Dead at age 42, Zachery Tims Jr. was one of the modern churches most prolific personalities. He wrote a book (selling roughly 23,000 copies) which was geared toward teaching people how to be spiritually free and wealthy. He himself was financially well off. In fact according to divorce papers filed by ex-wife Riva Tims, Zachery once earned about $33,400 a month in 2009, owned a $2.2 million Windermere home, spent $1,500 a month on clothing, had $437,300 in the bank, and drove both a 2004 Hummer and a 2008 BMW. He was gracious enough to support the church with a $3,500 a month tithe too.He was and international minister and regular guest host on TBN sharing his vision of God to potentially over 100 Million homes worldwide almost daily. He was the founder and pastor of the 8,000 member New Destiny Christian Center church in Apopka, Fl. that engaged regularly in such ministries as
"food, clothing, personal toiletries, haircuts, medical screening, and a job fair, and toys for children at Christmas,"
Not to mention a full schedule of services designed to mesmerize and inspire.
Without a doubt, there were and will continue to be many good things that will be said about Pastor Tims. There was so much ministry to yet be accomplished and so much life yet to live. On the surface the horizon seemed bright and the potential was yet undiscovered. On the surface, at least for many.
The Last Testimony
In life we write our own eulogy. TO deny and turn our heads to certain aspects of our being and life's decisions is to deny the person and individual that we choose to be and reconstruct a person that suits one own selfish needs. It is amazing that this is the plight and direction of the Christian community and especially its leaders. For example, look at Creflo Dollar stating that Eddie Long was his "friend" and that friendship was greater than the "wreck" he had. Remember that "wreck" that cost $15 to $25 Million to settle that had over 400 counts against Long and his assorted ministries??? "Friend". Then we remember Paula White stating that she and Randy were simply at an impasse and ready for a new "season" which included walking away from their marriage announcing this at a weekly bible study as if, it was a nothing to worry about...Then there was the infamous Swilley who simply stated that he had become a homosexual while pastoring and that the church was better because of it. Well the Christian leaders have shown up again to make lemonade out of what is otherwise a big fat sour lemon. The death of a pastor who left his wife and 4 kids (one with Cerebral Palsy) to pursue sex with a stripper (possibly two) and who was found dead in a hotel with a "powdery substance" in his pant pocket last Friday August 12th morning.
Quite naturally this leads to a few questions:
"W" Could Mean, "What" Went WRONG?
What went wrong? Certainly God has all power in his hands and nothing lasts forever...not even sin!
You see, Pastor Tims was blessed by God and certainly came a long way. His children certainly deserve to remember their father for what he overcame in life and according to him he overcame a lot. However, there were some glaring inconcistencencies that demanded a much better explanation from a Christian leader even if the Christian community, his elite preacher associates and church, didn't care.
Pastor Tims was found laying in the middle of the floor in Room 3711 of the W Hotel in New York's Times Square. The hotel is certainly one of "elite" status situated for those who seem to have "arrived". Here is an excerpt of self description from the hotel's website:
"Whether traveling for business or pleasure, this playful New York City hotel is a refreshing mix of high-tech hospitality and glamorous urban living. No matter what inspires you, W New York indulges your passion."
Indulging Passions
Although it can't be said for sure at this point, there are several conflicting stories already emerging over why Tims was even in New York. Some have claimed that he had an engagement to speak at a church. Others are claiming that he had a business meeting and others are claiming that it was a combination of both. All reports seem to suggest that Tims was supposed to have left New York last Thursday to be back in Orlando, but Friday AM, not only was he still in New York, but he was also dead.
"W" Could Mean, "Why" So Much Silence & Secrecy?
Under normal circumstances, even before the advent of cellular phones, news and information would nearly travel around the world in a matter of hours after an event. In this case news of Pastor Tims death sat for not just 24 hours from public disclosure, but for over 48 hours from public disclosure.
Evidently there has already been some damage control and some internal maintenance done on this one...Remember, under normal circumstances this pastor would have been scheduled to be in his own pulpit SUNDAY AM. He was not in the pulpit of another church last Sunday (Aug. 14th) but the public was not notified of this until MONDAY Aug. 15th. What am I saying? I am saying that the leadership of New Destiny Christian Center was well aware of their pastor's plight and demise yesterday Sunday Aug. 14th but did not disclose to the public and somehow got New York officials to agree to privacy of the issue. That leads to the next question
"W" Could Mean, "What" Was That In His Pocket?
According to multiple confirmed reports there was a ""white powdery substance" found in an envelope in Tims right short pant pocket. All available sources say that initial toxicology reports were inconclusive and that there will be more a more extensive analysis done over the next couple of weeks on the cause of death. Remember it has already been 48 hours since he was found and SOMEBODY already knows what that "substance" was.
"W" Could Mean, "Who" Else Was In The Room?We should keep in mind that although none of the current reports indicate that there was foul play, there are several signs that make it appear very difficult to believe that Zachery was alone.
Proverbs 6:26-27 ~ 26-For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life. 27-Can a man take fire in his bosom, and
his clothes not be burned?"
 |
| Riva Tims |
OK, Zachery left his wife in 2007 for at least one stripper. When I say left, I mean that he broke the bond of holy matrimony (at least he was caught) ie: he wasn't going anywhere, he was content to commit whordom and continue to pastor and appear on TBN. It was his wife that brought things to a conclusion. Ooh yea, did I mention that he left her for a stripper? Or two? Remember, this was being done at the height of his church building and TBN appearing efforts...OK, we need to see this, because gospel singer Deitrick Haddon tweeted to say that Zachery Tims did a work "well done" in the sight of God and that God had called him home...It was a well done MESS! OK, let's look at this...
- In 2008 it is revealed that Tims had multiple affairs including one with a stripper which he reveals that he actually began to be in relationship with approximately a year prior in 2007. So for a year he had been seeing and having sex with a stripper all while pastoring and appearing on TBN.
Question: How does a pastor begin to go to strip clubs or meet up with strippers unless he either met her outside the strip club scene and has decidedly and deliberately planned to cover it up? I mean there is no way that this can be done by accident. This is planned activity.
- In Nov. 2008 Riva RIGHTLY files for divorce based on Tims "multiple and repeated extra-marital sexual affairs."
So not only was the stripper front and center, but there were other relationships that accumulated. Remember, during the time of their 15 year marriage, Zachery and Riva also had 4 children (one, who is a special needs child with cerebral Palsy)
- While the kids are young and the family is in need of his attention, Tims leaves his wife and family to pursue extramarital sex with at least this stripper and Lord knows who else.
It is unlikely that Tims was alone and that noone knows what happened. I am interested in what the hotel's security cameras will reveal. No doubt there was probably and exit from his room at a certain time before his body was found Friday AM.
This could answer why silence was allowed at least temporarily.
"W" Could Mean, "What" In The World Is Wrong With The Church ?
Crouch, Pearson, Haggard, McClendon, Bentley, Weeks, Bynum, White, Long, Paulk, Shuller, Tilton , Lamb (to name a few)
Unfortunately, we have another mega church pastor, personality and "Christian Leader" to add to this list of those who's sins have found them out. Tims, may have been a good man and may have done many good things, but he was also one who abandoned his family to pursue his own self interests of sexual impropriety, and lived in an ungodly fashion and manner at the height of his service for God.
These acts violate everything that scripture states that is valuable so far as sanctity of relationships is concerned and the holiness of God is concerned. What has been done is that a new standard has been created...a new God that allows sins and has no view of righteousness or standard of true holiness...everyone and every thing is on the same level to this new church and the new idol worshippers.
Just think of this, the membership of New Destiny Christian Center sat and took it all in, allowing their former first lady to not only be cheated on but also fired and put out of her house because she caught her husband multiple times and decided that enough was enough. All the while his ministry associates and friends around the country did was sit silently and basically say, "do you".
"W" Could Mean "Will" Someone Have To Pay For Not "Warning" This Man Long Ago?
Ezekiel 33:8 ~ "When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."
You see, PIMPS like those that I have written about on this blog in previous articles are only interested in headlines and making themselves seen and known. They are PRETENDERS, trying to fit in where they do not belong because they do not have an inner deliverance. They have not poured themselves out before God, nor sought HIS ways. They are the ones that have damaged Christianity and what it means to the world. They are the salt that has lost its savor and is only good to be trampled under the foot of men. The pretenders are of every denomination and every persuasion, living after the flesh and self satisfaction.
I wonder, just how many "associates" and so called "friends" that Tims knew during this life, and believe me, he knew them all, will pay for not helping to right or correct this man while he was in his rather obvious and open sin condition? How many will be held accountable for not sending a rebuke and telling him that he can't have his sins of whoredom and God simultaneously. Who told him that sin could be managed in ministry and that sexual sins wouldn't ultimately lead him right back to drugs?
Where was the accountability?
- After his divorce in 2009 Tims sat himself down for his indiscretion for about three months as a disciplinary and restoration measure and method at teh guidence of an ecumenical council of elders and leaders.
Disciplinary measure??? Was this a repentance before God and man for defiling the marriage, putting an innocent spouse out and trying to bankrupt her and leaving his children that we're all being encouraged to pray for now through tweets and messages from many of those same spaghetti backed, week-kneed leaders who didn't care a DIME about the children while their father was alive!!!
No they didn't care. If they did they would have tried to make their father better while he was alive and able to do better for his children and for God! Why go through a show and a big display now, pretending that you have any concern about such a "great leader" that has been lost, or for his children?...Remember, none of this played out in private or before his ministry took off. It all took place at the same time that Tims was being praised and paraded for his great works and high anointing of being able to build so much in such a short amount of time...He was in and out of all the mega conferences and NONE stopped one time to help him get it right...They certainly didn't care for Riva or what she had to say about anything.
What I can conclude is that this modern church HAS NO CLUE ABOUT WHO JESUS IS! That is a sad shame.
One of Tims members said the following about him:
"He was a man who was human just like anybody else,"..."But he's done more good than harm."
"Human like everyone else", "done more good than harm"...
OK, lets try to remember that when his children, grow up, remember how this man treated his wife and threw all of the goodness of God into the trash for the pursuit of sex with strippers and otter illicit lovers...Lets use that same standard of "more harm than good" when others that are effected negatively by the unrepentant sins of this minister act out rejecting the church for its rank hypocrisy and deceit from the pulpit to the back door.
Just remember that a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump! (Gal. 5:9, 1 Cor. 5:6)
Blessed!
ONE failure DOES NOT describe nor define a persons life neither does ONE success, however living IN sin or being hypocritical in one's lifestyle does define the integrity of the individual.
ReplyDeleteAll these "power conferences" that thus man was a part of and all the elite ministers that he was with, he should have been delivered certainly faring far better in the struggle.
Many are afraid of the topic because we think, that this is casting judgement upon the dead etc...this man has LIVED his life and all that can be said has been said...we can only look at what he left and take an honest and open assessment so we won't reduplicate teh same mess...
Big ministry DOES NOT equate to big God, nor the approval of God. Small ministry doesn't either, so please don't get it twisted. Everyone MUST live according to biblical precepts and God has commanded, not merely requested, that we live holy!
He wrote his eulogy, I'm just reading it from what he wrote. Don't like it? You can PRETEND all day that he was something and somebody else, that's OK, but what is, is what is.
Great article Pastor! I knew something was strange about the timing of the news reports. I could not figure out why we found out so late. I knew there was much more to this story than met the eye.
ReplyDeleteI believe that God has used this man to warn those that knew all along what was going on. How many of his "friends" stroked and coddled him through his sin? God will NOT be mocked! You are so correct in stating that this modern church has no clue about Who Jesus is! My former pastor, who was also caught on tape in a similar situation, was a regular speaker for and a friend of ZT.
This is not the time to cover anything, but a time to bring the light of God's word to expose the things that are in the dark. I pray that those that are accomplices to this whole mess will repent and follow Jesus Christ today!
This is a mess that caught up with the one causing the mess, I keep telling folks about the holiness that The LORD is calling for, the same holiness without no man shall see the LORD, and I’m called a works righteousness man. But I refute this by using Ephesians 2:10;
ReplyDeleteEph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We can’t fool everybody although we may try and fool the masses, by being fine orators and having answers to all questions, but if you are not a doer of what you know, you only deceive yourselves!!
Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
I’m going to keep saying this no matter who defriend me, turn their collective backs on me or try and outwit me with their abilities of great gab!
This is a sad story, but it’s Holiness or Hell, like the saints of old would say. That man died on my birthday, oh well!
Excellent commentary! You are the first one I've come across to speak on the 'real' issue at hand concerning the late Zachary Tims. I've read so many comments on blogs, etc, and basically people are 'excusing' Zachary Tims' sins (behavior), by making statements such as, "Oh, he's jsut human", or, "He did a lot of good works", or "He had a good heart". I'm just astounded at how scripturally illiterate the masses are! Doesn't anybody "Study to shew thyself approved..." anymore? God's Word is sooo true about these end times, folk have just left God, (smh), yet still in the "church" (i.e. the organization). Zachary Tims should have been sat down a looong time ago. He did not need to minister to others; instead, he needed to be ministered to. Why weren't 'elders' in the faith appointed to watch over him (no, I'm not talking about that 'spiritual covering' nonsense), I mean as a mentor, an elder in the faith, to help him. You are sooo right, his friends/acquaintences cared nothing about him (as a matter of fact, I'm of the opinion many of these 'so-called' preachers and leaders care nothing about the congregations either). This is so sad, but I really believe God is getting fed up with these folk 'playing' with holiness. God has started pulling the covers back to expose the evil. My plea today is simple - - - > GET RIGHT 'CHURCH' [i.e. the 'called out ones', the 'chosen of the most high']. Amen and amen.
ReplyDeleteSupt,
ReplyDeleteVery thorough commentary. I shared with my Mother today the news of Tims' passing. I found out yesterday and couldn't understand why no one in the church apparently had any clue prior to a couple of days ago.
Certainly there is more than what meets the eye that has transpired. Life is but a vapor. No one is invincible and our leaders must realize that the Lord has called home many outstanding christian witnesses in the past. No one is exempt, for the Bible instructs us that we all have an appointment with death, and then the judgment.
We pray for his children, his family, and the church. The turn of our focus back towards Christ needs to happen at once. All too often we have placed our trust, faith, and confidence in man. The end result is that we are often let down. It is only when our leaders fall that many of them will tell you to not "look on us".
As my good friend from Florida shared with me on last evening, "your sins will find you out". You are correct in that we live our eulogy. Nothing can preach your life better than what you did with it. No eulogist can preach you into heaven nor hell. Yet, we have control over where we will spend eternity.
Choose life.
The problem is that I wonder do these leaders actually even believe the bible? I mean I argued with atheists on various atheist sited for about a space of 3 years consistently and one of the things they point out is the alarming and amazing percentage of Christian ministers who preach the word every Sunday, but do NOT believe it at all.
ReplyDeleteNow, in order to live like this, one would have to NOT believe anything about the judgement of God. One would have to believe that the bible is fictitious in nature and that there was really no reason to believe that any of the things recorded in it could happen or ever happened...
That's what I read in Jakes, Haddon's and other Tweets regarding this man and his sins...that's what I understand as you all have gone to other blogs and read a little dainty, non-critical assessment of these events...
It seems that too many of these folk aren't ready to deal with any truth...especially biblical truth.
Supt.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your stating what nobody else would touch. His death was certainly a mystery; and it seems he had enough money to keep some people quiet before and after this death; people in high places who won't tell the truth...the love of money is indeed the root of all evil.
I am so glad about what you said; the number of members and the size of your church does not equate spirituality or the depth of one's walk with God. I think Tims is one of the casualities of the prosperity/sucess gospel--and I'm sure this false gospel machine will keep on churning despite his death.'
But you know I was thinking Monday, when I heard about his testimony on CNN of how he came to Christ, through murder and drug charges that this brother had some serious snares...and suddenly he's a minister and pastor...seriously?
He is a casualty of a gospel that didn't save him and couldn't save him from this past--a spiritually bankruipt doctrine that unfortunately sheds an unfavorable light on those who say that Christ saves. I would hate to know who else adn what else is going on behind them church scenes/screens.
One other thing--he might have been called to preach, but this brother needed deliverance and accountability early on...as my mother would say, who lived in the early COGIC years, which included her pastor leaving his church for a woman. She would say, if you are a minister and deciding to shame God; judgment will come quickly, whether you repent or not--just a fact of life. They won't be around long or they'll suffer their latter years out...and I can think about so many....if a preacher dies young; it is the judgment of God---whatever they had been doing from Simmons, Curlin, MLK and so on
Pastor's and bishops who are supposed to be leading people need to realize they aren't like a regular pew member. Not saying if he was, he'd be any more right, but they are held to a much higher standard because of their position.
ReplyDeleteHere we go with some more "associates"
ReplyDeleteI'm just now looking at some of the news from agencies on the subject. This is what I found:
"Today my heart is grieved over the loss of my spiritual son and long time friend and associate, Pastor Zachery Tims,"~pastor Paula White on her Facebook page
"long time friend and associate"...OK Paula. Well, that kinda lends credence to why she was powerless to help him with his marriage now doesn't it?
Further report:
"Tims' church, New Destiny Christian Center, will hold a public viewing of the body this Friday, between 3 to 7pm EST, the church said. A funeral will be held at the First Baptist Church of Orlando will follow.
Tims, 42 years old, was found dead with a plastic envelope containing a white powdery substance police believe to be narcotics, authorities told WSJ."~International Business Times 8/17/2011
"Narcotics"...now the "police believe it to be" narcotics...So I guess those CSI swabs are coming in handy in a slowly developing kind of way.
Here's what's happening in Central FL.
"More than 40 central Florida pastors who knew him held a memorial service for him Tuesday.
They told the Orlando Sentinel they were mourning the loss of a creative and charismatic colleague.
Tims was found dead in a New York City hotel room on Friday.
Hotel staff had to break through the door to get in after Tims didn't check out and didn't respond to them.
Several media outlets have reported police sources as saying they found a a small envelope filled with a white powdery substance in Tims' pocket.
His friends are saying his life shouldn't be defined by how he possibly died."
Wait a minute...how he possibly died? So don't deal with or mention the truth, just create a fantasy or a fictitious person...No wonder the atheists believe like they believe, looking at the modern Christians gives no hope!!! Let's continue:
Tims had a long-time struggle with drugs before turning his life over to God.
ReplyDeleteHe started New Destiny Christian Center in 1996 with only a few members and it grew to be one of the Orlando areas largest churches.
In recent years he admitted to cheating on his wife and voluntarily stepped down as the churches pastor.
He went through counseling at that time and worked to get his life back on track then later stepped back into church leadership."~CBN News 8/17/11
OK, he worked hard for 3 months???? OK, then just "stepped back into church leadership" ...where do we even begin???
Now, talk about "juice"...Even congresswomen speak for Zachery Tims and know where he was, or where he was supposed to be, but they still don't know who he was supposed to be talking to...Look at this:
ReplyDelete"The Florida megachurch leader who was discovered dead in his Times Square hotel room on Friday was in New York for a speaking engagement and meetings, an Orlando-area congresswoman said Tuesday.
Rep. Corrine Brown said the Rev. Zachery Tims Jr. was "preparing" to preach in the New York area last week but she didn't know where he had planned to speak or whom he had met in the city. She said Mr. Tims had also traveled to California, Chicago and Tampa, Fla., in recent weeks for meetings and appearances.
He was to fly to Texas on Thursday, authorities said.
"He was always speaking somewhere, that is not very unusual at all," said Ms. Brown, who said she regularly attended his services at New Destiny Christian Center in Apopka. "He was very much in demand."
Mr. Tims, 42 years old, was found dead in his hotel room Friday with a plastic envelope containing a white powdery substance police believed to be narcotics, authorities have said. An autopsy was inconclusive, and authorities are awaiting the results of toxicology tests.
New York City police declined to comment further Tuesday. Mr. Tims's family couldn't be reached for comment." ~Sophia Hollander Wall Street Journal 8/17/2011
My cousin is a Il. State Rep, but not even she knows where I will be and when!!! That is too fantastic.
Well, if you got it like that...WOW!
Florida megachurch pastors Zachery and Riva Tims ended their 15-year-marriage in late July, two years after it was discovered that Zachery Tims had an affair with an exotic dancer he met in Paris.
ReplyDeleteThe Timses started New Destiny Christian Center (NDCC) in a hotel ballroom in 1996, and grew the Orlando-area church to more than 7,500 members. But in October 2007, Zachery Tims stood before the congregation and said he had committed "an indiscretion" and would be stepping down to seek healing.
He returned to the pulpit three months later, after beginning counseling with a group of ministers including Bishop Joseph Garlington, pastor of Covenant Church in Pittsburg; Bishop Harold Ray, senior pastor of Redemptive Life Fellowship in West Palm Beach, Fla.; and Bishop Nicholas Duncan-Williams of Ghana.
Many members left the independent charismatic church in late 2007 after Judy Nguyen posted details of her affair with the pastor on the Internet. In an e-mail interview with Charisma, Nguyen, who met Tims when he visited the men's club in Paris where she worked,said the long-distance affair lasted from August 2006 to October 2007.
Riva Tims, 38, also left the church and filed for divorce in 2008. The couple share joint custody of their four children.
In a written statement to Charisma, Tims, 40, said he has been involved in counseling since the affair became public.
"I submitted myself to an ecumenical counsel of clergy that came into my ministry and ran the spiritual operations while I submitted myself to a counseling and ministry facility for several months out of state," he stated, adding that he is "still involved with monthly counsel."
Tims said he never meant to harm his family. "It was never my intention to hurt anyone, and over this reality I have spent many days seeking God's grace," he said. "I am grateful for the love my family continues to extend to me as an individual and as a child of God." ~2009 report from Charisma Mag.
Sorry, you are misinformed. News swirled around about his death Sunday NOT Monday. Thats when I found out. You also seem highly suspicious.. why dont you wait for facts before spreading things. Maybe I'm wrong, but you also sound a tad bit jealous. Wonder if you'll post this?..Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteAs you rant on with your accusations just remember, surely its coming back to you. as the word of God reads in Matthew 7:2 - For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
ReplyDeleteInstead of you spreading love, you would rather spread viciousness.
Now is the time for you to show God's love, which is one reason why some people turn to drugs..because they can't turn to judgmental church folk ..especially those with a position. Chew on that once a day and hopefully you see the error in your ways.
Now if that isn't pitiful...out of all the information delivered they said I was wrong because the news was spread Sunday as opposed to Monday and, me telling what is PUBLIC information makes me "jealous" and ultimately judged by God...
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of illogical, kindergarten thinking is that??? Not even worth my time!
Grab a bible, GET and understanding...better yet...GET salvation and stop worshiping men. That's why this gentleman went to hell...people like you helped send him instead of helping him be right!
Y'u-know HYPOCRITES and IDIOTS are something else...
ReplyDeleteWhere was all this "bleeding heart" mercy when Riva was getting cheated on by her husband with a stripper and "multiple" others?
Where was it at when she was being fired from the church that she HELPED establish along with him simply because she demanded that her husband live up to biblical standards and his calling???
Where was that "judgement" when she and her children (one with special needs, needing BOTH parents) were being ABANDONED by their father, while he was visiting strippers in Paris and appearing on TBN talking about how "free" he was?
The church said, "let the will of the Lord be done"!!!
I am persuaded these people have lost their ever living minds!!!
I think this is a seasoned and balanced insight into this situation. We keep seeing these men (and women) rise to fame but they are not representing Christ. These are the kingdoms of men and they shall not stand. If you prop a dagon up in God's face, he will knock it down.
ReplyDeleteI never got into the Zachery Tims mania that many church folk had. I always felt he was superficial and his "messages" didnt resonate spiritually with me.
Its sad and tragic but God is not mocked. The truth will come out sooner or later and it will be ONE MORE WARNING to these church hirelings to leave the sheep alone before God slays you in the most degrading way.
PS: Did you notice that Clint Brown was out in full force running cover too? Check out the details of his divorce. Funny how these folks all run in the same group.
And this is a message to to Pimp Daddy Central. As you see your wicked "sons and daughters" fall before the entire world, dont think your time isnt coming. You have spawned this wickedness and God will not forget that you pushed and coached them into this secret money-fame driven rebellion of the truth.
Pastor, my heart really aches for the Tims family, and the body of Christ as a whole. Without question these are praying times! I also believe that at times like these when there's TRAGEDY that's also possibly combined with SCANDAL, in the midst of all the typical knee jerk responses like...
ReplyDelete"nobody's perfect, you can't judge, just pray, and let him that is without sin, cast the first stone",
There has to be men and women of God that are not affraid to keep the milk in the refridgerator, and bring out the meat and address the body of Christ honestly in love. I commend Pastor Burnette for being one of the few that will address this on a national even international level.
Sadly what most black churches WON'T DO is allow this misfortunate tragedy, and the good, the bad and the ugly concerning Pastor Tims to become a TEACHABLE MOMENT privately in their congregations.
Its much easier to sweep things like this under the rug and just talk about how big his church was, how many members he had, the conferences and the cars etc etc etc.
Exactly. These new age pharisees definitely have their sheep trained, even in death gonna defend them til the end!
ReplyDeleteBut then they KNOW without a doubt he is dancing with St. Peter inside the pearly gates for all the good he did despite his sins. But St. Peter is a Catholic myth, and if he is in that 'heaven', he is not in the right place. Amen.
For me, I look at history, anytime a preacher has been found in a hotel, living or dead, it has not been good...
Jimmy Swaggart, hotel room
Jim Bakker, hotel room
Derrick Hutchins, hotel room (speculating)
So when I heard the first reports I said, uh oh ...
Tims is gone, his children left to mourn and the mother left to give an accurate account of the man their father was, and they do with it what they will.
"Zachery's death may have caught us by surprise, but it has not taken God by surprise," Riva Tims, the ex-wife of the Florida pastor, said as the congregation gathered.
That is true for everyone but I feel a double en tundra in her words.
CSI techs can find arsenic in the bones of a dead body years after death. Even if they tripped and broke their neck, the arsenic WAS KILLING them as well. How long after the naked photos, sexts, sex tapes, medical reports of venereal diseases, illegitimate kids, divorces, and remarriages of all these "men and women of God" are discovered until our brothers and sisters start to see their leaders for who they really are?
No one said being misinformed makes you jealous.. it can simply be heard in the way you write when you talk about the things he had and accomplished... so first all.. keep things in perspective and stop trying to twist my words into a lie when its obvious, that is not why I said you "sounded a tab bit jealous"
ReplyDeleteHis death was CONFIRMED on Sunday..so get it right..before you raise the eyeballs of suspicion.
Just because he made money in business means nothing. Some people make money and dont even receive a salary from the church.
The issue is the self hating Willie Lynch Negroes who are just mad that they can pry $30 away from their stingy parishioners (because they dont know how to teach them anything besides suspicion and damnation)..let alone get 30k a month.
Thank God we aren't saved by men.. we'd all be doomed. You are the one who needs to grab a bible..and study some scriptures on Love and grace.. seems you have a few loonies who back up anything you say. Probably some religious nuts who know nothing more than what you tell them because they don't read themselves..because if they did, they would see how much you err.
And dont try for a second to judge me dude.. i have salvation, but maybe you dont think no one is saved but you. A bunch of self righteous nuts.. who carry on the tradition of the Sadducees and Pharisees and can't spread Gods love because of their own wickedness.
Many have more skeletons in their closet than a graveyard. Oh my bad, you're perfect. You're already their. you've "ARRIVED" .. yeah right. And you really think you walk in the ways of Jesus? What a pitiful shame..you yourselves are SO deceived.
Well, how about you build a youth center, buss homeless people to church and then feed them, give away cars, help people with down payments on their homes, or give away a home.. I see you back biting post didn't mention none of the good that man did. So it is obviously, you little blog post in which I only read the top portion, was not balanced.
For you to bring up his past sin shows where your maturity level is. That god for him, when he repented of those sins, God cast them into the sea of forgetfulness. its silly humans who keep swimming in their trying to bring them out to strengthen their argument.
what if God kept bringing up all your sin from 2010..Oh let me guess. You did no wrong in 2010.
Please.. dont let you position go to your head. YOU pick up a bible and stop with the religious huffing and puffing and actually teach something. Somebody had to tell you. You dont know when your time is. You could be next. Make sure your heart is right, full of Love.
Oh and for him Going to hell? You were no where in that room before he left this earth. You dont know what he and God discusses before he took his last breath..but your self righteous thinking has you so messed up, now you want to play God.
May the REAL God have mercy on your soul.
People stop listening to these blind shepherds. Know God for yourself. Do your research. Read your own Word and Pray to God for understanding.
Many of these Preachers, Pastors and Bishops are simply hung up on a title and getting a Gold chain around their neck. They've only passed down the secret to how top yell and hype up a crowd who leaves and has really learned nothing.
Many are blind fools who are jealous of those who have more.
I dont see them knocking Donald Trump or Bill Gates.. oh for 1 they are not black. So no reason to self hate. Number 2, they are only about business..and they can't understand how someone can be a preacher and a businessman since they themselves can not see themselves successful in business... so when someone professes to be a Christian AND a pastor and have money. They can't take...especially if they dont have any.
A blog filled with NEGATIVITY.. Some are fooled into thinking that as long as they are offending people, they are doing God's work. Let JESUS be your blueprint.
ReplyDeleteNothing more than an accuser of the brethren.
#SAD
Wake up people. A title doe not make them right. The only one perfect is Christ yet they would have you to believe they are also perfect.
They eat, sleep and doo doo just like you and me. Stop worshiping these people because of a title. Many preach OPINION and twist 1/2 a scripture to try and back them up!
Go read for yourselves. Dont read one scripture. Read the chapter before and after that scripture. Wake Up people! Do you REALLY think Our LOVING God would be carrying on the way some of these so-called Christians are?
In 2 Peter 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
We don't know the conversation Pastor Tims had with God before taking his last breath. Some of these people will have you believe you can work your way into heaven. Jesus did ALL the working there is to be done.
Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Because it is OBVIOUS that some of these title toting, 1/2 bible quoting people would be thinking they are all that because THEY worked their way into Heaven.
HUMBLE yourself before the might hand of God!! Don't Let Pride think you're more than what you are. Do not think more highly or yourself than you ought.
God is the Judge meaning people will find out their sentence from HIM and HIM ALONE.. but leave it up to some of these wanna be high and mightily earthlings.. they already know the answer.. now if that isnt self righteous, I dont know what is.
If you agree.. that this man has went to hell (without you going there and seeing for yourself) you too have been deceived already.
Look how this guy runs around telling people to get saved without asking them if they are. look how he tells us in advance who's be judged to Hell. We can judge sin according to 1 Corinthians 5:12, but God judges the soul. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
self-right·eous
Adjective: Having or characterized by a certainty, esp. an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior: "self-righteous indignation".
IN REPLY TO LaPreghiera...
ReplyDeleteRE: How long after the naked photos, sexts, sex tapes, medical reports of venereal diseases, illegitimate kids, divorces, and remarriages of all these "men and women of God" are discovered until our brothers and sisters start to see their leaders for who they really are?
SO WHAT YOU SUBMIT TO NO ONE? WHAT LEADERS 'ARE' GOOD THEN BECAUSE NONE THAT YOU OR I NO ARE PERFECT.. EVEN THE 'LEADER' WHOSE BLOG YOU ARE COMMENTING ON. YOU DONT KNOW IF HE'S AN UNDERCOVER GAY. YOU DONT KNOW IF HE'S HAVING AN AFFAIR. SO SHOULD WE HAVE NO LEADERS BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPER SUSPICIOUS? LOL. OF COURSE NOT.
LOOK.. AT LEAST MAKE SENSE WITH YOUR COMMENTS.
SO WHAT LEADERS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ONLY THOSE WITH MONEY? BECAUSE UNLESS YOU LIVE IN THEIR SHOES, YOU DONT KNOW WHAT ANY QUOTE UNQUOTE LEADER IS DOING.
MAYBE ITS ONLY LEADERS IN YOUR 'DENOMINATION' .. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ALL ARE LIVING RIGHT? WHAT MAKES YOU SO SURE? SEE? YOU DONT KNOW..LOL
SO I GUESS YOU JUST SUBMIT TO NO ONE TO BE SAFE THEN HUNH?
#SAD.. BLIND TWISTED AND MESSED UP.
WE HATE THE SIN AND LOVE THE PERSON REMEMBER?
I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THIS HOLIER THAN THOUS LOL:
ReplyDeleteThe truth of the matter is, we live in a time where people dont want to live faith filled lives, they want to live filth filled lives and can't stand when people preach against their sin. None of us are perfect and never will be so if being perfect is the only way to preach, then it wont be no preaching..LOL.. We are not perfect but we should strive for perfection....and at the same time proclaiming the messages of the bible with our non perfect selves.
People say they love God, but dont keep his commandments. Its a shame we have so many church going SLASH clubbing and drinking so called christians... who actually think they are OK. The Word says, If you love me , keep my commandments. When someone speaks truth, those same people hate it. Who wants to hear the truth when they're wrong? Not many...but hey, it was written in Mark 13:13 .. And everyone will hate you because you are my followers. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE DONT KNOW WHAT WHO DOES WHEN WE ARE NOT LOOKING. THE 'MAIN' ONES WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING ARE DOING THE SAME THING.
IF THAT WERE NOT THE CASE, THERE WOULD NOT BE A SUCH WORD AS HYPOCRITES.
THE OWNER OF THIS BLOG CAUSE BE SNIFFING ALL KINDS OF COCAINE.. HOW WOULD WE KNOW UNLESS GOD REVEALS IT TO US? WE DON'T ITS ALL AT FACE VALUE.
SO WHEN YOU START WITH THESE RANDOM RANTS, JUST REMEMBER, IT CAN BE ANYONE. IF YOU'RE MARRIED, YOU'RE WIFE COULD BE SEXING YOUR NEIGHBOR FOR ALL YOU KNOW.
ITS CALLED TRUST.
THIS DAY AND AGE IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HURT, SCAMMED ONLINE, MISUED, ABANDONED AND TAKEN FOR GRANTED. THEY ARE HURT PEOPLE AND HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE.
NOT HAVING THAT CHILD LIKE FAITH, EVERYTHING IS SUSPECT. THEY THINK EVERYBODY IS UP TO SOMETHING.
THESE SUSPICIONS WILL KEEP YOU FROM HAVING VALUABLE FRIENDSHIPS AND PROMISING RELATIONSHIPS AND WILL KEEP YOU STUNTED IN LIFE AND SPIRITUALLY.
SO JUST REMEMBER, THE MAIN ONE YOU'RE SAYING AMEN WITH, JUST MIGHT HAVE LEFT THE STRIP CLUB THEMSELVES..OR JUST PLAYED THE NUMBER.. THE QUESTION KNOW-IT ALLS IS
HOW DO 'YOU' KNOW?
You know every now and then we have IDIOTS show up and they are certainly entitled to their position. A disagreement DOES NOT make one an idiot...but we have this anonymous SUPER IDIOT who feels that he can "get us told" while he leaves a trail of ignorance...good thing he/she doesn't leave their name...anyone reading their statement would recommend that they go straight to a mental ward of the local hospital:
ReplyDeleteTo to SUPER IDIOT here we go:
You said: No one said being misinformed makes you jealous.. it can simply be heard in the way you write when you talk about the things he had and accomplished... so first all.. keep things in perspective and stop trying to twist my words into a lie when its obvious, that is not why I said you "sounded a tab bit jealous"
[First Evilena, I’m not misinformed about anything neither did I conceded that I was. That’s your weird insistence for me to be wrong in effort to make yourself feel better about your idolatry. Jealously is your superimposition on facts in defense of your idol but there is a trail of “stupidity” that you have left that can’t be denied, as we will see further]
You said: His death was CONFIRMED on Sunday..so get it right..before you raise the eyeballs of suspicion.
[Now let’s get it right and be rational and not as stupid as you appear,,,his death was CONFIRMED on Friday AM. Only certain were let know which included the church and as it began to leak certain were talking about it online, but they already knew in leadership at the church. Many of the members didn’t find out until Sunday AM and most major news reports carried it Monday AM. So in all that effort to tell me to “get it right” first come to right yourself, but the hypocrite that you are bleeds through like a cut juglar vien. ]
You said: Thank God we aren't saved by men.. we'd all be doomed.
You said like the incoherent, logically challenged IDIOT that you are: You are the one who needs to grab a bible..and study some scriptures on Love and grace.. seems you have a few loonies who back up anything you say. Probably some religious nuts who know nothing more than what you tell them because they don't read themselves..because if they did, they would see how much you err. And dont try for a second to judge me dude
[So your motive is to judge me and everyone that disagrees with you then say ‘don’t you judge me dude”???What kind of stupid statement is this??? You pronounce and announce statements FULL of judgment such as “loonies” and “religious nuts” and then say someone needs to study about grace and that we shouldn’t don’t judge you…Go figure. How could you even feel comfortable with that? I know because persons in their sins agree with any bit of garbage that they can that supports their position and they are blind to their sin. Your statements do the best to condemn you and what you believe, I’m simply bringing the attention to it…It’s amazing that the most IDIOTIC and staunch IDOL worshippers always hang themselves in Haman’s gallows. This sounds like an alpha PIMP to me and there are only a handful that I know that are silly enough to set forth a rationale like this…totally funny to me]
You said: Well, how about you build a youth center, buss homeless people to church and then feed them, give away cars, help people with down payments on their homes, or give away a home.. I see you back biting post didn't mention none of the good that man did. So it is obviously, you little blog post in which I only read the top portion, was not balanced.
ReplyDelete[ Work and activity DOESN’T equal salvation nor does it get saved brownie points…is your statement even a little bit biblically coherent??? Have you ever read scripture SUPER IDIOT? Matt 23:13-32 : 13-But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.16-Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17-Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18-And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19-Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20-Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21-And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22-And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24-Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26-Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28-Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30-And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31-Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32-Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33-Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
How many good things did the Pharisees do and how vitriolic was Jesus regarding them? In fact according to your SUPER IDIOT standards Jesus wasn’t saved!,,,OOOH but YOU are??? Isn’t that a blip??? So you feel just like they did in Jesus time…they had Herrod’s name on the Temple Of God and Herrod was anything but right…he was an evil pedophilic drunken murder who gave money and resource to subjugate the people and the Pharisees taught the “greatness of the temple” by superimposing God’s promise on it during 2nd Temple era…Say this SI…IDOL WORSHIPERS! They loved the temple and the Pharisees though they did something because they had given and gave, but Jesus said they were on their way to HELL! Now, do you ever READ the bible???
SUPER IDIOT said: For you to bring up his past sin shows where your maturity level is. That god for him, when he repented of those sins, God cast them into the sea of forgetfulness. its silly humans who keep swimming in their trying to bring them out to strengthen their argument.
ReplyDelete[To bring up what is actual FACTS is the responsible thing to do because IDIOTS like you want to whitewash unrepented sins and pretend that none of what he did matters as long as he was able to entertain you and make you feel better about your sins…This fella did this publically and left a trail of covering his sins and simply moving on…he visits strippers for over a year, has multiple affairs and refrains from the pulpit for 3 months…all the while leaving his family with 4 kids (one with special needs) to fly around with strippers and TBN appearances and you don’t see anything wrong…Didi he write THAT in his book???Jim Baaker wrote about his sins and wrote a book of repentance saying that “I Was Wrong”… Jimmy Swaggart confessed his sins openly even after a reversion…why didn’t yo boy do that??? U know why…SINNERS don’t repent. PIMPS don’t think they do anything wrong and that’s wht were fighting is PIMP behavior and PIMP supporters like you!]
You said:what if God kept bringing up all your sin from 2010..Oh let me guess. You did no wrong in 2010.
[ Well, I didn’t visit a stirip club, nor did I fly anywhere to meet my illicit lovers, nor did I have any illicit lovers, nor did I leave my children to pursue illicit lovers, nor did I do drugs and try to pretend that all was well, nor did I use the bible to seduce individuals, get money and hide behind my sins…so I would say that any sins that I committed in 2010 weren’t in a category or class anything similar to the sins that Tims was engaged in from 2007 when it seems that he was caught in his…In fact, I have no bags of “white powdery” substances laying around for current or future use and my children and spouse won’t suffer the embarrassment of discovering a second life if I were to die today…So what was the question again?]
Then you said: Please.. dont let you position go to your head. YOU pick up a bible and stop with the religious huffing and puffing and actually teach something. Somebody had to tell you. You dont know when your time is. You could be next. Make sure your heart is right, full of Love.
[OK, now you’re counciling me or any of us on LOVE…You get the SUPER IDIOT prize of the year! Spill all this idiotic, incoherent rambling , calling folk names and talk about LOVE…you are full of it!]
You said: You dont know what he and God discusses before he took his last breath..but your self righteous thinking has you so messed up, now you want to play God.
[No, its you that is “playing God”. In fact you recreate a totally different standard of righteousness and salvation to fit your need for this man to have has some special intervention between the last time he snorted and his heart stopped on the floor…When the scripture says, let him who is holy be holy still…in fact SCRIPTURE says this: Rev. 22:10-13 ~ 10-And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11-He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12-And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13-I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”
Where’s the time for repentance in that??? Accoding to you God is wrong, because we don’t know what a person can do in the mantime…PLEASE get an understanding Actually read the bible BEFORE imposing your own type of morality on the subject.]
You said: May the REAL God have mercy on your soul.
ReplyDelete[ Your’s too! It is obvious that you need it, since you are recreating a biblical morality to suit your understanding]
You said: People stop listening to these blind shepherds. Know God for yourself. Do your research. Read your own Word and Pray to God for understanding.
[ And people when you do, read this verse too…Romans 10:14-15 ~ 14-How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15-And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!”
and this one about what GOD has instituted within the church:
Ephes 4:10-12~ 10-He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11-And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12-For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ”:
So while you advise to read scripture as I said red it FIRST yourself and get and understanding…God doesn’t have an independent, individual system whereby his servants aren’t part of the greater community of God or instruction. It’s the modern day idolators that demand such total independence]
SUPER IDIOT has no biblical standards and does not adhere to biblical standards of interpretation. He conveniently recreates biblical morality to suit his/her needs...
ReplyDeleteThus the seduction of the church is revealed. A person can say and live just about any kind of apostasy and someone will support them and claim that they are right!
We won't be seduced by that garbage, we KNOW the truth! Don't try to teach us, you're INCAPABLE of doing such. I'm convinced that you don't know God nor the bible.
And I mean this like I wrote it:
ReplyDelete"red it FIRST yourself and get and understanding"
LOL!!! Red the bible!
lol @ the silly anonymous person who for some reason feels the overwhelming need to come to this blog and set everybody straight.
ReplyDeleteGee. Thanks. /sarcasm/
Next in line please?
GCMwatch,
ReplyDeleteJust pathetic ignorance isn't it? -LOL
All the while saying "don't judge" and "show the love of Christ" while judging, displaying hate and even more stupidity...
No wonder they don't ascribe their name, I would be embarrassed too.
Well done Supt Burnett, great article. You covered all the bases and dealt firmly with deluded critic(s). Thanks for keeping one particular point in the light. This man was in adultery with a prostitute for months – and then he left his wife and 4 children to carouse with sinners!!! And those around him patted him on the back, kept money in his pocket and the TBN cameras rolling!! No thought was given to his discarded family and because of his adulterous actions, how many others felt it was okay to divorce a spouse? How many got caught up in fornication and/or other sins? And I don’t care what amount the divorce settlement was or how much time he spent with his children. According to God and His written Word, not Supt Burnett’s word – Mr. Tims was not qualified to lead anyone in the Body of Christ.
ReplyDeleteKeep pressing the battle to the gate!
How many people are aware that this is the same SUPER IDIOT trying to make it appear as if he has an audience-LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteSUPER IDIOT PIMP...why don't you attempt to learn somethign that will actually help someone like, learn how not to worship yourself and be up in a persons behind like you obviously were with Tims...And you call someone else "gay"???
This SUPER IDIOT is defending a MAN that left his wife and 4 children (one with special needs) at the height of his ministry to pursue a STRIPPER in strip clubs...
SUPER IDIOT, did you get that invite too??? Obviously you have a vested interest in it because you're defending the most deplorable behaviors that a man could ever do to his family...
Truth...YOU have NO CLUE what that is. There is only one reason that you would persist, it;s because you're an ALPHA PIMP like the good phony Dr...who's the phone baloney Dr. Anonymous??? I'll bet you and he are a split personality friend IN the end too aren't you??? In fact I'll bet you're on in the same...
SUPER IDIOT!!!
I'll have no more of your garbage...go back to the SLIME BUCKET you crawled out of...you add nothing to an adult conversation and I've given you far too much space as it is...
Idolaters like that have done stuff like Tims over and over again...that's obvious from this PUNK'S commentary...he's a habitual and serial adulterer and drug user.
ReplyDeleteWhat he and people like him do is seek to intimidate those who know the word and try to trick individuals into believing that they have some superior authority or insight, but they offer no coherent rendering of truth...in fact they are devoid of truth...
See how he handled scripture talking about the order of the church? Shrugs it off with his own interpretive...His word is greater than God's now-LOL COMPLETE FOOL!!!
This is modern idolatry and split personalities...this PIMP probably has two to three gay boys on the side along with another harlot, and does drugs too...A commentary like that and rationalizations like that are a SURE indicator of drug infestation...Then he comes home to pretend that all is well. As long as the bills are otherwise paid he can fake it like he does, because like he uses others, others use him...
POOF BE GONE...slime bucket, we've got much better things to do than appease your fantasies for attention and relevance...because you have N O N E!
Lady D,
ReplyDeleteThat's the message of the whole fiasco...accountability is nonexistent...These guts and guys like Tims, hang out and pat one another on the back with sins. It makes them feel less inferior...they can have an excuse for their sin amongst one another..."you're in this sin?"..."don't worry, I'll cover yours as long as you cover mine"...It's the ultimate affront against GOd...a collaboration of unrighteousness...
What I believe God is going to do is simply allow charlatans like this to continue to get caught in their sins and exposed in embarrassing ways...When sins are drug out before the world you KNOW there has been no repentance. Forgiven sins are covered by the mercy of God...
What did he say...he would "hide us" under the shadow of his wing? Trouble is when the devil or the accuser like the Pimp that reads every bit of material on this blog that he can, accuses the Saints...GOd has promised a deliverance out of the hand and snare of the Fowler...but that is only reserved for those that know him...
Of one thing I'm convinced...if Tims had repented and followed that up with a public accounting (which is the real indicator of private repentance in a case such as this) although he may have died, there certainly would NOT have been drugs in his pocket and everyone would already know his testimony and position on his sins and ultimate reversion to God...
No such thing exists in this case...there is NOTHING to indicate that there was ever a genuine repentance except for a vacation or a trip that he and his former family took last week (or so) in which he spent time with his kids...a final go around...that's it!
For God to have allowed this mans sins to be so openly seen, is the best indicator of his sinfulness...a God of mercy doesn't allow this upon his elect...
Fools like the alpha pimp above don't care about GOd's nature, they have no clue what it is...
Pimpolisciousthought he was hidden in this thread...unfortunately you can SMELL him a mile away! Same stupidity, just another subject...
ReplyDeleteGod moved upon the family's heart to block out the Word Network's perpetuation of lies at the funeral. Thank God for that.
What this has done is reveal a sad line of demarcation in the church...a line of those that believe the bible and that believe that SIN is the separation between God and man, and the others that have created a new standard of righteousness, where one who is in sin can enter heaven and as long as there are an abundance of good works, one should be praised...
Heck, they are still praising James Cleveland and he has been proven to be a predatorial pedophile who transmitted AIDS (HIV) to young boys in his entourage
I guess what more can we expect from a TV personality???
Wonder why there is little power in the church? This is it...too many leaders and congregants affirming unrighteousness and ungodliness. God doesn't affirm sin nor sinners. The church led by those such as Pimpoliscious is destined for destruction as GOd has pronounced his word against sin and the apostasy that the modern church has fallen in love with.
Please note that you will need an ID to comment...we'll have no more idiots like Pimpoliscious post without leaving a ID trail for their idiotic ramblings.
ReplyDeleteSince cyber idiots are often afraid to identify themselves publicly, we'll help do it for them.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
There are those that hold the truth in unrighteousness all for the sake of gain.
ReplyDeleteTheir damnation will come at their last breath in the likelihood that they refuse to repent, and more than likely they won't.
Ahhh, I wondered who "Anonymous" was. This explains a lot now. Gosh Pastor it seems to me that he is trying to make himself believe that this biblical assessment will not apply to him if he squawks enough!
ReplyDeleteHe is simply afraid and refuses to see that he is also in error. He will soon meet the same fate if he does not repent. He also does not want his own cash cow to dry up so to speak. Forget about what the Bible says (you have done an excellent job of pointing out relevant scripture) he wants to maintain the status quo and this article along with all of us who agree are a threat to his empire.
I will be praying for him.
In a recent HULIQ article regarding Tims death, the author points out that the public really doesn't know exactly what the "white powdery substance" found on Tims dead body was, and because of that questioned whether conversation regarding the nature of Tims death was a rush to judgement.
ReplyDeleteThe author even conveniently delivered an apologetic for Tims IF it is found that the substance is drugs (which has already been confirmed to be a NARCOTIC -the only questions regarding the substance are the type of drug that it is and whether it had anything to do with Tims death)he states the following:
"Although it is known that the 42-year-old Tims was once an addict and given to a life of criminal activity, information he freely disclosed on the New Direction website and in his memoir, before his conversion to Christianity, there reportedly as yet have been no indications from friends and family members that the Reverend may have had a relapse.
So break there for a minute...he says, there is no evidence that anything was wrong with Tims...OK...but I think he was on drugs when he left his wife and family for strippers while pastoring (SWP) and flew around the world meeting up with them in hotels and various venues while continuing to appear on TBN and leading people spiritually...But even though the author states there is no evidence of any wrongdoing he concludes this segment by saying this:
Given the pressures of running a 8,000-member megachurch and the recent personal troubles associated with divorce and its concomitant legal worries, there seems to have existed an atmosphere that might have fostered conditions favorable toward a relapse.
So because of the size of the church and the pressures associated with managing it, the divorce and legal troubles associated with that, IF he had done drugs, those were ample reasons for it.
Now does anyone see what;s wrong with that picture? It's called an "excuse" the "excuse" for his lapse, IF he had one, is someone else or something else. But what about scripture? What does it say about failure of any kind?
Mt. 15:18-20 ~ 18-But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19-For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20-These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
We're living in a day when there seems to be little light being ministered because a lot of these people interpret scripture in light of human weakness and frailty instead of in the light of scriptural strength or the power of God...
To the world, failure happens as a result of social pressures and things of the world that zap our strength. However, the bible teaches that the only problem that we have is the sin that dwells within us. In other words, there is no external force than can cause us to sin. Sin is birthed within our hearts.
Tims went with stripper because adultery was birthed in his heart, NOT because he was overwhelmed with mega-ministry pressure...Tims left his wife because of what was in him, not because she demanded that he live right...Tims reverted back to drugs because of what was in him, not because of a social pressure thrust upon him....
This is the reconciliation of sin that the modern church, along with it's lying prophets, that have been sent to deceive and shade truth, cannot distinguish.
Because of his "good works" the church would rather reconcile that any failure in this man's life was someone else's fault, not his.
This a modern form of idolatry, but still idolatry nonetheless. I hope we have spiritual eyes to see it.
Pastor, I really had to think about the “accountability” statement. In our “PC” church environment, accountability groups and friends have sprung up everywhere-nothing wrong with the concept. But if a person is not accountable to God and His Word, then having a buddy is useless. A person is going to do what they want, no matter who says what-and they know full well that it is wrong. Joseph, son of Jacob the deceiver kept the Word of God that his father taught him hidden in his heart. When Potiphar’s wife kept trying to seduce him, he told her “How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?” (Gen 39:9b) Joseph did not have the following:
ReplyDelete1. A prayer partner/group
2. An accountability group/partner to tell how he felt about Potiphar’s wife
3. A 1-800 number prayer line to call when he felt weak
4. A prophet/prophetic word to tell him that he was being launched into his destiny
5. The written Word of God
6. No one in his family even knew that he was alive!!
7. And He lived in a hedonistic society that had no moral boundaries
So what excuse will we have for our sinful behavior when we stand before God on judgment day and we have 1 through 5 available in overflow??? The Word has to be hidden in our hearts not to sin against God. Christianity deals with the heart! We can dress up the outside, but God sees the inside and we all are called to submit to the Lordship of Christ; or we will fall. Yes, we are tempted in many ways, but God provides a way out. (1 Cor 10:13) He is faithful and mighty to save~
As Letters from Deb said, accountability to God IS first and foremost. As Supt. Burnett has said so very accurately stated, Tims rolled how he rolled, did what he did because of WHAT WAS IN HIM.
ReplyDeleteNow let's go to a true and proper accountability structure for men and then a pastor.As for men, you are accountable to God, your wife, accountability partner(s), pastor and godly living superiors. This is a 2-way street, you are responsibe,willing and report to them AND you give them the right/responsibility to check in on you at ANY time. This is a covenant relationship.
As for pastors, they are of course accountable to God, their spouse, the Elders (and elders or the board of the church shouldn't be the pastor's cronies) of the church and to their congregation. They should be comfortbale with and have in place systems where their wife AND persons of more than one accountability level know where they are at all times. They owe it to God, themselves, their spouse, family and members. That system should be such that if the pastor were to cajole one person, then that person would have integrity to report that to another person in the accountability chain such that the pastor doesn't go alone and fall into something they shouldn't.
James 1:13-15 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
The "struggle" isn't with the actions of sin, it's with making the decision to live free in Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the commentary and I believe that it's in order.
ReplyDeleteI agree that any outside system of accountability is only as good as the persons holding one accountable...I mean what type of accountability are you going to get if the one you're accountable to is a PIMP? NONE!
So being in the right circle of fiends is something that should be natural for the Saints to gravitate toward.
Then, as RL said, a person must take it seriously that service to their spouse and family, those to whom a person should be immediately accountable, means something to God.
However, if a person doesn't first know that they are foremost accountable to God and his word, then they need to check their motivations, life and what is going on between the ears and most specifically in the heart. A person's heart must be changed.
In this situation, I believe we had a man who thought he could experiment and relive himself the way he wanted to...when he wasn't struck down in the affair and finding out that people would still and yet be loyal to him, I believe that spoke that he could do a lot of things as long as he didn't "go tot far"...but see the first step toward sin is too far...he either forgot that lesson or the lesson didn't matter to him.
See, critics like Scott and other apostates, that don't understand my position, fail to realize that I had to give up my CRAP, called SIN at the door in order for me to move forward...I had to do what it took to be free of sin on whatever level that I struggled with it...I made a conscious decision to do so and being free and coming to grips with me certainly wasn't pretty....
Now after having gone through all that, I would be a FOOL to sit here and give rampant sin a pass in the life of a leader that had more resources that I had, more opportunity to be free than I was given and all the tools necessary to live a victorious life...What kind of IDIOT would condone sin in the life of a fellow minister simply because he/she looked nice and did some fantastic works????
That is the epitome of ignorance and those in ministry who want to use obscurity to try to change the real of what transpired and the judgement and edict of GOd in the case can't really help me when it comes to this issue...They are the same one's who would have said that the death of Eli, Hopni, and Phineas in one day was just a spiritual coincidence...only that the word of GOd had already been delivered...
It was delivered in this case as well...Tims already knew the cost and price of sin, he was no novice. He was since 2007 what sin would do and how he would loos out in it...loosing a beautiful wife and family...what more warning could be given and why would anyone with a spiritual mind need a more specific or exacting display of the righteousness of God???
One more thing for me at this point, some say, "well there were a lot worse preachers, why didn't God strike them?"...
ReplyDeleteSentiments as such are a human reconciliation of sin that I believe sickens GOd...The first thing is that one cannot reconcile GOd to a tolerance of sin. To do so soils his holy nature. In other words, GOd looks on certain sins casually while he is really punishing others...ALL sin and evil will be judged and is contrary to GOd, his nature and his word.
Secondly, what we don't know is if Tims made a vow to the Lord after being exposed the first time and failed to keep it...No doubt he was repentant at least to God, after the strippers, although I believe there was still something happening as a result...That is something that a person just doesn't jump in and out of. A wise father speaking to his son in "Talks With My Father" said that sex with a woman that was not a man's wife was a 7 year proposition...and I believe that!
Another things is, how do we as a church say that we will understand if God judges this sin, but won't understand if God judges "that" sin or sinner??? Ie: it comes back to idolatry...we will have certain "picks" based on things that usually either appeal or don't appeal to us on an individual basis...the fact is that GOd doesn't care about what we think or how we think he should judge...He is the only one in the position of righteousness to do the judging and his purpose is accomplished with every edict that he makes from the throne and among men...he is GOD and God alone!
There is another couple of things I find interesting about this story in general. New Destiny under pastor Tims is being hailed for community service and being in touch with the community. I believe that is a good thing...but isn't that what the church is supposed to do and be?
ReplyDeleteAs i hear some talk about it, it is as if New Destiny is an anomaly of some sort...that it is off the charts of a Christian church because it gives school supplies, cuts hair and otherwise service the community at times...To me that's a sad testament to the modern Christian church..we can see placing millions upon millions into a church building fund and when we spend $50 on the community it;s a "great work"...
As I said that's not a snare on new destiny by any means, it's simply an observation about the modern condition of the church...
As second thing I have heard is this..."why don't we know what the substance is or was, because they can CSI it right away?"
OK, 'tis true they can determine what it is with some limitations at the scene many times...But let me share with you what I'm told and it all comes down to chemistry and ongoing investigations...
Every narcotic is a chemical substance...every chemical substance has a slightly different chemical composition. Varying chemical compositions are like signatures...these signatures are evidence and also a trail to follow.
If the Police are investigating a certain chemical composition ie: certain individuals who are distributing certain narcotics that have a certain composition, it is the department's best interest to delay sharing information with the public and making sure that who they have their eyes on can be traced to the narcotic found...ie: let's say that certain drugs were bought from Nar Q Cotic who only sells drugs with a certain composition and the police are aware of it...they are trying to find his supplier and how far his chain reaches...Nar Q Cotic's chemical composition shows up in Canada but he lives in TX...the job of the police is not to find how did that drug get to Canada? Could there be 2 distribution streams? rather than blab the chemical composition, it is in the best interest of the dept. to remain cool and allow the guilty parties to incriminate themselves even further by their actions thus exposing their network...
OK, I'm no Narc officer, but roughly this is more than likely the scenario or some variation to some extent...
The police have affirmed it is a Narcotic...we don't know exactly what and it may have been laced with a few things...right now, viagra is being laced with certain compounds and it is a mess...Heart explosion is the result.
So we'll see, but until then tell Pimpoliscious to stay off the drugs. We've already seen the effect on his brain cells!
There is just ONE question I'd like to ask after reading your blog about Zachary Tims: What does it profit a man (Tims) to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?
ReplyDeleteSobering article.
ReplyDeleteBut as far as Riva is concerned, the Bible tells us the husband will be saved by the chaste conversation of the wife. She lost him to a strange and mysterious death while he was involved with drugs and strippers.
Riva Tims seems more to want to be a fashion model than the woman the scripture describes.
Modest in dress and conduct...and in subjection to her own husband as to the Lord.
God is not mocked and in taking Tim's life, God also took Riva's husband and father of her children.
God does not punish the righteous along with the wicked.
Not calling Riva Tims wicked, but something is amiss here.
God help us all.
God have mercy on the church and send revival!
דודשמש יםךא ךםהד עם,
ReplyDeleteSorry but I don't agree with you on this one...Riva had the authority and favor of GOd. I believe she has handled herself greatly during this whole mess...
Without her consent, her husband left her to see other women.
Without her consent, her husband and the ministry fired her from her position in a ministry that SHE helped to found.
Without her consent, her husband left their four children and one with special needs.
I understand your intents, but the bible does not advocate either spousal abuse or silence or inaction regarding abuse by the innocent spouse. GOd doesn't use marriage as a tool to punish individuals...She was well within her rights and means as "one flesh"...She demanded that her husband get right...He wasn't simply standing outside smoking on a break...He was sinning "with the body" (ie: totally turned) according to scripture...Her silence would have condoned his sin and she would have virtually been a partaker of it.
God said he would judge whormongers and adulterers didn't he? See many of us think that judgement will be at the seat of God as a part of the great judgement and reconciliation of all things, but what IF that judgement is a present event also?
Now, the proof is in the pudding...look at who was vindicated and left to stand in all things???
The CHURCH that sat by and endorsed the firing of her as well as allowed her to suffer the embarassment for desiring a righteous and holy marriage, called HER for support...
The state called HER to identify and claim the body
Tims dishonored this woman and God turned that dishonor around and made her enemies bow down and honor her anyway. She is the most stable element that I have heard in the whole process of events. Why? Because her shame has been turned and GOd has established peace with her and righted an injustice.
This isn't directed toward you, but PIMPS and IDIOTS that I mentioned earlier have no regard for what GOd did for this woman or family...all they see is their cronnie down and they fight for them, fighting for unrighteousness and hate them that stand for truth...Peasants like that have no clue as to what righteousness really is for they have never really known GOd. For their sins they cry "mercy and grace" but for the disagreement of others they holla foul...They are blind bats flying in the daylight, not having a clue as to what they are running into.
So thanks for the opinion but I see a little more broad spectrum in this particular instance...
Amen! @Pastor Burnett's last comment: I see this so clearly! God is a wonder!
ReplyDeleteI want to also point out that this idea (which is spawned by Satan) that "Everybody is doing something so you can't judge" is so unscriptural! These PIMPS have so many duped into thinking that it is impossible to live a holy and righteous life. The mere fact that you (Pastor Burnett) were accused of such evil as you were by Anon is proof that the belief is that one is unable to live this life as God commands. What BULL!!!
The scripture is clear that we are called to: "Be followers (imitators) of God as dear children" Eph 5:1 If we could not do this, then God would not have said it! What Jesus Christ did on the Cross was sufficient to save us AND to sanctify and keep us! We are to put our faith and trust in what He did to keep us desiring the right things and doing the right things according to the Word of God. "Be ye holy" IPet 1:16 is not a suggestion!! Nor is it impossible to live! That is a lie they tell every time they come on a blog like this and try to "spank" the writer for pointing out the truth of God's Word.
I am not talking about sinless perfection, but I am talking about victory in Jesus. Victory does not equal perfection, but a consistent reliance on Jesus Christ and Him Crucified! We must all trust in that finished work of Christ to live a holy and godly life. I can personally testify to this as the answer! No: everybody is NOT living a double life running around on their wife with other women/men, or lying, stealing, molesting children or any other number of things that should not be named among the saints!(Eph 5:3)
Every time God allows these ungodly deeds to be exposed there are those who want to soften or silence God and what He is saying to us through these events. Wake up! God is speaking loud and clear and he is not softening His speech either!
Thank you Pastor Burnett for not backing down in spite of the pressure to just sugarcoat and pacify the itching ears of the sensual saints!
Another thing: Did Jesus die on the cross and go through all of that so that we would still look like the world and act like the devil? Or did He come and die so that SIN would not have dominion over us? I say the latter.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame that the church has been duped into following another Jesus which is of another spirit who is powerless in their lives to heal, deliver or save. Shame on all these PIMPS for leading people to that muddy nasty water to drink and thus die thereby.
Let them tell it Jesus can't do anything- not even save you! Boy if I can get so worked up just thinking about how they slight the savior imagine how angry it makes God!
"Sorry but I don't agree with you on this one...Riva had the authority and favor of GOd. I believe she has handled herself greatly during this whole mess..."
ReplyDeleteI am not that familiar with these people. I only had seen Zachary Tims on TBN, but never heard him preach. I only knew he seemed like a good man with a great smile.
I still don't see her as innocent.
This man died and who was THERE for him?
No one.
Don't try to convince me of anything. It won't work. Tims is dead and it is sad that no one, saw that he needed help.
And if anyone should have seen it his wife should have seen it. Her and her alone should have seen that this man needed help.
So save your defense of her for someone who will agree with you.
We will see what God does with this "mess" as you call it. I see it as a horrific tragedy that was probably preventable.
May God help the congregation in Florida and show them the way so they won't lose another pastor.
WHY did no one help him???
Marcia,
ReplyDeleteYou see it just fine and the way it should be...In their world, the world of the PIMPS, Jesus is powerless and dependent upon man for action.
The Gospel is not the power of GOd unto salvation, it's a vehicle of intellectual enlightenment and a means to personal fulfillment. As I state the blind can't even see the fault with their logic, they simply offer the sacrifice of fools!
I said..."Her and her alone should have seen that this man needed help"
ReplyDeleteand it should be.. she and she alone.
It ticks me off that he was surrounded bu all these Christians, yet no one, not even one was able to help him.
What does this say?
Yet you sit there defending the very person Riva whom God gave to Zachary Tims to be his helpmeet.
I know what a helpmeet is.
She was the one that God provided to HELP him.
Yet no one was there to help this man who died for what?
ודשמש יםךא ךםהד עםג,
ReplyDeleteOut of all that you say, someohow you don't stop at the paoint that someone DID try to help him...his wife! Who was well within her bounds.
Since you admittedly don't know, I've added some context for you...Now, what you espouse is that she was partially responsible for Tims failure...That's a bunk argument...and that feeds into the problem as I see it...
In other words, Tims doesn't stand on his own in accountability for for his own actions. Secondly, there is no warrant or support for your statement except for how she appears to you as a "model" or one concerned with her outward appearance...She's a cosmetologist from what I understand, and she does take pride in her looks but she doesn't look like a woman of the world in any form.
now, opinions are good and you're certainly entitled, but truth statements are subject to challenge. You hold her accountable...this is called an aspersion upon her. All I ask you to do is support it with either biblical or material fact as i have done in outlining my case. WHY? Because there is no room or warrant for confusion over this issue...Other women that are experiencing this same thing right now, on a different scale, need to know that biblically they have a RIGHT to hold a lying, cheating husband's feet to the fire and they are in the position of God's favor.
That man made a vow before GOD and multiple witnesses, to FORSAKE ALL OTHERS..."all others' includes not only women, but drugs, alcohol, and anything that could damage or come between their marriage...He did neither and did not turn to restore the situation, only added insult to injury, and yet YOU cast aspersions at her...NO my friend, I won't allow it to pass without challenge and asking you to support your statements...
I don't do this all the time, but in this one I am prepared especially when it comes to defense of the innocent. That's what I do, just in case you didn't know.
and it should be.. she and she alone.
ReplyDeleteIt ticks me off that he was surrounded bu all these Christians,
ודשמש יםךא ךםהד עםג,
You said:yet no one, not even one was able to help him.
What does this say?
Yet you sit there defending the very person Riva whom God gave to Zachary Tims to be his helpmeet.
YES, I do exactly and with support of the scripture...who told YOU that she was the ONLY one that was to help him??? Where is that at within scripture? She is his "helpmeet", but where does scripture isolate her as his only help? What about the help of the Holy Ghost?, What about the help of the Pastoral leader? What about the help of the community of believers?
The problem was that he had councilors around him that were more in tune with the persona than the spirit. Riva PROVED that she wasn't in that by bringing him to accountability...So your statement regarding this is not intellectually fulfilling.
Put it properly and STOP blaming the victim, Zachery REJECTED the help that he had and failed in responsibility for his own actions...So let's uncover the truth...It's assessments like you're that keep folk bound in abusive marriages like this and that also keep folk hurt and shame in situations like this...Tims was an abusive spouse and Rive get's high honors in my book...NEVER one heard about her cheating now have ya???
Sorry, but you fail in your defense of Riva. Again.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I'm convinced you do not understand anything I'm telling you.
Your mind is closed, not only to the fact, that the one closest to him should have helped him, but FAILED to do so
But also to the fact, that the problem is, you are also on some spiritual high horse in some fictitious lala land truly believing that you are some spiritual giant God set on high on a blog to determine right from wrong.
Your entire agenda is to blame the dead man. You had the audacity to even blame God.
But in your closed mind Riva, who was Tim's partner in sin here is innocent.
Reading your empty and meaningless ramblings makes me understand a little why this wounded man is dead.
Apparently it was people like you aho mentored him.
No I did not say Riva looked like a model. I said she tries to look like a model.
I'm angry because this man is dead and you sit there on your "throne" and condemn him while worshiping his unforgiving wife.
I never heard Tims preach, but he had a look, a smile that lit up his face. Even a room. He looked right.
He is dead and his wife surely has some blame here for not helping him, for not forgiving him.
Some "first lady" she was: totally blind to the fact that Zachary Tims WAS forgivable. Did she forgive?
No she divorced him. Who knows what he went through?
But it was all about Riva. Not her husband and certainly not the kids that needed their dad.
Away with your "intellectual nonsense.
Sin is the problem the world has!
Sorry, but you can type me a reply until your fingers fall off, but I see it that Riva failed this good man in his most trying hours.
God will judge between her and Zachary.
"NEVER one heard about her cheating now have ya???"
ReplyDeleteNever heard about her forgiving either.
Jesus said because of the HARDNESS of your hearts Moses wrote them that commandment, (a writing of divorcement) but from the BEGINNING it was not so.
She did not forgive him. What he needed most of all she failed to do.
Yet you give her high honors?
Sorry but W means WITHOUT.
He was without his wife's forgiveness.
God HATES divorce. Just in case you didn't know that.
דשמש יםךא ךםהד עםג,
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are alluding to however, Riva has spoken for herself much better than what Zachery ever did and she hasn't delivered hatred in the least as you suppose. You should familiarize yourself with the facts before allowing your bias to take over.
This is what she said regarding marriage and reconciliation. This is contained in the link I have in the article(although it appears to be down there is a chached version of it available)
AZ: How do you embrace being single? Will you marry again?
Riva Tims: "All the single ladies, all the single ladies….well I am making the best of it. It has been quite the learning experience for me. I have learned so much about myself. There has been quite a few things I did not know I was capable of doing. However, I had no other options but to do it by myself. I started a successful health and wellness business; I am a radio talk show host, co-host of a television broadcast, and Senior Pastor and founder of a wonderful church. WHAT!!!! A man did not do that for me, it has been the Lord on my side. Yes, Lawd! I will marry again. I love marriage and I still believe that it is God’s ultimate plan for reconciliation even in the most horrid situations"
Now, where is the accusation or hatred? Theories crumble to dust. We have a lady that has been far beyond drug through the mud due to no fault of her own and she STILL believed that her marriage would be reconciled and believed in teh institution itself??? What??? How is that unforgiving either toward Zachery or even GOd??? Please spell out her hatred toward her husband if you would???
To a greater point, God hates divorce as it is not his best, but he has committed no marriage to abuse and misuse and she was free from his bondage under the circumstance when he broke the covenant relationship. I have written a comprehensive discourse on marriage and it's boundaries HERE
In addition, you'll also come to know the what type of forgiveness that we are required to extend to those who have done us wrong...it is not a forgiveness to allow further abuse and misuse...it is a forgiveness to not exact revenge and one that desires mercy...not the continued actions of the unrepentant...Neither Riva or any of us are under a biblical constraint or obligation to forgive anyone who has consciously done wrong and does not ask for forgiveness...
While that may be a surprise to you, God doesn't use forgiveness as a means to perpepuate sin and wrongdoing. Placing the requirement upon the victim to forgive when the offender doesn't care less a most troubling false teaching and a myth with no biblical basis. That type of sentiment is more in line with modern humanism. I discuss that in specificity in the comments section of This Article.
GOd only forgives those who ask and our standard is not greater than his. As we can see, Riva did her part and is and was doing it well.
Now, my question to you is why do you have such a low view of victims and their rights of freedom and blessing?
Your statements sound borderline misogynistic also and there is no scripture to support that a spouse should remain abused in the name of retaining a marriage.
דשמש יםךא ךםהד עםג,
ReplyDeleteIn addition to totally backwards and unsupportable statements, you deliver the most ABSURD and RIDICULOUS assessment of your"approval" of Tims that I have ever read...
You approve a SINNER and the SINS of a man base don this subjective GARBAGE:
I never heard Tims preach, but he had a look, a smile that lit up his face. Even a room. He looked right.
What the HECK does that mean???How can someone's "smile" look right??? You don't even know what he preached, but yet you are willing to hate the wife for doing what the BIBLE says she should do...
Look, OBVIOUSLY you have no clue! In addition, you're a woman hater and you are biblically illiterate...
Talk about a high horse...at LEAST I know what I'm talking about!!! YOU should be ashamed!!! That is about the worst dogma that I have ever read on a serious issue.
Be gone in the rolling dust cloud from whence you came!...You have not supported any of your arguments and a "smile looking right" is hardly a defense and or support of anyone's actions...In fact that's plain ole STUPID!
What kind of idol worshipers come out for this man is AMAZING to me...That's what God will judge this generation, they hate righteousness and love mess and confusion!
Then here's a difference without distinction:
ReplyDelete"No I did not say Riva looked like a model. I said she tries to look like a model"
Now, is that a technical difference in this convo? DOes that distinguishing favor have anything to do with the convo? NO!
What that shows is hatred for the victim, possibly even jealousy for Riva in this case more specifically...Either way, commentary like this is RIDICULOUS!!!
Now, all of this person's anger and he can only get mad because a woman exercised her RIGHTS to call a charlatan to accountability and in defense these weak kneed, spaghetti backed folk say "his smile looked right"...That is BACKWARDS!!!
Answer this, since I am on such a high horse...how did his smile look to his kids when he was leaving them or putting them out of the house??? How did his smile look when he was firing the woman who built the church with him because she said leave the MULTIPLE woman and affairs alone??? How did his "smile" look when he was going overseas and Paris meeting up with this and "these" strippers having illicit extramarital sex and then coming back on TBN talking about "Praise The Lord!"
What kind of smile did GOd see when he was either snortin, or shootin up his body with illegal drugs while still being a preacher???
Where was the "smile" at then, since you can look at it and glean so much godliness from it??? Why didn't God just look at his smile and say...'I'm not going to judge you for all the evil you've done and breaking your vow!"
Yet utter HATERS like this have the nerve to claim their "righteous indignation" at persons such as me who point out this GARBAGE that is called modern Christianity...Sickening!!!
Where was the smile at in any of these instances since I'm on the high horse...obviously you're much higher than I am, so high I would imagine you can almost see your own tonsils by now!
One thing I'm surprised at and it must be because repression is so prevalent...I'm surprised that every married woman on this blog doesn't read people like this the riot act...I certainly give permission if any is necessary...
ReplyDeleteCan you believe a person comes in a public domain to say that the cheated on spouse was to blame for the non-restoration of her charlatan husband and his actions in multiple affairs???
Only in the modern church can the innocent be responsible for the illegal and ungodly orgasm of the spouse enjoying their sin! What a painful reality of this world!
Pastor Burnett, I appreciate your shedding light on this issue. It is truly a tragedy of great proportions for the reasons that you have previously mentioned. Some people may have blood on their hands for helping this young minister ascend to such high heights but not being effective in ministering to his greatest needs. But concerning the "smile" issue, You and the readers may get a kick out of a well known preacher's take on the subject's smile.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/religion/os-zachery-tims-funeral-service-20110820,0,3486109.story
I have been looking up information about Tims' death since it was announed earlier this week and all kinds of questions sprung up in my mind about the circumtances about his death. He did good in the community but he was affiliated with some of the most ungodly ministers we have ever seen (Bryant, White, Jakes, Hinn, etc.). I used to turn in to his "No Limit" broadcasts and was not impressed by his preaching, which seemed nothing more than motivational speeches and self-help. I only hope that Riva can find some closure in this situation and hope she continues to do well in her ministry.
ReplyDeleteOk דודשמש יםךא ךםהד עם, I have read your disturbing commentary on here, and I am calm enough now to reply.
ReplyDelete1. How dare you blame the victim in all of this! This MAN, who is accountable to God alone, decided to walk away from the woman God gave him to frolic with countless others. How is she to blame for that! If someone is bent on an action, NO ONE can help them until they want help!
2. How do you know she did not try to help him or that she did not forgive him? I see a wounded woman and children that allowed him to go on a trip with them. Hmmmm? I don't know many people divorced under the circumstances that they were that can go on a trip together! This woman did try to help him by standing up for and demanding righteousness from ZT. She could not continue to place herself in physical, spiritual, and emotional danger. She divorced him on perfectly biblical grounds! That does not mean she did not forgive him! She could no longer place herself in that kind of danger.
3. Let's define "help meet" I will make him a helpmeet for him” - one who may not only reciprocate his feelings, but take an intelligent and appropriate part in his active pursuits.
Now you tell me with all of globe trotting with only God know who all and that stripper, how in the world could she actively take part in that?
You said: "I am not that familiar with these people. I only had seen Zachary Tims on TBN, but never heard him preach. I only knew he seemed like a good man with a great smile."
Ok, now he 'seemed' like a good man. That is an unbiblical assessment of this man. Jesus said: "You shall know them by their FRUIT..." Matt 7:16 So you have "looked" and judged this man's character with your "eyes" which God's Word expressly tells us NOT to do! You are completely ignoring ZT's fruit!!!
What we have here ladies and gentlemen is a satanic thought pattern. This thought pattern is based on the sight which is not governed by God's Word. There is no spiritual discernment, and no Holy Spirit witness: just how he looked.
How do you know "no one saw he needed help" You are making too many assumptions!!!! God's Word is clear that He tries to warn us when we stray from His Word. The first problem this man had was the false doctrine he preached. (that will take a whole other post) That doctrine leads to this behavior because it is "I" "ME" centered Not Christ centered! It was ZT's responsiblity to seek the true and living God and preach what He gave him. To allow the power of the Holy Spirit to work in his life so that sin would not have dominion over him. (NOT Riva) So what about that? How about other godly council?
You have stated that Riva was also to blame for ZT. Riva was responsible to be loyal to God FIRST!!!! Not even her spouse was above God! She has handled this situation the way God wanted her to. YOU are totally disregarding so much scripture with your assessment of this situation I do not have the time or space to elaborate.
I can not believe you have made such a mockery of God's Word by saying that Riva was responsible for how ZT turned out? That is essentially what you are saying. Each person has to make choices and God allows us to be as foolish as He can stand. Then he let's the natural course of things play out.
Read the Bible and get true understanding before you spew that satanic garbage for all to see.
Satanic thought pattern: Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
To put the blame on Riva for Tim's death is sick and twisted. So let’s say she stayed in the marriage and he kept doing what he was doing? How would that affect the kids? What if he acquired an incurable disease and passed it to her? Who would take care of the four kids then? Your dialogue is ridiculous. What is even worse…you comment and have no clue who the man is!
ReplyDeleteAlso, are you saying that because she divorced him she didn’t forgive him? Really?!?!
You also stated Riva did not do anything to help him. How do you know that? How do you know that she did not beg and plead with him before or after the divorce to turn from the sin and reconcile with her and his children? Oh, I forgot...you figured it out from his smile.
Living4Him
[I love marriage and I still believe that it is God’s ultimate plan for reconciliation even in the most horrid situations"]
ReplyDeleteI am glad to know she said this. Her statements might have gotten her off the hook.
Of course I could say that I love living people and I still believe that it is God's ultimate plan to raise many people from the dead.
I'm angry that this man died surrounded by people who claimed to know God. Not just his local church. But all the church in all the world.
Yet no one was there for him. No one was able to see he was in desperate need of deliverance.
Does anyone really think God cannot deliver still? The church needs to repent and seek revival.
Also this nasty prosperity gospel is damning souls.
Yes I do know the Bible well. I take it seriously. I KNOW why Jesus died on that old cross. I am not in any way blind to the purpose of his death and resurrection.
I have seen and do see the miraculous because God is able to do what is impossible.
I'm angry because Tim's death gives the atheists and pagans, etc. more material to use against Christians.
I wish I could see articles written where the church is repentant and sorry they were not able to help this desperately wounded man.
God is not done with this situation regarding the Tims death.
We will soon see more of his hand at work to show those who call themselves Christians, and even the sinners, that he is still HOLY.
Goodbye and God bless.
I was leaving permanently this site, when I happened to see a reply from a LIvingFforHim.
ReplyDeleteI would like to answer with this.
A woman whose husband was on drugs prayed for her husband.
This husband was so on drugs that it was costing him thousands of dollars a day to support his habit.
Let me tell you how much this wife prayed.
She prayed so much for him, that anyone who went to her home found her praying.
She was on her knees so much that this was all she was doing.
She prayed earnestly and unceasingly for him. Pray and more prayer this is all she did was pray for her husband whom she loved.
This is how God answered her.
He was walking along looking for his next fix money. When he heard God say to him.
"You think you are suffering now? You are going to burn in hell."
This man became so utterly terrified at hearing from God himself that he begged God for mercy.
He repented on the spot.
God then led him to a room where he spent time with God and God delivered him. He became the man his wife needed.
I know another case where the wife prayed for her drunkard husband.
God scared him so bad he begged for mercy. God told him that he had given him plenty of chances.
He repented on the spot when God terrified him. All this was done through the prayers of these praying wives.
They determined not to let God go until he saved their husbands.
To the day the former drunkard died he was one of the most holy men in the town.
I know, that God answers prayer.
I know that God can do anything.
So it is impossible for me to understand why this wounded man died.
Goodbye and God bless.
Excellent article Pastor Burnett. No comments needed. You covered everything. I put this on my Facebook page.
ReplyDeleteBlessings....
ךא ךםהד עםג,
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem...we've heard a lot of testimonies, but not all testimonies end the same and prayer is not "magic" or a way to cast a spell on someone...the person must hear and realize and 9 out of 10 these individuals were in a condition to receive from GOd somehow or in some way shape of form...Secondly God didn't overshadow them in spite of what they were evidently willing to learn...
What we have is a case of a person who has rejected the knowledge of God and hold the truth in unrighteousness...You may not like it, but the Lord tells us not to entertain such individuals...(2 Tim. 3:5) Within the context of marriage there is more at stake and a person should ADVISEDLY separate if nothing else...
So far as what you've seen, I've seen a woman MURDERED in front of her 3 children doing what you recommend, by her back-slidden preacher husband...Now you will probably assess that she did something wrong and lost her life because she wasn't in the place with GOd necessary, and that is a bunch of poppycock! She was taking the HORRIBLE advice of a leader that believed in the type of literalism that you believe in...It wasn't the "will of God" that her children witness a public murder of the one that brought them into the world...that was the devil straight out without a doubt.
One can't play with situations such as this and as we have stated, victims aren't to blame for this.
But probable what's the most disturbing (or at least equally) is the thought of being able to discern a person's spirit from a smile...That is about as backwards as I have ever heard...I don't know of anyone who has a "smile epistemology" that will not be totally deceived in this world...Bernie Madoff, had a nice smile...so did Charles Manson according to his most close followers.
Anyone following with that type of measure to discern truth will not walk in truth long...they are deceived out of the gate!
So thanks for the commentary and goodbye!
I don't know why it is the biblical literalists and fundamentalists, who are so quick to blame the victims for what happened to them...
ReplyDeleteLook at it, the WOF blames the one who is sick for not having enough faith to get healed...What kinda garbage??? They even use scripture to support it, twisting up, "by your faith be it unto you"...MESS!!!
Then we have victims of Clergy Sexual Misconduct (CSM) or abuse told that "they" were the reason for the abuse or that they brought it upon themselves because they shouldn't have been so seductive...
Then look, what about the pedophilic minister??? For many the kids themselves are to blame...
The problem is people like that brother or sister, who doesn't hold leaders accountable and judge them by their "smiles" like he/she does...For them facts don't matter, everything is based on their esoteric and subjective receipt of information from somewhere out ion the blue, or a literalism that makes then blame the innocent of not being clean in their dealings...Sound familiar???
Read JOB...you'll see the same accusations coming from "friends"...isn't that a blip?
The "family" whoever that is, is now fighting to keep the medical info sealed and to keep it under cover what the "substance" was.
ReplyDeleteAnother phase of the FIASCO.
Tell the truth and move on CHARLATANS! Close this sordid chapter and be finished. But this is another classic pimpery move...OBFUSCATION!
The cause of death will be delivered within 48 hours, or at least so they say...
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is a fiasco!
I have read the different articles on this young man of God & it is sad that this happened to him without other great leaders in the ministry pulling him to the side to confront him about his insecurities with his flesh. What is even sadder is the body of Jesus Christ gets no glory in this. Our churches & that is about 90% of our churches now focus on personality, prosperity & primping before a camera. It grieves my spirit so I know it must grieve Gods spirit. The body of Jesus Christ is not to be put on stage or in a movie to get the holy ghost. It just does not take money to prove you are holy or doing a work for the Lord. The congregation left behind is still mourning a man & not crying out to God for direction. I have listened to some of his messages on youtube & I was not impressed nor would be led to visit his church. I come from old pentacostal back ground & the bling bling was not a sign of holiness. Now, his children are torn, I am not thinking about the wife because she should have seen the break in her marriage long before. So what was she doing to not be able to be a wife, mother & first lady. If she knew God she would have known her husbands failures, weaknesses & needs to address them before a year or more of infedelity struck. It is the children who are damaged from all of this. Who cares how he died, whether he was gay, straight, on drugs or someone set his death up to look drug related. The truth may not ever come out & really to respect the children & his mother, it should not. The fact is his mother & children need to bring closure to somethings that none of us would never want to face whether we are a name brand or not. Prayer is the best thing to do.
ReplyDeletePraywithangel,
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting and yes this issue continues even if out of site of the news, but it's pretty academic by now. Everyone knows what happened in this case.
Now so far as Riva is concerned, and how she could have "helped" him, I mean a person has got to want help before anyone, even a spouse, can help them.
From what I see Zach didn't exactly want help, or at least he wanted help on his own terms. his continued drug use only damped and desensitized the mind and spirit opening him up to sexual deviance. What was she supposed to do with that aside from pray and continue to raise her family?
In each of our own personal situations hind-sight is always 20/20...so I don't know, but I am sure she is probably saying that she could have done things differently as well, but we have all been there.
Short of the long, this man should have been motivated to get help for himself and to help him live out his commitment to God and the people. Sad thing is that he wasn't motivated to do so.
Thanks again.