saying that we must still learn how to work with them. Well, you know and I know Obama did not say that, and if he did say that, he does not believe it. But it is just another attempt to suppress the preaching of issues such as homosexuality, abortion and the like. And if you do come against sin, that makes you a basher. Me and a couple of my friends who are ministers were in Memphis last week for the Convocation and were shocked at how the Saints would respond positively to several of the preachers that spoke and to put this mildly ; did not preach about or against anything. You heard more references to Barrack Obama than Jesus Christ but this was acceptable. I do not see anything wrong with the question being asked about Bishop Blake's stance on proposition 8, he is the Presiding Bishop of the largest Black Pentecostal Church in the US and his church is located in CA. Know, I ask this question often to my friends and others, I myself am not a preacher, but how can a preacher tell the Saints to trust God to make a way for you when you give, or doing these economic times but the same preachers do not trust Christ enough to give them the strength and protection needed to endure the persucution that will arise from preaching against sin and taking a stand for our Savior.

    But I can go on and on about this subject Once again thanks for all of your work in bringing the Saints this information, this information has been very beneficial to me and I also pass this info to others and direct them to your site.

    I would like to encourage you to continue to stand on the wall and fight the good Fight. There are many others who are like minded and are fighting with you here in NC.

    God Bless and I will continue to keep you and others like you in our prayers.

    C. Terry

  2. Brother C.Terry,

    Now, I want to thank YOU for the courage to stand up in your community and continue the good fight of faith, and please keep in mind that you're not deluded, off base, or have the "wrong spirit"'ve got it right and only the Lord will continue to illuminate your eyes further.

    Look, I don't know if you were able to watch the CNN and MSNBC special about Jonestown and Jim Jones but I recommend to EVERYONE reading this blog to watch it, order the tape whatever you have to do. That man took about 1,000 folks to their death all the while clapping their hands, cheering him on, and saying that they were dying with dignity to make a political and spiritual statement. I was in grade school when it happened and remember it then but to look back with what I know and have seen some 30 years later is utterly amazing. I am making it a part of our ministers and Elders in training class to teach what NOT to do and to teach the utter tragic results of bad, unbiblical, ungodly and down right perverse leadership.

    I also plan to use the information gained to teach how to identify the difference between man controlled people and a Christ centered church. we need to know the Pastor's responsibility is to get the relationships in the church toward himself on a godly and biblical track, and NOT an unhealthy "sugar daddy" mode.

    I said all of that to say this...some of these people that think they KNOW what's happening have lost their ever loving minds!

    I am convinced that some people will follow a person TO HELL simply because they were NICE and had a nice PERSONALITY. That is ungodly and that mess must be exposed at all costs...

    I don't see how that can be done without exposing SIN.

    All these spaghetti backed, broke back mountain preachers NEED to go back to the altar and get delived BEFORE they open their mouth one more time. They have no idea what the true call of God is. It is obvious that whatever discernment that they once had has evaporated into thin air.

    So far as Obama is concerned, I have had friends break relationship over this man. That is TOTALLY to our shame. Where is the bond between Saints to 1st make God and HIS word the priority? We have some on this site that favored Obama and I certainly don't criticize them and WILL NOT break fellowship with them because the Body Of Christ is all we have. If we love TRUTH we should be able to seek the truth, speak the truth, agree with the truth, check ourselves in the truth, and continue to press on TOGETHER.

    Obama has said some CRAZY things about the church, theology and Christian issues. I certainly don't think he's the "anti-Christ" but I think the church has a mission to bring TRUTH to this White House instead of the smiley and "yes man" "suck up" posturing that we've seen so far. I believe it's our DUTY to Make Obama be the President that God wants him to be and it's gonna take entering into some deep and profound conversations to do so. I've already placed my little 2 cent in the mix. I don't know if it'll have any impact but my judgement wont be because I didn't try.

    Preaching by it's very nature is controversial. It MUST be controversial. It cannot be done effectively without controversy, because FLESH doesn't like truth and ungodliness unto damnation abounds more and more.

    An anointed preacher is one that stands in the A gap (football language) and breaks the play of the devil down for a loss of yardage. Some of these CATS are on the sideline trying to run plays from a distance and IT JUST WON'T WORK.

    You be encouraged brother. You will see some things in the near future that you never thought that you would see on many fronts. What you receive now will sustain you in this fallout and fallaway that we're about to experience.

    Thank you for spreading the word. By the way I was in Charlotte not long ago (airport) NC is a beautiful place and I hope to come back to spend some ministry time there next year. If so, I'll let you know.

    God bless.

  3. Supt Barnett, thank you for holding fast to the Word of the Lord. There is no safer place and no stronger fortress against the rage of the enemy.

    At the same time, there is no sharper sword to cut the devil's lie in half and destroy his progress in the house of God.

    Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum
    The Word of the Lord endures forever.

  4. The Truth shall set you free. God bless you Pastor. Keep proclaiming the truth.

  5. Amen Pastor Burnett. In total agreement with this particular blog:) I know this is not meant to be funny but "All these spaghetti backed, broke back mountain preachers":) I think it is time now, that we can't focus just on a denomination but Jesus Christ and him crucified. This has always been my issue with COGIC and some other churches because it seemed like man was lifted up more than Jesus. We are to give honor where honor is due, but Bishop/Pope has become like in the place of God in a lot of instances, and a lot of people are taught as such, and think this causes a lot of people to go astray. oGCMwatch, G. Craig Lewis and you are three preachers that just put it on blast and preach the word of God, it is not very pretty. I so many times feel like it is a famine in the land of the word of God and read and listen to you all, and search in my heart and the scriptures whether they be so.

    Also, we will let brotherly love continue. We are not going to fall out over Barack Obama (who is a mere man), that needs guidance and direction and a man of God to speak what thus says the Lord to help lead guide and direct him. I even have to admit this Obama mania is getting a bit much, it is like we (as in the country) are making him into an idol and bordering on idol worship.

    Be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might.

    Pray that I would also grow stronger and make a stand

  6. Oregonsistah~ "I know this is not meant to be funny but "All these spaghetti backed, broke back mountain preachers":)"

    I thought about that after the fact. I guess I won't be quitting my day job anytime soon to become a "king of comedy"--LOL!

    Oregonsistah~ "This has always been my issue with COGIC and some other churches because it seemed like man was lifted up more than Jesus."

    What you witnessed was an unhealthy form of "honoring" the leader.

    The leader has a responsibility to not only teach the people how to honor leadership but to deflect unhealthy forms of honor. That's what's lacking. Too many are plugged into the "attention" that they get from certain groups within the church, not to mention the EZ money they get from people who are more excited over them and their personalities rather than over God.

    I could say a whole lot more on that (y'u-know me) but I'll leave it at that for now.

    God bless and we'll continue in prayer.

  7. VV,

    Thanks for stopping by and I look forward to seeing what you'll offer...I like that so far..."The Truth War."

    Thanks my brother and you keep up the good fight of faith. I feel a blessing on the way.

    God bless.

  8. I hope this doesn't show until you see it.

    Nice post. But the word you use in the title should be "Role" not "Roll"

  9. Melvin,

    Now that was too funny...I had ROLL instead of Role...I'm thinkin' that through because I guess that is how we should "roll"...???

    Don't worry, like I said, I'm not quitin' my day job anytime soon.

    THANK YOU for that. Believe me I am a little more educated than I spell sometimes.(LOL) That cracked me up though...


  10. This man has it right...even though I'm not Roman Catholic. It's time for all Christians to speak out like James Francis Stafford:

    Cardinal at CUA: Obama is ‘Aggressive, Disruptive and Apocalyptic’
    November 14, 2008 by Elizabeth Grden Print This Post
    His Eminence James Francis Cardinal Stafford criticized President-elect Barack Obama as “aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic,“ and said he campaigned on an “extremist anti-life platform,” Thursday night in Keane Auditorium during his lecture “Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II: Being True in Body and Soul.“

    “Because man is a sacred element of secular life,” Stafford remarked, “man should not be held to a supreme power of state, and a person’s life cannot ultimately be controlled by government.”

    “For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden,” Stafford said, comparing America’s future with Obama as president to Jesus’ agony in the garden. “On November 4, 2008, America suffered a cultural earthquake.”

    Cardinal Stafford said Catholics must deal with the “hot, angry tears of betrayal” by beginning a new sentiment where one is “with Jesus, sick because of love.”

    The lecture, hosted by the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family, pertained to Humanae Vitae, a papal encyclical written by Pope Paul VI in 1968 and celebrating its 40 anniversary this year.

    Stafford also spoke about the decline of a respect for human life and the need for Catholics to return to the original values of marriage and human dignity.

    God Bless each and every one of you.

  11. Cardinal Stafford ~ "For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden,"

    Although I generally agree with his sentiments, because Obama's version of Partial Birth abortion is deplorable, and I certainly applaud the Cardinal's standing to address issues, I think he's at least about 8 years too late with that one.

    If ANYBODY in American Presidency should have sent us to the Garden it should have been a fact either one of them and certainly both of them...

    Some folk fight because they percieve that things have just gotten "worse". They're swimming in waters that they haven't had to swim in before...I fight because it's been bad all along, and now we have an opportunity to make a difference.

    Excellent post VV.

  12. By the way...don't get me started on that R.W. Reagan adm. with that "war on drugs" which was really a "war on black America" and the impoverished.

    Now That was a Gethsemane going event...we're still suffering from that fiasco today.

  13. PHB,

    Thank you for your response. Clearly, we have not done enough to address this (and many other serious issues)issue.

    I fear the hour is very late with regards to many of the problems facing humanity today. The reality is, we cannot point at our elected leaders. We can only point to ourselves.

    When Jesus comes to judge the living and the dead, what will we say to Him regarding the slaughter of innocents? What will we say to Him regarding the starving? What will we say to Him regarding the horrible way we treat (and have treated) one another.

    I fear we take His words far too lightly when He says, "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." Luke 12:48

    We have been given wealth, an elected government, and knowlege of the Gospel. We have failed Him miserably.

    Thank you and God Bless you.

  14. V V,

    I wholeheartedly agree my friend. I think we as a church have been absentee so long, until our absenteeism seems normal.

    I agree with the Cardinal, I only ask, ok, where was he when we could have done some groundwork to relieve the problem that we so readily identify today.

    Then to lay it at an elected official's feet as if he will singlehandedly do more damage than we've already allowed by our choice of inaction is something we've got to look at and consider greatly.

    So, once again I appreciate you and your comments and insights, because yes, we've (the church) been given much but have acted too much like a sleeping giant and now if we don't act there's no telling what type of societal morality we'll wake up to tomorrow.

    Be strong my friend and stay on post, we're recruiting and encouraging all the godly soldiers possible for this battle. God bless.

  15. PHB said: "I agree with the Cardinal, I only ask, ok, where was he when we could have done some groundwork to relieve the problem that we so readily identify today." I am sorry for not being clear with my comment relative to not doing enough. It was aimed at the Cardinal and his faith tradition, even more so than others. The Cardinal and his ilk have had a much longer and sustained influence on society and its elected officials, so yes you are correct when saying...where was he when we could have laid some ground work.

    PHB said: "Then to lay it at an elected official's feet as if he will singlehandedly do more damage than we've already allowed by our choice of inaction is something we've got to look at and consider greatly". To clarify, we allowed our elected officials (judges, congress, senate, etc.)to go this other words, it's not their "fault" it's ours. Ergo my point regarding Christ's admonition in Luke 12:48. At second read, we are in total agreement here and saying the same thing.

    To paint a picture, if I may. If we new people were being abused, or murdered, or enslaved in the house next door to ours, I bet most of us on this blessed blog, would not wait for the police to take some action. Yet that's what society has been doing. Yes, some people took action, and paid a great price for doing so. But most people do nothing. Voting for change is too little too late.

    My questions to you Pastor, as a man of God, and one whom I greatly respect (I am being honest with my admiration; your actions of prayer and taking to the streets and City Hall during the murders in your city is/was truly wonderful and admirable), is: is it too late? And if not, what should we do??

    Thank you for this forum. I doubt I would be welcome on Larry King's blog....


  16. Now that was too funny...I had ROLL instead of Role...I'm thinkin' that through because I guess that is how we should "roll"...???

    Hey I did see that but just forgot to drop you a line about it. Looks like you worked it out anyway, lol.
    Yeah, dis how we role. I mean roll. Or is it rolle? Anyway...

    I try not to snip people about misspellings because I figure sooner or later they'll catch it. And if they dont, it doesnt change the power of what they have written.

    But thanks Melvin!


I've switched to real time comments for most posts. Refresh your screen if you post and do not see it right away. Please send me an email if you try to post a comment and cannot do so. Thanks.