Tuesday, June 2, 2009

This DOESN'T Fulfill The Mission Of Christ

The post modern culture has presented some pretty interesting and thought provoking issues. Whether it's issues of sexual practice, abortion or political issues, there seems to be more than a person can shake a stick at.

This year there have been no issues more polarizing than abortion and homosexuality. The outcry on both sides of the issue has been fantastic by itself not to mention the times that major discussions and situations hit and settles in the news.

For example, Sunday May 31st 2009 (Pentecost Sunday) late term abortion Dr., Dr. George Tiller (67) was tragically gunned down during Sunday services at Reformation Lutheran Church where he was serving as an usher. The suspect, a mentally ill man (Scott Roeder-51), who some say claimed to be a part of an activist, defunct, anti-government group called the Freemen, was responsible for taking the life of Dr. Tiller.

The Dunamis Word and New Bethel Ministries without equivocation, totally and fully decries the taking of life whether it be of the lives of the babies of abortion or the medical professionals who perform such operations and provide such services. We REJECT to the fullest any sentiments or extremists views that find it acceptable to engage in criminal practices against medical professionals who preform abortion services. Taking life at any stage of life in a senseless act like this is certainly not ordained or authorized by God in any manner. We further reject the notion that the best way to fight for the right to life is to be engaged in the intimidation and eventual murder of the innocent. We encourage love instead of hate and vigorous and peaceful debate in order to properly, fully and adequately address cultural issues such as abortion and the abortion industry.

While any term abortion is an unacceptable practice, there are certain complication that can occur late term which only a few doctors in the United States are equipped by training to deal with. The results here are tragic and are not without consequence for all the families involved.

Update 6/7/2009: Todd Friel at Wretched reports that Dr. Tiller had performed over 60,000 murders of childern through his profession over his career. Watch his report and response to this murder:
Thank God for Todd's assessment. Extremism, fundamentalism, and radical, vigilante interpretations of truth are NOT what the Lord is calling for in times like these. Abortion has created its share of problems for sure but how one reacts to abortion and the abortion industry can make the difference in helping to change mindsets and ridding ourselves of the bad decisions that lead to such acivity.

On November 22, 2006 Bill O'Rielly.com reported that Dr. Tiller was providing abortions late term to young rape and incest victims. Even if this was the case, there is yet no sanction for this sort of action. This event is greater than Dr. Tiller. This is about living socially, equitably and morally with all persons. A radical fundamentalist only sees one side of the issue and are not open to the fact that killing Dr. Tiller, was not only a criminal act, it was unsanctioned murder, opposed to God's plan to correct social wrong and morally wrong. This act also deprived children and grandchildren of their father and grandfather on in irrational and emotional whim. There are many disagreements that we have over the issue of abortion, but none of those disagreements should lead to bombings, shootings, murder or even physical threats.

How does one know if they espouse radical and fundamentalist views? Usually the mouth is a good indicator of the heart and some say statements like these:

1- You reap what you sew. If he hadn't been killing children he wouldn't have been killed.
2- If he was really in church or saved he wouldn't have been an abortion doctor anyway.
3- God showed him. God's judgement is real!
4- Well at least he won't kill another baby
5- Tiller was a baby killer anyway, good for him.
6- How could he be an abortion Dr. and be a Christian? His church wasn't teaching anything anyway.
7- Sad thing but what more could he expect, 'cause God's not pleased with that.

Some of these suggestions are more difficult than others but these are just some of the sayings that radical fundamentalists will espouse during a tragic times such as this. The true church should realize that we can best fight this battle through prayer, petetion, presenting our case in the public forum and most of all through living and exemplifying the love of Christ. Display love toward the women that seek abortions and the personel that preform them.
Abortion has done it's damage and is doing the damage everyday, but Christians SHOULD NOT add to the fire by killing people because of it and neither should they endorse, encourage or support those who do. As Todd states justice will be served by God himself.
Mt. 5:13-16 ~ "13-Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14-Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15-Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16-Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."



  1. Hey I understand your position on this issue... I am not in favor of anyone taking another's life for any reason.

    However, if unjust people start 'disappearing' like the late Dr. Tiller.... eventually people will catch on and there will be less Bible violating activities...

    For instance, I was listening to Rush Limbaugh on yesterday and he said that the United States imposes its will on other nations through WAR including but not limited to eliminating other conflicting countries. This is the standard of influence that the USA uses on the Globe.

    What we see happening here again is that following the convention of our country, the citizens thereof are taking matters of justice into their own hands...

    Its out of control and may never be controllable~


  2. W,

    I undrerstand what you're saying and thank you for your comment but does that say that "might" makes "right"? I mean do we want to go toward the path that "threat" is the correct way to maintain order and right?

    If we do, then we only need to wait for the wrong person to present their version of "right" and maintain it through threats etc.

    I do understand what you're saying and I hadn't thought about it quite like that previously.

    I still think that the church should condemn such actions however. Thanks.

  3. Pastor what this issue says too me; when ever we as Christians can approve of what happen to Dr. Tiller and we think it's alright...we are in-need of a new hearts because something is wrong with the one we have.

  4. Sister JJbrock,

    AMEN Sistah!

    One argument that I've heard goes like this: "God displaced and killed nations because of their unrighteousness so it if this sort of thing happens for righteous causes it's ok"...

    Yea Sistah, believe that's being preached and used as a "special" allowance for this sort of thing. I mean, I think that's the most twisted type of biblical interpretation in the world BUT, what I call "radical extremists" are following those types of thoughts hook, line, and sinker.

    It's really tragic, because then, those of us who honor God and his word are then "lumped" in together with those radicals.That's why I believe we should speak up and make a difference at all times.

  5. I agree that we should never rejoice when someone is murdered regardless of what he or she have done to others. If we believe that Christ is the avenger then He is the avenger. I do wonder why you would think it is wrong for a Christian to question the salvation of an abortion doctor. Furthermore, he was an usher at his church. I beleive that the church should accept al people BUT I do not agree that the church should place people in a position or ministry with known habitual sin. I understand that God is the judge on who makes heaven or hell but I believe that the bible is clear on the issue of murder.

    So if anyone thinks my heart is wrong for believing that this man is burning in hell then I don't know what to say about that. The bible is clear on what happens to murderers. In fact I listened to this man's comments and he was totally unrepentant concerning his profession. I respect you a great deal and have been reading your post for a while so I am writing that so you can help my heart concerning this issue. What would be wrong about saying that this man cannot be a christian and an abortion doctor at the same time? I strive to be a diligent follower and one who obeys the word of God. If I am wrong in any manner I encourage edification.

  6. Anonymous,

    Thanks for posting. You asked this:
    "I do wonder why you would think it is wrong for a Christian to question the salvation of an abortion doctor."

    Because that wasn't all that he did and from reports it prepresented a small portion of his practice. I may be wrong but those are the reports I saw. Now O'rielly had some interesting facts and his piece seemed to say that this guy was a predatorial abortion Dr. seeking almost whomever he could and especially young ladies for abortions. It would seem that he focused on children that were a result of rape and incest. he must have though he was doing the world a favor by getting rid of those children. I didn't see O'rielly's type of report anywhere else.

    Now, IF these ladies are going to seek this type of abortion, I would rather them see someone who is specialized and experienced. I think it's HORRIFFIC and I think his church MAY have let him down by not having a harder line on these sort of practices BUT, yet his profession is not illegal. It's certainly immoral to make this somethign that is done on a regular basis or as a part of services offered. At least a portion of what he did was immoral in it's nature, but he could have saved some of the women's lives also as some of these ladies were seeking him for real medical necesseties.

    This is really tough but that's why I don't just lambast him for being an abortion Dr.

    Let's discuss this further. I believe it's something we should look at more indepth.

    Very Good and thanks.

  7. I added Todd Friel's take on this situation also. I hadn't seen his response before I put together my article but I was pleased that there was another witness who interpreted this similar to me in this case.

    Todd's take was that the church was irresponsible for not teaching and demanding that the Dr. quit performing abortions. He also stated that hell was the Dr's home (a statement that seems plausible but I'm not willing to commit to just yet) and that the murdered was wrong to kill him, a point which we fully agree.

    I feel that the church was derilict also, but what should a church do when a position has been taken and a member continues what they do, and what's more the member IS NOT in a leadership capacity? This is a sticky situation.

    Let's get some more convo going on this one. Thanks and God bless.

  8. Thank you for commenting but what should the church say concerning does who murder. I understand that abortion is legal but is it God legal? I mean will the preacher who performs homosexual marriages be alright with God too? Homosexual marriage is legal in six states now I believe. What will the believer do? Will we stand for righteousness? I am not happy about this man’s death because he leaves behind a grieving family. What I am concerned with also is how the devil could come into a church with power? Granted I know that he devil visits most churches every Sunday BUT I see a pattern where there was been church shootings. If you investigate also you will see a pattern of unholiness.

    Regardless of if the mother’s life was in danger or not I strongly don’t believe that an abortion should be performed. If we begin rationalizing that sin then we could continue to go down the list. I see that you take a stand against unrighteousness so I am trying to understand your train of thought on this issue.

    I just needed to share this additional bit of information.
    I am in Orlando right now. I had no idea that Disney was sponsoring a gay pride event. We have three children so we could not change our plans but this is a taste of what will come. We continued on with our plans and are having a wonderful time despite seeing two men and two women holding hands. I ask pray quietly and ask the Lord to speak to their hearts.

    BTW, my name is Meka.

  9. Meka,

    Thanks for commenting. Your view and question is highly appreciated.

    Let me try to outline my vantage point a little better regarding this issue and the Dr.

    1- I believe that abortion at whatever stage is wrong. That DOES NOT address the issue of need. What I do know is that based on the numbers, abortions that are as a result of "essential medical distress" where the mother's life is in danger is a minutely small percentage of these type of situation. I can't be in favor of the right to life if I am not also in favor of the Mother's right to live also. Example: it's like killing or murder. Murder is a type of killing that is not permitted or condoned within the scriptures, while it is obvious that other types of "killing" is permissable. I mean the Cities of Refuge were places where someone who had "killed" in self defense could find retrat for their actions. Now did that make "killing" any less condemned scripturally? I think not. Todd points this out in his evaluation of this situation also.

    2- I have received and yet read conflicing reports over what the Dr. actually did in his profession. 60,000 is a LOT of abortions. it sounds like this was his Full time job...however I've received reports that the Dr. only did this "in response" to medical necessity...O'Rielly says otherwise...who's right??? I need some additional information regarding this.

    3- I think everyone agrees that the church failed here in some sense. however the organizaion that he is a part of reluctantly admits that abortion may be necessary and unavoiadable at times. It seems "wishy-washy" but I must look at that on a deeper level than just the surface. (refer to my answer in 1)

    4- Is the Dr. is Hell as a result? He MAY be, but if you're a strict monergist like the church that he belongs to, there's no way that judgement can be made...he "could be" one of the "elect". He was serving his church and evidently had a good relationship and clean conscience. I don't understand that, but I admit I don't have enough inforamtion.

    4- The parrallel that you draw to homosexuality and preachers marrying them is correct. In both cases the actions would be legal under the law (at least in 6 states) Does that make the actions right?...BY NO MEANS. So we agree. however, the dr. wasn't in a leadership capacity of the church...I think that point can't be overlooked.

    So I think what you see in my commentary is a caution to make "straight line conclusions" as to why this happened.

    I believe this...He will be judged justly and righteously and I believe that the murder of the innocent will be one of the judgements that he is accorded. regardless of church position, I believe he had the obligation to make sure his actions were godly and representative of biblical moral values. The only thing is I have heard and cannot point to any sort of rationalle or conversation that he had with anyone over that type of isse.

    Thanks for the inquiry. keep 'em coming and to anyone, if I'm not being definitive enough for you please state such. I'm trying to give a rational answer but this siutuation is a mess. I'd be the first to say that.

    God bless.

  10. Super,
    Thanks. I do follow your logic. God give a fair and righteous judgment and that is for sure. I definitely enjoy your commentaries and look forward to hearing more from you.

  11. Psalm 14: 2-3; The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
    3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one"
    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    This situation has me thinking about the punishment I deserved for my sins against God and man, and where I would be if it wasn't for Jesus shining on me and and leading me to repentance (example, Paul's Damascus experience, see below) Jesus came to seek and to save the lost.

    I believe the failure of the church and we that name the name of Christ, is that we focus on the symptons rather than the fallen nature of man and why we are in need of a Savior and fulfilling the great commission.

    Peter tried to take matters into his own hands, and cut off the ear of the Centurion; Jesus did not condone that action, and put his ear back on.

    I don't believe God condones the killing of the Doctor, and can't say if the man is in hell, we don't know if he was purposing in his heart to discontinue his acts. His killing was a self righteous act. Vengeance is the Lord's he will repay and we shouldn't fret ourselves because of evil doers or be envious against the workers of iniquity...

    The scriptures below focus on how Paul persecuted the church and God's people until he had the life changing experience. It is God's goodness and mercy that leads us to repentance.

    Acts 26:7-21
    7Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

    8Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

    9I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

    10Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

    11And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

    12Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

    13At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

    14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

    15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

    16But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

    17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

    18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

    20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.

  12. I am seriously rethinking my position on the murder of this man. If this man did what Gosnell and now Karpen did in their practices, murdering live babies in the most atrocious manner possible (murder period will do) they really dont deserve any mercy doing those things in exchange for cash. They are really Abortion Prostitutes HORRIBLE!!!!!


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