Thursday, July 9, 2009

The SIN Factor

Matthew 12:34-35 ~ "34-O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35-A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."

I had not planned on taking time to go further into the Michael Jackson story or related issues surrounding his death, that is at least until I sat down to watch Bill O'Rielly's "The Factor"on FOX Wed. July 8th 2009.

In one of the most strange and insulting interviews that I have ever seen by a "supposed" professional news talk show host, Mr. O'Rielly set out to receive a response from Rev. Al Sharpton on a prior interview with Republican Congressman Peter King Of New York. Remember Peter King openly alleges (against a unanimous 12-0 jury decision) that Michael Jackson was a serial pedophile and child molester and that news coverage of his memorial and events leading to the memorial were excessive and shows that America has totally lost its sense of value and morals. (I got news for him, America had lost much of that long BEFORE Michael Jackson's death, and it began with arrogant individuals like himself...If he could pulled his pious and racist head out of the sand long enough, he may see that, if only but for a minute)

In the response interview segment, Rev. Sharpton's only point was that it was irresponsible for a "lawmaker" (Congressman King) to repeatedly disrespect the rule of law (which he is sworn to uphold) by continuing to make criminal allegations of Michael Jackson's guilt especially since he was acquitted of all 10 counts that were brought against him in the 2004-2005 trial in Santa Barbara, CA.

In a particularly strange exchange, Mr. O'Rielly challenged the statements of Rev. Sharpton who said that Michael Jackson was an influential post civil rights era entrepreneur that opened many doors for blacks in the entertainment industry and had a positive impact on American culture.

Specifically, Rev. Sharpton gave 3 basic facts in support of his statements. He said:

1- Michael was the first black musician/entertainer to break into the short film/video era with the directing of his short story videos which were the first of their kind opening opportunities for industry professionals to expand their talents and impact in the entertainment field.

2- He stated that Michael was a leader, employing and opening the doors for many black entertainers and musicians who would go on to have successful careers and carry on other efforts and ventures of significance.

3- He stated that Michael was the first musician to use his platform to raise significant amounts of money to aid children in Africa to the tune of over $50 Million in the "We Are The World" collaborative venture and further gave record setting amounts of his earnings to charitable causes around the world.


Rev. Sharpton asked Mr. O'Rielly "are these not FACTS" about what Michael Jackson did? Mr. O'Rielly responded by saying;

"THOSE THINGS ARE NOT IMPORTANT"

Mr. O'Rielly then stuck his foot further in his mouth (even though it was already out of his posterior by then) and questioned the race of Michael Jackson's children and Michael's parentage of those children by making this statement;

"If Michael was so dedicated to the cause of blacks, then why did he have white children?"..."You don't become an African-American icon when you do something like that,"

Now, I don't intend to argue either of these points biblically in this post. However these are some observations that I couldn't help but make. Alone either of these statements are horrific and worthy of never watching "The Factor" again. Combined, these statements show the persistent and ever evolving racism, jealously, rage and SIN bound in the hearts of people like Bill O'Rielly, Congressman King and others that think like them.

What Must Be Said

Aside fro the fact that O'Rielly is STUPID, his dogmatic assertions should be examined. First, he tells black people what type of icon, they should have and accept. I wonder who died and made Bill O'Rielly the king of black people all of a sudden, or who gave him his grand insights into what black people need to have? Further, NO ONE questions Angelina Jolie's and Brad Pitt's race or iconic status because they have adopted black children. Further NO ONE questions Madonna's iconic status or dedication and sincerity to the black child that she adopted. In neither case are these stars commitments to their communities or race questioned Why is the parentage of blacks, who wish to parent white children, suddenly called into question, because the children are white? Why is the desire to be a parent across racial lines, considered not being faithful to one's race?

Then let's go to O'Rielly's prior STUPID remark...You mean to tell me, that economic opportunity for blacks (who are American citizens) is UNIMPORTANT? Proving aid to those starving and dying with disease around the world is an UNIMPORTANT venture? Mr. O'Rielly, did you suggest or tell this to Bono? By your standards his works are UNIMPORTANT also???

I suppose the only thing that's IMPORTANT to Mr. O'Rielly is unwanted phone sex and sexting in the afternoons or between shows at FOX studios???

Mr. O'Rielly's statements are from a person who is blinded by hate, and feels that his agenda is the most important thing in the world for all men. Bill O'Rielly and people like him live and seeth hatred covered up with an emotional appeal that sounds good but that does nothing to address issues at hand.

It was to the O'Rielly /King types(Pharisees)that Jesus said:

Matthew 23:27-28 ~ " 27-Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. 28-Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity."

I pray that America will turn back to what works and we already know that's God through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Only he can take the hate and pain away.

Blessed!

Update: Here is a portion of the transcript from the show as found on O'Rielly's Site Part 1 deals with O'Rielly's disregard for the works of Jackson while he was alive. Part 2 Deals with the "white children" issue. The video is in the transcript so you can view both Sharpton's and King's interviews in their entirety:

Part 1

SHARPTON: What I said was that Michael Jackson, in his career, pop culture, broke down racial barriers. First black to get MTV to run black videos, his. First black to get people like Rolling Stone to have blacks on the cover. These are facts. This is not my guess. That "We Are the World" was the first time a superstar got other superstars to help African hunger. This is a fact. You may not like it, Mr. King may not like it, but those are facts. And I think that for me to say that there is for you and anyone else to raise allegations about his personal life doesn't answer the facts of what he did. He brought people together. This is as irresponsible as someone saying we're going to honor President X in history, and I say but President X…

O'REILLY: All right.

SHARPTON: ...in his personal life did so and so. What does it have to do with the fact that he was president?

O'REILLY: I heard — did you…

SHARPTON: Did Michael Jackson not do the things I just outlined?

O'REILLY: Yeah, but they're not important.

SHARPTON: Well, then that's why…

O'REILLY: They're not important.

SHARPTON: They're not important?

O'REILLY: No, what MTV does isn't important. What Rolling Stone magazine does is not important.

SHARPTON: It is important to the millions of people that bought his records.

O'REILLY: And that's OK.

SHARPTON: He is the top record seller in the world.

O'REILLY: Good. Look, you used to work for James Brown.

Notice how O'Rielly caught himself and went from the works of Michael Jackson not being important to MTV and Rolling Stone Magazine not being important. Look at the video to see if you see the same thing that the transcript records.

Part 2:

O'REILLY: Answer me this. I heard a lot of people yesterday — and I think you were one of them, but correct me if I'm wrong — saying that Michael Jackson was some kind of African-American icon.

SHARPTON: Yeah, he was.

O'REILLY: Well, then why did he have white children?

SHARPTON: What does that have to do?

O'REILLY: What does that have to do? He chose to have in vitro by a white woman and a white man. What does that have to do?

SHARPTON: So in order for him to be an African-American icon…

O'REILLY: An icon? An icon?

SHARPTON: Wait a minute.

O'REILLY: Why would he have that choice? Why?

SHARPTON: Because he — I'm trying to answer you. Would you like an answer from an African-American?

O'REILLY: I would. Yes.

SHARPTON: Because he broke all records. He changed music. He brought people together.

O'REILLY: No, the kids, the kids.

SHARPTON: Well, we didn't say he was an African-American — father of African-American children. We said he was an African-American icon.

O'REILLY: An icon? But why would he have white kids then?

SHARPTON: What he did in his personal life and his personal — has nothing to do with his iconic status.

O'REILLY: It doesn't?

Let me know your thoughts.

43 comments:

  1. Pastor Burnett again thanks for another wonderful written post. I do want to say something about Michael Jackson’s humanitarianism and philanthropy.

    I do beleive this is what Rev. Al have been trying to keep in the front of the media is the good that MJ has done in his life.

    I didn't know that MJ is listed in the Guiness Book of World Records for contributing to the most charities ever.

    Many of his projects were/are located in "AFRICA" . “We Are the World” was not just a chart-topping pop tune, it is a continuing source of revenue.


    The following is a list of charities he publicly helped in his life:
    AIDS Project L.A.
    American Cancer Society
    Angel Food
    Big Brothers of Greater Los Angeles
    BMI Foundation, Inc.
    Brotherhood Crusade
    Brothman Burn Center
    Camp Ronald McDonald
    Childhelp U.S.A.
    Children’s Institute International
    Cities and Schools Scholarship Fund
    Community Youth Sports & Arts Foundation
    Congressional Black Caucus (CBC)
    Dakar Foundation
    Dreamstreet Kids
    Dreams Come True Charity
    Elizabeth Taylor Aids Foundation
    Juvenile Diabetes Foundation
    Love Match
    Make-A-Wish Foundation
    Minority Aids Project
    Motown Museum
    NAACP
    National Rainbow Coalition
    Rotary Club of Australia
    Society of Singers
    Starlight Foundation
    The Carter Center’s Atlanta Project
    The Sickle Cell Research Foundation
    Transafrica
    United Negro College Fund (UNCF)
    United Negro College Fund Ladder’s of Hope
    Volunteers of America
    Watts Summer Festival
    Wish Granting
    YMCA - 28th Street/Crenshaw

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  2. jjbrock...this makes me want to cry thinking about this...He didn't have to do any of this. Harry Belafonte said he came to Michael and talked about the plight of Africa and Michael brought together his resources to make this happen

    ..Bottomline he was a human being, like all of us, that had a soul, and tried to fill that hole in his life that only Jesus can fill. He gave cheerfully and willingly and never forgot his people. The bible says we can give honor where honor is due. I don't watch Bill O'Reilly and any of the right wing talk show hosts (I used to, but once I saw they never care about anything that has to do with the poor, needy and downtrodden) ..They sound good and self righteous, but underneath they are full of hate. I always ponder why "in general" whites hate blacks so much. Maybe it is because that no matter what they try to do to us, we still rise, and knock the ball out of the park everything time, we break records in every area whether it is entertainment, sports, politics, medicine, aerospace, .i.e Barack, venus/serena, tiger, Ben Carson, michael, oprah....God has shined on us; we have turned our back on God and that is why we suffer the way we do...Michael was noted as the "entertainer/pop star" that was the most charitable in the guiness book. Thanks Pastor Burnett, this needs to be said. We have to speak for those who can't speak for themselves...

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  3. Thank you both Women of God,

    When a person loses mercy they have lost everythung because our very existence depends upon mercy.

    Now there are a lot of people that will be effected by Michael's departure from this world. One cannot do all that he did without changing something for somebody. Someone will be at a loss. Instead of the pious looking at how they can fill the void that is suddenly left and help people, they criticize what they don't understand and I guess that's apripos, becuae none of these clowns took and of their resource to either help Michael or even any of the causes he supported.

    In essence Micahel (the man) makes his critics look like a bunch of whinin' skunks because they've obviously been outdone by someone whom they've labled as "strange" and "wierd"...That's FUNNY to me!

    Then to the preachers, who remain silent and critical of this man and his life, I say this, forget his lifestyle for a hot minute..."What have YOU done to make things better for anyone else other than yourself BESIDES grab a michrophone?"I mean I wonder has any ministry resources come out of the cauffers to serve the poor needy and homeless IN YOU BACK YARD?

    I can ask this with good conscience and because I have a RECORD that follows me as proof that I have placed the souls above my own needs, but I had a minister STUPIDLY criticize and question me asking why did I seek to have an event (ie:bless people) when I had no money...He told me that it was pastoring 101 to get the "money first"...That's why I cut ties with that FOOL!

    That may be strong language, and gfod forgive me for my sentiments in that area but when church leaders don't care about souls...I GOT ISSUES. Please pray for me, that's a weakness and one that I must work on my temperment with...

    So I thank God that we can talk about this and most of all discover how we can better serve the Lord wherever we are and in whatever he calls us to do.

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  4. God Bless you Pastor Burnett,

    I understand your frustration with O'Reilly as he is a "bit much" sometimes but I want to take a different perspective on what he said. Michael Jackson has done some great things and helped a lot of people and his memorial is just, as we are to give honor where honor is due. Besides his questionable lifestyle choices he had a heart to help people and I will forever respect him for that.

    I think the point that O'Reilly was trying to make was that essentially Michael Jackson was not happy with his "blackness" per se. O'Reilly is pretty much asking (in his own way) how can black people give honor to a man that really didn't like his own "blackness?" I'm not trying to defend O'Reilly or cause an uproar on your blog, but I think he was trying to ask why black people look up to him so much. Of course, Al Sharpton gave a thourough and legitimate answer.

    I watch Fox News a lot as well as CNN and we all know that they are two extremes. I like Fox News because they discuss issues of abortion and homosexual marriage. While CNN has a tendency to make those who stand against those things look like a bunch of ignorant bigots (excuse my lack of better terminology).

    I guess my point is that O'Reilly does say some harsh things but as someone who has been misunderstood by my passion and offended others unintentionally; I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one and take it as him trying to better understand a minority of people who have been misrepresented and misunderstood by the media forever. Unfortunatly it came out wrong.

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  5. Interesting post.

    One question, how would an African American be viewed if he or she agreed with SOME of the points made concerning Mr. Jackson?

    My personal opinion... I think he was a phediphile, (when you give in account what was done to him) talented, but dysfunctional especially after Qunicy Jones put his hands on him, and if he was such an advocate for blacks, why did he go and have white kids, that weren't his biologically(after lying on national T.V. telling the world he was the donor and now the DNA test say otherwise)...Lesbians and Homosexuals have kids like this... How many real men, talented, famous or not, have kids this way? The world didn't view him as black - he didn't view himself as black... (LORD HAVE MERCY ON HIM.. but...)

    I enjoy the FACTOR, at worst I find it amusing how he (Bill O'Rielly) is given a platform to balance out the media that we know today. Do I agree with everything NO! But as for Mr. Jackson, he either found favor with other phediphile in the court system, or they looked past the behavior and all they could see is a "white man" being accused of a crime, he "didn't commit". Go figure, I don't hate Mr. Jackson, God will and shall have the final say in his life upon his death, but if he wasn't saved then that's self explanatory. In most cases people call it as they see it, but most often looked past all the foolishness he did and surrounded himself with (FANS) and have cried and carried on (CHURCH) as if he preached the gospel and died as a Marytr.... So what, he did all this for humanity (WORKS)(MARK 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?)... thats good, but what can BLACKS learn for this duplicated tragedy...better yet what can the world learn from this... The INDUSTRY KILLED HIM, FAME KILLED HIM, WORSHIP KILLED HIM, THE PRIDE OF LIFE KILLED HIM!!! or did he kill himself? Then, what about the kids who didn't ask to be in this dysfunctional situation? Who will grow up confused and "off the wall"...

    Now Pastor Burnett this is just my thoughts... I don't think I'm a conservative white elite...

    T

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  6. Ashley,

    Thanks for your comments and I appreciate the alternate perspective and don't think that you're wrong for what you're saying.

    I think that O'Rielly's comments were based on much more profound worldview than Michael Jackson or his person. Michael wasn't happy with himself, black or white...he needed to be ministered to.

    O'Rielly was so incensed at Michael that nothing and nobody else mattered but his rage and twisted sense of justice. That's a problem. We (Orielly and others) may not agree on issues but don't throw away the benefits that can clearly bee seen and wrap that up in abunch of innuendo and that innuendo is unfounded to make it all seem like it was nothing...To humanity these resources and gifts were something, even to God it's something because he acknowledges it, ALTHOUGH altruism isn't salvific (we know that) but God YET acknowledges it. Doing things for self isn't acknowledged, but doing things for others is.

    ORielly doesn't care all he cares about is his agenda, and that's some of us religious folk too...our version of truth superceeds humanity and we can't effectively minister to humanity because of it.

    Unfortunately, too many people got so caught up in riducule of this man that they forgot he had a soul that needed to be ministered to. That's no better than the world and we know they're on the way to hell.

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  7. T,

    I ain't mad atchya!

    So far as skin and kids that has no effect, we are still black period. The part that set me on edge was that Orielly said, that altruism to the people who received it was unimportant. Ie: because it didn't come from the person he though it should have come from it wasn't worthy of noting. That's both pious and traggic.

    So far as being a pedophile, look at the facts, how can a pedophile control his urges for 10 years and limit his events to one county in America when he travels around the world? From a standpoint of psychology that's nearly impossible and certainly impossible without God. Too many people that saw the case heard ALL the testimony have concluded what the jury did...INNOCENT. Now he very well may have had other liasions but he's dead and where are they now? Conspiracy theory runs in the face of reason although there is room that the unsaved do what they do.

    Yes, he needed help and the only vehicle that could have adequately provided the help he needed stood behind sinners and laughed just like they did and failed to minister.

    In essence those of us who knew the truth and had the resoource and ability to help could have vicariously KILLED him also.

    I wonder how God will assign blame in this one?

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  8. Pastor Burnett,

    I guess I want to dive deeper into your point. This Bible says that our works on earth are as "dirty rags." Maybe I'm misinterpreting the scriptures (please correct me if I am) but Jesus said that many will come to him crying Lord Lord and telling them all of their great works on earth but he will say "depart from me ye that worketh iniquity." I know this is talking about people who are in the church but who do not really "live" for Christ. But could this apply to unsaved people as well. Yes Michael Jackson had many great works on earth but did he do anything for people's souls?

    I personally believe that leading someone to eternal salvation is a far better gift than anything you could give someone on earth. I am in no way trying to discredit the "needs" of this world. We should do good unto others.

    At one time I was an extreme liberal who pretty much believed that if the lifestyle makes you happy than its ok. I became a liberal on the basis that they help a lot of people. They build schools and hospitals in third world countries etc. I also needed to realize that although they were doing great works on earth the spirit attached to them was sending people to hell.

    I guess my question is how do we (the church) adequatly and respectfully recognize someone's accomplishments but at the same time help people realize that these accomplishments on earth will not help you get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

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  9. I know this is off topic, but, Pope Benedict the XVI has just issued an encyclical, calling for the governments of this world to establish a "world political authority: aka a new world order. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVe3p0vCsxQ

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  10. Anonymous:
    It is "pedophile"....Michael was found not guilty,and the young man he settled with in 1993 has come out saying that he lied and his dad made him and wanted money, now he feels bad; michael is dead now too late..

    Sometimes it is not what you say, but how you say it and what your intentions are...Mr. Self Righteous O'Reilly doesn't want to talk about his personality/sin flaws. Are you calling him a sex porno/addict, adulterer that preys on women that work for him?

    He that is without sin cast the first stone...How can you see the spec in your brothers eye, when you have a log in your own eye...I am just saying.....

    And speaking of Micheal Jackson's works, what does Jesus have to say about it?

    James 2:13-26
    13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
    14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Jesus was just saying......And I am just saying.....

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  11. Also,

    Jesus was just saying......And I am just saying.....

    1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
    18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
    19And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
    20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
    21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
    22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
    23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
    24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    I am not going to let Bill O'Reilly tell me who I can give honor too, who to like, who not to like...If he saw you on the street, he would probably cross the street, what do any of these guys do for anyone in the black community.

    He is a "talking head" whose personal life does not match up with his rhetoric....


    We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we don't know his relationship with God, we don't know if he repented before he fell to sleep; we don't know. I am not listening to a bunch of racists talking heads..I will receive criticism about Micheal Jackson from those in our community who know how to administer mercy and justice and call a spade a spade with the intent on healing and making a change...

    Again I say, there are more issues besides Abortion and homosexuality ..."He that keeps the whole law and offends in one point offends in all...When are we going to focus on Man's fallen sin nature, there is not good no not one and except for the shed blood of Jesus, which makes us righteous.. The scripture is our righteousness is as filthy rags, which is why we need a Savior.

    These "tv pundits" Ranting and Raving about it never changes a thing...

    Titus 3:9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

    just saying...

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  12. Superintendent Burnett:

    In my opinion Bill O'Reilly and many on the correspondent team of that news network are ignorant to a lot of issues. With media being known as the 4th estate I believe the O'Reilly bunch inexorably maintain and report a slanted perspective of issues possibly to genenerate veneration and for the sake of consumerism. I believe the whole Michael Jackson saga is unfortunately inexplicable.

    Yours in Christ,
    Min. D Johnson

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  13. Ashley,

    Thanks again for commenting and let me add a little seasoning to your thoughts.

    You are ABSOLUTELY correct so far as our works are concerned. There is no work we can do worthy of salvation. Nothing that can be done to account for righteousness so far as any sort of gift from us.

    However, works done unto men out of goodness do not go without God honoring, and certainly not without reward. Look at it, God said he rains on the just and unjust right? The sun shines on sinners too. Now he set forth a principle that we should fight and advocate for the poor and those of lowly estate. Why would God disregard the works of the unrighteous, when they attempt to help selflessly?

    To do so would call God's character into question as it pertains to sincerely helping anyone. The question would then be why does God only think it good when a Christian helps someone? remember most of the world is not Christian even at this moment in history.

    So NO WORK that Michael did could send him to heaven but God will yet honor the works that men do sincerely, selfishly and to the assistance of humanity sinner or not.

    The verse that T quoted really doesn't apply in this particular sense. Michael's giving wasn't in order to "gain the whole world" it was out of what he ahd gained and thought to share.

    As Oregonsistah has stated (quite aptly I might add-LOL) As Christians, we are commanded to do much more than we do in service to the world and ultimately to Christ.

    At the end of the day I really think the elite, right (white and black) are intimidated because who they criticized so greatly made them look STUPID and selfish.

    Now how do we balance this?..by doing what we're doing, worshipping God, giving honor to whom honor is due and finding ways so that we can increase HIS name in the earth.

    As you stated salvation is the greatest gift that we can give, but I'll tell you what if a sinner writes a check to our church for us to feed the hungry and we know that sinner got his money lawfully, there gonna be some hungry folk fed 4-real!-LOL

    Love y'all!

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  14. Oregonsistah,

    You came out with that WORD gurl...my Lawwwwd!

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  15. Ashley,
    I just wanted to stop by and encourage you to continue to hearld or preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your points are valid and your concerns are warranted. I find it very interesting that so many christians are jumping on the Michael Jackson bandwagon now that he has passed. I promise you, if this was an average guy with no money, no fame, but the same issues, NO ONE will be singing the whole gospel of mercy nor compasssion. The Bible says that we shouldn't favor a man who is rich over one that's poor.

    Personally, I'm not wrapped up in the whole saga at all, I just wish it would just go away. Sure, I believe that a soul was lost, unless he was able to get it right. No one knows for sure, but I truly believe that he died a Muslim. After all, he had no problems informing the media when he converted, right? People are prasing god (not sure which one) about his service being "christian" people wake up, this was a PUBLIC memorial for his fans. Thereby, this is what people expected, you know the whole "church" feel. It means no nothing. Many people die without having or denying the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, however, it has NEVER stopped one minister or church from performing the service as Christians do. I do agree with Pastor Burnett, the funeral is really for those who are left behind, as the person in the casket has already met there fate. Sure, many will say that I sound like I have no mercy nor compassion, but that's untrue, I'm becoming frustrated at how we (ministers, preachers, pastors, bishops etc) preach on being and staying saved (some may have mercy and compassion, not all)for those who have NO money, NO fame but then when "one of their favorites die" (i.e., Luther, Michael Jackson), the sermon is quite different.

    Anyhoo... Ashley, I pray that you continue to allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you, as its very refreshing to see/hear a young person such as yourself on FIRE for the things of GOD, desiring and living HOLY etc. Keep your head up!!!

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  16. Anonymous,

    You said: "I promise you, if this was an average guy with no money, no fame, but the same issues, NO ONE will be singing the whole gospel of mercy nor compasssion. The Bible says that we shouldn't favor a man who is rich over one that's poor."

    That's the problem, why wouldn't we do that? I'll tell you why because the church imitates secular society too much and has a warped standard of acclaim similar to the world.

    Michael was more visable because he had more and gave more but this could very well have been anyone. Personally, I'm glad it came up because the church needs to gain a better sense of value for the lost. I'm afraid that our program has gotten in the way.

    By the way, Ashley has done well as I have said and all of these commentors have too. It's funny how certain things resonate more firmly at times than others, but all have blessed my soul.

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  17. Thanks pastor burnett, I appreciate all comments and understand everyone's viewpoint. I feel the same about the poor and the drug addict who can't seem to get it together...I have learned a lot in my Christian walk over the last 30 years and know that things aren't always as they appear to be...So, we have to lift Jesus up for the world to see and he said if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me...

    so, one of my favorite songs...The world is hungry for the living Word, lift the Savior up for men to see, He said trust and do not doubt the word that he says and he will draw all men unto me. Lift him up by living as a Christain ought, so the world can in you teh savior see. Bottomline, the world isn't seeing much Savior in us; ..So, if responsibility of lost souls lies at our feet...We have work to do..

    Much love...

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  18. Pastor Burnett,

    I agree with your comments regarding the church and its many programs. Yes, this should be rule and not the exception. You know, the whole, showing mercy and compassion to ALL not just some. I guess, I'm taken aback by this entire situation because even in the church today, these so-called "celebrity" preachers give so much hype and praise to those who are secular celebrities. Meaning, the messages are different, there's no need for grace, mercy, nor compassion because "god knows your heart."

    Regarding the Ashley comment, I wanted to single her out only because I do NOT see too many young folks who have a heart and desire for the THINGS (the heart, desire, plan) of GOD, not the material things (flesh) of god.

    Lastly, if you read many of the posts out there, its almost as if the church has bought into the whole gospel of inclusion message. Just read, you may weep!

    Thanks!

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  19. Anonymous,

    Thanks for commenting again.

    I think I've made it clear that I don't have any problem with any of Ashley's commentary and I also don't think those who've partaken in this convo have either. Ashley is a very good commentor and certainly welcome to comment at all times and provides some very poignant questions and valuable insights and observations...

    If there is a problem, the only problem would be that you hail her commenttary as "spiritual" and by virtue of your approach, others as either less spiritual and I don't agree with your assessments in that regard.

    All of the comments have been spiritual, on point and emphasized varying points of view regarding this situation. To say that what JJBrock noted or Oregonsistah said was not as spiritual or insightful is only because there is a bias present in your evaluation of the commentary. That's not a condemnation but merely an observation.

    Look, natural things are equally important to God. A person that ministers spiritually and does no natural move to affirm their spiritual belief is handicapped. Pray for me all day, but when I need a dollar at least teach me how to go out and make it. Natural contribution is important and whether a sinners contribution or not, is not minimized by God as somehow being less valuable. I think that's the point that's being emphasized.

    Michael's works didn't save him. However, we are to find joy in the possibility of salvation for all men...The service wasn't a hinderance to that and whether it was for the fans or not is aside from the point. In fact Paul wouldn't have cared under what circumstance Christ was preached or glorified, as long as he was preached and glorified. No there was no preaching there, but there was submission to God and his will and his name was proliferated...I didn't hear Allah, Budah, Confuscious or anyone else being proclaimed at the memorial...did you?

    What happens is that our "religious nature" sometimes gets in the way of us even seeing Jesus actually go forth and when it doesn't happen like we expect, in the context that we expect, we call it less spiritual or fail to see the spirituality of it, and I believe that's a flaw and something that we should learn from in light of this event.

    I Appreciate your comments also and I know there are people that love to worship people in and out od church, but we haven't done that here. I hope that makes things clear.

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  20. Pastor Burnett,

    It's obvious that you missed my point, however, I will move on from there. My only purpose was to encourage Ashley to continue to stand... It appears that you have taken offense to it, how? who knows... No need to stay there... I'm moving on!!!!

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  21. Anonymous,

    No I don't think either of us missed any point, and I certainly didn't miss yours. Why not encourage ALL to stand as no one has rendered and unspiritual or ungodly points or conclusions?

    Bias is the problem and that has to do with the emphasis of certain things that you don't think have spiritual value.

    My position is that it's all valuable within it's proper context and cannot be overlooked or merely written off as insignificant because it was a "natural" act done by a "sinner" as opposed to a spiritual act done by a Saint. It may be offensive to learn that God doesn't hold to that standard.

    What was Abraham's 7 fold blessing in Gen. 12? One was "I'll bless them that bless you" v3. Do you see any conditional criteria upon the "blessers"? No you don't. Is there a distinction that the "blessers" who were not inrelationship to god would receive any less of a blessing? No there isn't. In fact the key to that whole verse was rooted in the fact that "them that bless" would be those NOT of the household of Israel. God established by his own thoughts that he would treat them no less favorably. Now tell me that's not spiritual???

    As I stated Michael hasn't been worshipped around here by any means, however we acknowledge that God does honor anyone who lifts themselves to serve humanity, and because others point that out makes them no less spiritual or any less on fire for the Lord.

    Thanks.

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  22. When things don't easily fit into our presuppositional world we tend to get lost now don't we?

    By the way Peoria Pastors Assn. was me. FYI.

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  23. Pastor B,

    I can encourage whomever I choose, that's my opinion and perogative. Just like you decided to post about Michael vs Luther Vandross, does that make you a respecter of persons as well? Should Luther fans and family deem you bias?

    My point is/was, I've read everyone of her post and I enjoyed reading them. As I cited before, its refreshing that a young person is on fire for the LORD. Not this just this post ALL of her posts

    To see you respond in such an offensive manner is not only interesting but questionable. I'm mature enough to say, hey, let's again to disagree. Hence, my last response to you. Not running. From what? Just saying... no need to go further.

    No need to respond, as I will no longer dialogue with you because its not going anywhere.

    Enjoy!

    SMH!!!

    P.S. I didn't need discernment to know that it was you in your post under a different name. Ain't god good????

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  24. Anonymous,

    First of all I hate when people don't address the real issues, but only address the issues they want to address. Then superimpose their lack of understanding on others. I saw none of that until you posted, we are fully capable of understanding your arguments and argumentation, but that's ok, I too find it interesting.

    You said: "Just like you decided to post about Michael vs Luther Vandross, does that make you a respecter of persons as well? Should Luther fans and family deem you bias?"

    Now, Luther's lover never was hidden and when he shows up on TV as his "life partner" that speaks for itself, so what is there to be bias about??? Your approach here is called a "red herring fallacy" a diversion from the real argument or inquiry, and certainly one that's not hidden in the least.

    You also said:"To see you respond in such an offensive manner is not only interesting but questionable"

    First of all my response wasn't offensive or based on an offense. Secondly, I have no idea what could be questionable about pointing out the fact that all commentary in this post was both spiritual and poignant. Me thinks this be another fallacy called an "Ad Hominem" once again a very weak and obvious one to say the least in trying to softly attack me to lessen my credibility.

    Only avvid conspiracists do this type of thing in tandem. Y'u-know the type that see a conspiracy in everything and everybody who has opposing an views...in fact those people ususally do what you do, refuse to listen to alternate and especially opposing points of view. That's sad but true.

    BTW (since you like to use initials):I have many different duties I make the mistake sometimes of not signing my name to every post but you can tell who I am...are the letters SMH your initials or some code for your amusement? and yes, you're right, I won't let you come here and insult my readers or posters without callin' you on it.

    Thanks

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  25. Mr. Bill’s remarks are so NOT relevant to me. He has unconfessed sins that he won't discuss but constantly judges others seeMatthew 7:1-5. I strongly believe that Mr. Bill makes statements that are right in his eyes so he will say things that are stupid and callous. I thought that you made a great point concerning Madonna and the Brad Pitt adopting children of other races. Love should transcend race so I don’t understand his point. I do understand Mr. Sharpton’s point but his point is not so important to me either although he spoke the truth. I hope that race would stop being such an issue because it causes dissention. When will he and Mr. Jackson do their “reverend” duties? My strong opinion is that O’Reilly gets his motivation from hate and self righteousness. The race of MJ’s children was his major point about a man who more than likely died without God then he just might miss the rapture. Love should be first and foremost. My heart grieved because MJ had so many fans, riches, idol worship…but possibly no Jesus!
    Michael Jackson is judged and believe me and judgment is righteous! I am happiest when we focus on the things of God. Pastor, we look to you to keep us focused on the Lord. I appreciate you taking the time to expose these wolves.
    Love,
    Meka

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  26. Meka,

    Thank you sister, that was very encouraging and refreshing.

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  27. First of all I am a black woman, I did not find anything that Bill O'Reily said to be racist. As a christian, I fill that the contribution of a man who admitted that he slept with boys, not note worthy at all. Everthing that Mr. sharton talked about won't matter in the end with God who we should be make the things of God first and formost in our lives. The media make him (MJ) a saint when that is far from the truth he did not even believe in the God that we knew. He was a Jehovah witness, they neither believe in Jesus or Hell, I know because at one time I was in the grips of that cult.If Mr sharton knew Christ Jesus than his job should have been showing MJ the way to Christ. Yes MJ did some nice things but our works will not get us to heaven only submitting yourself to the Lord Jesus Christ and living a life of faith will get you to heaven. The thing that makes me said about MJ passing is thast he did not know Christ, because if he did he would have showed the fruit. He would have known the Truth and the truth would have set he free, all the pain he live with through out his life would have been taken away by Jesus. To Jesus Christ be the praise. K. Nichols

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  28. K. Nichols,

    Thanks for stopping to comment, but I'll tell you what, IF you ever adopt a white child and another white person stops to asks you why you, being black, would have a white child, and that you've disgraced your race because of it, and you don't think that's a racist comment...I don't know what to say to help you with that...'cause sentiments like that are RACIST all day in every part of these here United States of America...

    What the problem is when it comes to Michael Jackson we let our religious feelings and sentiments get in the way of his humanity, as if we'll be dishonoring to God for giving a true and accurate assessment of a sinners life...that's not good but that's exactly why we can't see anything wrong with the critics assessments of Michael and his life.

    Look, I left Michael's music in 1982-83 when I got saved. I haven't listened or kept up since then, but as a saved man, I'm not the least bit intimidated to give an accurate assessment of both his life and the words of the critics and all I know is that most of the critics are proving what they are, jealous hearted, sin-filled, liars that can't stand the fact that somebody that they held as "wierd" and "strange" was so much more important to many more people than they will ever be....That's how I see it, it doesn't take anything away from me, in fact it only makes me more determined to do a more effective job for Christ...If what we call a SINNER, can do all of what he did for humanity what's our hangup??? That's what needs to be assessed...

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  29. You make me laugh. sin is sin and his sin leads a lot of children black and white to hell.He did not adopt a white child he paid for a white just like Angeline J. bought a child that does not make what the did right either. Remember God weighs the heart not man. I aplaud him and Oprah for the good they do but hell is busting wide open with good intention. K. Nichols

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  30. K. Nichols,

    I guess I'm the 5th "King Of Comedy" now huh? Maybe the 4th 'cause somebody gotta replace Bernie right?

    I don't see anything I said to be particularly funny or anything to laugh at but...hey...unintentional comedy is always the best comedy.

    You said: "He did not adopt a white child he paid for a white just like Angeline J. bought a child that does not make what the did right either."

    What is that about??? So what IF he and they did?...How does that act (a legal purchase) make his heart wrong??? It certainly doesn't make the critic right in any sense.

    Your judgement, assessment and evaluation in this matter is skewed and that's obvious to see. I'm glad he didn't leave the children in YOUR custody...that would have been traggic.-LOL-Comedy king stikes again!!!

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  31. 2 Tim 4:1-6 Preach the word preach the word and when it is all said and done preach the word. It's too bad that he did not leave them to Christian they would have had a chance he never had.A person who cares for humanity will preach the word. Peter do you love me Jesus said then feed my sheep. MJ need to know that Jesus died for him also. as He died for that thief on the cross. We can not as saints sit back and not warn our brothers and sisters of what a everliving life without Christ will be like. I am sorry that you seem think that I have no compasion for humanity, had not someone warn me of my life I may have died in my sin. As i said before I am sad that MJ died without ever knowing the love of Christ Jesus. I thank God He saved me and set me free. I pray that his children will know the freedom that their dad never knew. I pray that the church on the whole will wake up Will Jesus find faith in the church when comes back, are we in the great falling away of the faith, 2 Thes. 2:1-12. Yes I am heavenly mind because of that I will be some earthly good, I will praytill Christ comes back. For I am seated in heavenly plaace through Christ Jesus. To Jesus be the praise

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  32. Don't get it twisted, "I ain't mad atchya"...I don't believe that sinners should come between real Saints, however I believe we have a responsibility to approach things in a balanced manner...For example (and this is totally off the subject of the person)

    Bill Gates and Warren Buffett...They are agnostic and atheist...In other words they have no regard (or very little regard) for the WORD that we cherish. They are by far and large responsible for the greatest humanitarian giving in history. In fact Bill is vicariously responsible for us being able to communicate on computer (PC's) and much that we do to spread the gospel through the internet...

    When they die, is their contribution to humanity worth any less than it is if they were a Christian? Of course not...Obviously we know that they will be in hell without repentance, however NONE of that makes their works any less effective for the purpose of which it was done.

    Now, neither of those men walk in a self-exalted state of existence, however neither of them are saved.

    I doubt however at death that they will be criticized to the extent that this man (MJ) although they have contributed some of their wealth to anti-Christian causes and will flat out tell you that what you hold dear means nothing to them and it's more of a fantasy or myth than reality...

    So PLEASE don't stop praying, that's certainly in order, but we can't simply write off contribution to humanity as if it means nothing to God...They do. Yes we'd rather folk be saved but in all of that, we can still be thankful and know that God is on the throne, without him nobody can do anything and that he exists and reigns supreme and that final justice is his.

    So thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

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  33. I wonder if all his humanitarianism mattered when he faced the LORD on June 25?

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  34. Hey now, sometimes we say things out of disagreement, which I don't mind, but then other times we say things out of a lack of the jealousy of our hearts or lack of understanding and many times those things are offensive to God.

    No matter what God thought of anything Michael did or didn't do, as a BELIEVER you'll have to answer to God for what your humanitarian efforts are or are not for sure:

    1 John 3:17-18~"17-But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
    18-My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.


    James 2:15-17~"15-If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16-And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17-Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."


    Those are courtesy of Oregonsistah.

    And this one is courtesy of me:

    Mt. 25:31-46~"31-When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32-And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33-And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34-Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35-For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36-Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37-Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38-When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39-Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40-And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41-Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42-For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43-I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44-Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45-Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46-And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

    So you can jeer at Jackson all you want, humanitarian efforts are certainly in God's order saint or sinner.

    We don't lack knowledge of what saves, but it's unbiblical to criticize what God sets forth as a standard for all humanity to follow.

    In addition, statements such as your show little or no concern for those who were the benefit receipients of his humanitarian efforts, and some of those were dedicated Christians also. So please be careful as not to mock God or the order he established among men.

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  35. To Whomever is tuned in:

    By the way, true Saints don't take pride in teh destruction of others, especially them that served humanity...We want all hearts to turn to the one true and living God who is able to save souls...

    That's why O'Rielly can't be my source of critique. He knows nothing about that...

    Then Christians must be careful where they get their info too...I know a Christian who makes his critiques from a web site called Blossip...ie: Gossip on the internet...That's a shame...We don't need sensationalism to tell the truth, all we need is truth.

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  36. Dont know that site. the scripture you use pertains to saints. The bible was written to believer and not non believers. It says a brother that would mean a brother in Christ Jesus. In the end our good works will mean nothing. Eph. 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through fait, and not of works, lest anyone should boast. Read also verses 10-13. We are to be about the work of God .What ever we do in word or deed we should do all in the name of Jesus. MJ did not not do these things for the glory of God. To God be the glory. Peace out.

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  37. your argument is worse than any atheist I know...to say the good works mean nothing shows a serious lack of any biblical understanding...Why then do anything good at all?

    Your assertions aren't founded even by twisted scriptural references. Further, the scripture was written to the edification of the believer but the standards are for mankind saved or not saved...the bible is the perscription for the whole of mankind ie; Adam = Man and Mankind which were given rules and observances to go by...

    I tell you what, I can see why the church is in trouble with biblical illiteracy and laft wing fundamentalism at all times highs like this...this is ashame.

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  38. You are correct We want all hearts to turn to the one true and living God who is able to save souls...
    But if they do not repent and confess JESUS, then they shall not enter the kingdom of GOD. MJ was an entertainer for the world and WE are to be in the world and not conformed by the world. So to go on and on about his good deeds does not profit "what matters most" "JESUS the CHRIST". The bible is and was writing for Saints, not the world, so we can not use script to support good deeds for anyone in the world.

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  39. K. Nichols or the latest Anonymous if you're the same,

    Your arguments are lame, unbiblical and can be better argued HERE at WORKS which is a post dedicated to you and your faulty line of reasoning and assumptions.

    Please don't contaminate this thread any further with your unbiblical dogma.If you do, I'll either delete it or move it to that thread.

    Thanks.

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  40. O'Reilly is a bully, who rarely lets his guests get in a word edge wise. His modus operandi is clear...as soon as he's caught with his foot in his mouth, be becomes beligerent and throws reason right out the window. By their fruits we shall know them...

    Jim, Whitehorse, YT

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  41. Jim,

    Absolutely right. The only reason that's not clear is because of bias.

    Thanks.

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  42. I listened to this TV interview again and I am STILL taken back by O'Rielly saying that what Michael Jackson did wasn't important...Then tried to change the subject and say what rolling Stone Magazine and others did wasn't important...

    That was a mess.

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  43. ...Just adding thoughts. God will judge every angel and human by His Word. We're all subject to the bible and what it says. Mike and Bill included. Fortunately Bill is still here and has opportunity to know God. Mike isn't. Bill could benefit from an experience like David had with the prophet Nathan. Surely Mike could've benefitted from the same.

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