Thursday, September 9, 2010

Islam, Submission With No Peace Pt. 5

"Burn Baby Burn!"
Acts 19:14-20 ~ "14- And there were seven sons of [one] Sceva, a Jew, [and] chief of the priests, which did so. 15- And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16- And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17- And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18- And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. 19- Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all [men]: and they counted the price of them, and found [it] fifty thousand [pieces] of silver. 20- So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Pastor Terry Jones of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL. has called for a Quran burning service to take place this Saturday Sept. 11th 2010 and has come under fire by everyone from the Pope to the President himself.
 
The top General in the war on terror in Afghanistan, Gen. David Patraeus, believes that the actions of the Pastor will incite an Islamic uprising against the soldiers on the ground. Still, others such as conservative Sean Hannity further believe that this effort will not only endanger the troops, but will also be a waste of effort, lumping the "good" Muslims in together with "radical" Muslims, insulting all, and creating larger problems and anti-Islamic hysteria. 
 
Pastor Jones, not having any regard for the Quran as being a "holy book", or at least a book inspired by the true and living God, concludes that the Quran, at best, is simply good fuel for a bonfire and seems is using his proposed actions as tool and negotiating piece and wedge to offset a planned Mosque proposed to be built close to the World Trade Center site or what we call "Ground Zero".

One thing that has been consistent is that the media suggests that since the Pastor only has "fewer than 50 members" in his congregation that his voice is not worth listening to, but yet they listen. FYI the number of followers of a pastor or leader has has NOTHING to do with their authenticity and use of and by God. God does not speak or use leaders "more" because they amass a crowd. Neither is a greater or more sizeable crowd an indicator that the leader has more dynamic insights than others. Some of America's most dynamic and powerful leaders have had small congregations. In addition, not every leader resides in areas where they can attract large followings; are these leaders less significant, less profound or less important because of where they live? It was the heretic gnostic Cerenthus who was able to amass a large crowd and congregation while preaching a false gospel and a false Christ during the apostolic age. Apostle John confronted Cerenthus regarding his heresy and knew of it, but that did not dissuade followers. The number of followers in no way validates nether does it invalidate the voice of the servant of God nor the message.

Should the book be burned?
(See the end of the article for updates)
Let's Try To Find An Informed Position 
 
Since error and human morality that begets error abounds on both sides of this issue I though it well to point out some facts regarding this issue. With that said there is no way to simply claim that Christians have a mere biblical interpretation difference with Islam...Islam serves and worships another God. A God not of, by or from the bible and one not referenced as one to be worshipped in any biblical text.
 
Before all that, let's be clear as to what the Pastor's rights are. 
 
1- By declaration of freedom of speech under the United States Constitution, this Pastor has a right to burn whatever books he chooses to burn according to civil codes within his community. Having this right does not in any way signal or suggest that he should do such. However, we should be clear that free speech to one is a right not necessarily free for all. Freedoms must be paid for and used responsibly. Some claim that the Pastor's proposed use of his free speech rights are being handled irresponsibly, but I believe there is a greater observation to be made when looking at all of the individuals who have chimed in and are chiming in on this issue.

From our President Barack Obama on Good Morning America 9/10/2010
"If he's listening (Pastor Jones), I hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans," the president said. "That this country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance."..."And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform," Obama said."
Here are additional reports from other individuals who have chimed in on a national scene:

  • US Attorney General Eric Holder Associated Press 9/7/10 WASHINGTON calling the planned burning of the Quran at a Florida church "idiotic and dangerous".

  • Tucker Carlsen 9/9/2010 Good Morning America ~ "He's a lone wacko, he represents noone."

  • Ret. General Colin Powell 9/9/10 The View ~ "Whether he burns the Quran or not on Saturday they (the Islamic world) wonder has America changed, will hey tolerate this thing or not?"

  • 9/9/2010 CNN reports that the FBI has "no specific credible intelligence" indicating that the burning of the Quran will cause a problem in the US. Only that historically terrorist activity and recruitment to radical Islamic causes increases as a result of events like this.

  • Matt Hoh 9/9/2010 MSNBC ~ "It plays into Al-Qaeda's recruitment propaganda."..."We're talking about a very small amount of people here."

  • Megyn Kelly and Mike Emmanuel Fox News 9/9/2010 ~ report that the US State Dept. issues a world wide travel warning for all American's abroad, concerned about the potential backlash if Pastor Jones continues with the Quran burning...Megyn claiming that he (Pastor Jones) is a "nutcase"

  • Whitehouse Press Secretary Steve Gibbs 9/9/10 Press briefing Washington, suggests that someone in the Whitehouse if not the President himself will speak to Pastor Jones and dissuade him to not proceed with the book burning plans because all top officials think Americans, especially the military, will suffer abroad as a result.  
Look at the fear of exercising freedom from the leaders of a free world. For this reason I find it appalling that the top leaders of the most free country on Earth cower when a citizen within its boarders lays hold on exercising his free rights to the freedoms that have been paid for by the blood of martyrs through the years.
"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men." ~ Samuel Adams (1722-1803), was known as the "Father of the American Revolution."
To acquiest from freedom when those freedoms are lawfully exercised within a person's home is nothing but political equivocation and reversal of all that America stands for. Yes, we acknowledge that we are a tolerant nation and that there are consequences for all freedoms that we share or have in common and some freedoms must continue to be fought for, but to regard he "potential" threat of reprisal so fearfully certainly doesn't resemble those who would lead the world into freedom teaching them why religious freedom is good for the country and the world.  

It makes one wonder, why have America's leaders have been absent when terrorist attack free people? We can go back years but here are a few instances during the last few years that America made no effort to speak against...or at least these vocal leaders (or their predecessors) were deafly silent against. Where were our leaders during these times:
"A group of 500 Muslims wreaked havoc and spread panic in Masohi, in the Moluccan Islands, during clashes with police and local Christians. As a result, 45 homes, a church and a village hall were set alight. The spark that set off the violence is an in incident in which a teacher allegedly insulted Islam in front of some Muslim students." ~ Spero News 12/11/2008 
"LAGOS, Nov 20 (Reuters) - Islamic militants burned to the ground thirteen churches and several houses in a remote northern Nigerian town after a Christian student was accused of blasphemy, police said on Thursday. Irate youths torched churches, houses and shops late on Tuesday in Kazaure, some 80 km (50 miles) north of Kano, a northern provincial capital where hundreds have died in religious clashes in the past three years. The dispute began when a Christian student was accused of insulting the Prophet Mohammad and a group of Muslims were not satisfied with the response of school authorities." ~ Reuters AlertNet 11/20/2003
LAGOS, Nigeria, May 21 (Compass Direct News) - Scores of Muslim youths on Wednesday (May 19) besieged church property in Kano state in northern Nigeria, destroying two church buildings and a pastor's residence. One of the buildings and the pastor's house were set ablaze on the premises of the Evangelical Church Winning All (ECWA) at Kwasam, in the Kiru Local Government area, while another building under construction was demolished. Youths reportedly numbering more than 100 in the predominantly Muslim area stormed the church grounds. "The problem started when some Christian youths of ECWA church were converted to Islam," the Rev. Lado Abdul, chairman of ECWA district in Kano, told Compass. "They swore that the ECWA church would not remain in the area, as they would do everything possible to chase Christians out from Kiru." 5/21/2010
01/23/2010 INDONESIA North Sumatra, two Protestant churches burnt: “too many faithful and too many prayers”by Mathias Hariyadi ~At least 1,000 people set fire to the Pentecostal community places of worship. According to local Muslims, the two buildings did not have the legal permits as “churches.” The Nahdlatul Ulama admits the violence of radical Islamists against Christians. In 2009 in Indonesia, 35 cases of violation of religious freedom, 28 against Christians.Jakarta (AsiaNews) – A crowd of at least 1000 people burned down two Protestant churches last night in Sibuhuan (district of Padang Lawas, North Sumatra). The blaze was the culmination of tension between the faithful and the local Islamic community, tired of seeing ” too many faithful and too many prayers ” in a place not registered as a church. Atlas Shrugs
"Muslims attacked a Christian village in central Nigeria on Saturday, axing eight people to death and burning seven houses and a church in fresh religious violence, an army spokesman said. "It's true eight people were killed," Lieutenant Colonel Kingsley Umoh said. An AFP correspondent saw the bodies, as well as the burnt houses and church in Mazzah village, near the city of Jos, where deadly religious clashes have occurred a number of times in recent months. Umoh said Fulani Muslims entered Mazzah between 1.30am and 5.00am local time, shooting sporadically in the air to lure sleeping residents outside their homes. "Seven people were killed instantly with machetes while three others were seriously injured. One of them died on the way to the hospital," he said." 9 News 7/18/2010
Is there strong condemnation when these things and things like them occur? Instead, in this case, top US military and social and political leaders of this country claim that America's "image" will be damaged and that soldiers already on the battlefield and equipped for WAR will be further  placed in harms way???
 
What Is That?

It's about 9,000 deaths too late (since 9/11) to worry about anyone being in harms way for an American citizen exercising his or her freedoms! Both President Obama's and top officials disagreement and non support of this Pastor's rights and cowering to the "potential" fallout as a result of an American Citizen exercising their freedom (no matter the wisdom behind it) display hypocriticalness, weakness and provides the additional fuel that radical Islam needs by continuing to  meticulously exploit American values. This is in the plan of the radical element of Islam as the following video displays:



Consequently, noone questions the rights or results toward the "free world" when radical Muslims exercise their rights to terror and ungodliness. Were radical Muslim Clerics afraid when terrorists attacked any US installation, people or military bases? Does anyone yet remember the unprovoked attack against the USS Cole? What was the impetus for this event and mass murder during a time of peace? That wasn't done by many or most Muslims, we readily acknowledge that fact, but it was done by terrorists who happened to believe in radical tenets of Islam and those that used those tenets as a source of strength and courage to carry out their murderous deeds. These facts cannot be denied.
USS Cole where 17 sailors were killed and 29 others were injured
Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the attack.

Over the years, as demonstrated by the preceding video, there has been a steady flow of atrocities leveled upon the Islamic and free-world and in particularly America in the name of "religious freedom". Most of these attacks have been perpetrated by individuals who proclaim Allah was their inspiration acknowledging that radical Islam is alive, well and very active within America. To deny these elements exist or to suggest that they are somehow coincidental results of misinterpreted Quranic verses or Hadiths is incredulous and down right insulting to anyone who has studied this topic. American public media and politics however is consistently playing into the hands of the most radical elements of terror, providing misinformation and dodging the real issues. It is insulting for the media to perpetuate the false claim that Islam and its Shari'a  law is somehow "misunderstood". It is an atrocity for Christian religious leaders to stand and declare any system which does not hold that Jesus is Lord as somehow equivalent to Christianity, biblically supportable and desirable for people seeking the true and living God. 

We're Not Mad At Islam,
We Simply Reserve The Right To Tell The Truth,
Portray Anti-Christ Beliefs Accurately, And Live Freely 

  • Note: Shari'a Law is the Law of Allah contained within the Quran and the Sunna (the saying, practices and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad) every faithful Muslim follows Shari'a. Shari'a exceeds all other law whether natural or spiritual and is the only law wherever Islam rules or exists. In most formal situations Shari'a is not invoked many times because of barbaric results.  
We yet remember the fiasco of Rev. Franklin Graham and the statements he made toward Islam and the political and social response that he received when trying to simply exercise his freedoms and accurate portrayal of Islam. This is the controversial part:
"He (President Barack Obama) was born a Muslim. His father was a Muslim; the seed of Muslim is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim; his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham said, adding later in the interview, "you can be born a Muslim. You can be born a Jew. But you can't be born a Christian."...Graham added, however, that he did consider Obama to be a Christian today: "Now, it's obvious that the president has renounced the Prophet Mohammed and he has renounced Islam and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe the president is what he has said."
Rev. Graham is yet locked out of the military for those statements.
2- With all of that said, it MUST be clear that there is a difference between terrorists and believers in Islam. Though the tenets of Islam are what they are as confirmed by many and most Islamic Clerics across the globe, individuals should not be confused as to assume that all Muslims practice, observe and are taught the same set of principles. Similar to Christians who reject certain aspects of Christian teaching, this type of diversity permeates Islam and Islamic teaching and practice. If Pastor Jones is guilty of anything, he is guilty of not distinguishing the difference between Islam and terrorism and being overzealous to set forth Christian beliefs but for primarily using his actions as a tool for negotiation, which is unwise. If God has truly instructed him to do this, it cannot be negotiated in any way or manner and should not be averted no matter what the President or nation says.  

To be clear however, all practicing Muslims cannot be blamed for acts of terrorism and atrocities that we face as American or other individuals around the globe. To take this position and paint with such a broad brush is foolish. Example: I and millions of Christians like me are not responsible for Catholic Priest rapes, molestations, and indiscretions against children and youth alter workers and other individuals in their church. Should all Christians be labeled as molesters because of some Catholic priests? We could go on and on through many different practices and failures such as this to draw parallels, but I believe the point is made. Individuals should be measured by what flows from them. If there is hate, it will come out and be seen and out of the heart flows the issues of life.

Secondly, terrorists come in Christian, non-Christian, and anti-theistic packages also. Some in a loose sense, even terrorize churches by their discord, ungodly actions, and criticism of the church. All terrorists are not one in the same.

Against Politically Correct Media

3- To speak to the media and those who want to simply gloss over some of the more radical elements of Islamic teaching, you should know that Islam as a religious and worship system, is incompatible with Christianity. There are many reasons, but here is some of the most pertinent:

  • Though Jesus is said to be sinless within the Quran and Muhammad a sinner, Jesus is relegated to nothing more than a mere prophet who was superseded by Muhammad over 500 years after the life, death burial and resurrection of Jesus. In fact, according to the Allah inspired and "pure" pages of the Quran, Jesus never died on the cross. He was merely taken away with God, and Judas died in his place. Therefore any reference to a resurrection can only  be figurative and not literal.

  • In addition, Jesus cannot be God as is claimed by Christianity. To associate a man with God within Islamic teaching is "Shirk" which is the highest form of blasphemy and according to law deserves death.
Within Christianity, these positions cannot be compromised under any circumstance. Historically and biblically, a Christian holds that Jesus was not only man but also God and that only through and by his death can anyone be reconciled to God or obtain forgiveness of sins. These two views CANNOT be reconciled and both claim to be "inspired" or given by God.

Telling the truth about Islam should be encouraged, however in this it is discouraged. Both political and social figures want information regarding Islam suppressed and only wish to present a sanitized Islam in step and in tune with mainline Christian dogmas and beliefs. Islam is not simply a nice religion. It is a complete system with laws for living, prophetic utterances and direction and political and social mandates. These mandates come from the text of the Quran itself and the Sunna. They are called Shari'a. The Quran is further interpreted and directed by the Hadith. To rid one's self of the Quran is only part of the battle...the Hadith is where the power and life direction lies within Islam because the Quran is said to be so complicatedly beautiful to understand, onlyMuslim clerics can accurately interpret its message.  
Note: Jihad (struggle) is an obligation of every faithful Muslim for his or hear faith. This "struggle" is not for peaceful coexistence, but for for complete subjection and rule with Allah as the supreme God and Muhammad as his prophet. All other Gods and religious systems are rejected.
Biblical Basis

4- In referencing Acts 19: 14-20 it is true that ungodly books and information were burned up to indicate the supremacy of Christ, the change of the community and because of the fear of God upon the people. However, this burning was done freely and out of freedom exercised by people who once held such practices and had been drawn away because of the work of God in their lives to lay their former practices down. Therefore, the instance recorded within Acts was TOTALLY diferent than what we see Pastor Jones calling for with the Quran burning. In Pastor Jones case I have not seen a former Muslim requesting that his/her former book be burned up. Here we see a pastor taking a religious artifact that he does not value and simply discarding it while knowingly insulting others in the process. Although "insulting and individual" is not a measure for a righteous act, if Islam is wrong (which I believe that it is) it can be wrong without being burnt, at least by me! There is too much of a political emphasis on the Pastor's actions and he has entered into a political debate that is uncalled for.

With all of that said, it is in the Pastor's RIGHT to do, but the wisdom is questionable. In Acts, the community came voluntarily to rid themselves of valuable past artifacts called "curious arts". Those who formerally owned the books gave them up. They submitted to God and did not rub their actions in the face of any opposer. This is the difference. 

Christianity should be practiced boldly and without apology, but also with humility, and mercy for those who have been blinded by this world and the devil. I have not heard Pastor Jones say that God told him to do this act. There can only be one of two paths followed...IF God said it, he must do it (although I find it hard to find biblical support for God saying it)...if not, he should consider the implications of exercising his freedom.
Note: Fatawas are religious rulings and opinions from top and highly respected Muslim clerics often rendered in effort to clarify texts of the Quran or certain Islamic practices. The most popular Fatawas identify and clarify aspects Shari'a law such as prohibitions against women working with men and physical dress and garments that should be worn by Muslim women. various sects of Islam follow Fatawas issued by various Clerics.
Conclusion:

One will ask, am I against what Pastor Jones has proposed? After examining the issue I can say that pastor Jones certainly has the right to do what he plans. Pastor Jones wisdom in doing this may be lacking, Pastor Jones biblical basis for doing what he plans to do does not exist. However Pastor Jones, as far as I know, has not insisted that God has directed his actions.  

American political and military leadership's support for the freedoms of Pastor Jones is certainly lacking and non-existent. Politicians and military leaders have disappointed me by not displaying to the world, the boundaries of American freedoms with political grandstanding during this.

American media are more propagandists than anything. They, the media, have sought to revise Islam even condemning Christianity in the process. The media has and continue to set forth inaccurate information regarding Islam and what Islam believes and approaches any opposition in an over critical manner while giving assessments of islam and current Islamically inspired atrocities a pass in the media and social environment.

One thing is for sure...this small stone is destroying what was thought to be a rock!

Blessed!

Updates:

9/9/2010 6:00 PM CST~ According to Brian Williams of NBC Nightly News Imam Musry, a Florida Imam, has promised that Imam Raoulf in New York has committed to moving the Mosque from the near Ground Zero location. Imam Raoulf has issues a statement that he will not compromise his plans nor his religion. Pastor Jones, based on Imam musry's statements, has subsequentely cancelled his plans for a book burning at least temporarily. The news at this hour is reeling. The news is amazed because the pastor has stirred such a controversy although only having 50 or less members.

9/10/2010 5:42 PM CST ~ Once again, according to Brian Williams of NBC Nightly News, there is no plans by the Muslim community to meet with Pastor Jones. In what appears to be a bait and switch tactic, or a move described in Islam as telling a lie to further the cause of Islam, Pastor Jones and company were told that they would have a meeting with the Imam of New York to discuss moving the planned Mosque in exchange for his agreement to halt the Quran burning planned for 9/11/2010. This is a classic tactic of radical Islamic teaching.

68 comments:

  1. Hello Pastor and Supt. Harvey Burnett,

    I haven't spoke to you in quite sometime, but God Bless you in Jesus Name. I thought I would show you this link of this Pastor in Memphis which I and my wife thought is was so ridiculous to see this Pastor be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul teaches us in Romans that we are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16). Jesus also says in Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. We shall never compromise our faith. Here is that link.

    God Bless Pastor,

    Minister Michael Johnson
    COGIC

    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/09/09/dnt.muslim.christian.welcome.wmc.html

    ReplyDelete
  2. Good stuff.

    One thing that I find confusinh though Pastor is that it is obvious that muslims are a violent set.

    Look at it, its not just terrorists that are carrying on and burning flags is it.

    If and since Islam is so peaceful why the fear in the first place?

    I am not saying that the Pastor is correct but what I do know is that thise "peaceful" notion of Islam has been blown to bits in my view.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The Rev. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson made some interesting comments about Pastor Jones on Countdown with Keith Olbermann last night.

    He stated that the pastor was engaging in acts of rhetorical terrorism by his bigoted words.

    He stated that the pastor was not living up to the tenets of his faith by not being loving and tolerant.

    He also stated that the Bible says that Jesus has some who are not of this fold - suggesting that unrepentant Muslims who refuse to come to faith in Christ were included in this biblical context.

    In addition, he emphasized the fact that Pastor Jones only had 50 members as if the size of one's congregation determines their spiritual authority.
    In other words, he joined the bandwagon of those who have demonized Pastor Jones.

    Incidentally, I don't necessarily agree with his methodology; however, I find it interesting how Christians and non-Christians are treating Pastor Jones.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Kevin,

    Dyson has no value to add to the conversation. I admire his oratory many times but he sounds as if he loves to hear himself talk.

    So far as the points that were made, at least they were consistent. Pastor Jones can't be faulted for trying to do something to make a difference and do something that he thought was right.

    Look at this: In a community that has 50 people, which is common in the Midwest has a church with 20 members. Is their voice less valid? Y'u- know what, that church has almost 50% of the towns population...name a church in any major city that has 50% of the population...20,000 members in Los Angeles or Dallas is no place close to 50% of the population...

    So by their own standards, aren't mega ministries invalidated in large cities? I mean I can put my finger on some country churches that have a much better rate of attendance from their community...

    Fact is membership does not validate a ministry or God in a ministry. Jesus had 12 followers and a bunch of women. Couldn't have been more than 200 people at any one time. He even thinned the crowd out when it got too large.

    This is a gut-check for many in the church. Will we buy into this lie that the voice of some can be marginalized? These people have called this pastor every name under the sun because they feel he's insignificant...That's the tragedy.

    Tell you what, I'll take him over them anyday...

    Blessed.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I am tired of these Rev's that never preach the gospel.

    Dyson is an inclusionist. No matter what anyone says, there can never be peace if Jesus is the only way. To do what Dyson wants, that point would have to be dumbed down.

    Why would a man go on national TV and blast the Church?

    What on earth does the size of the church have to do with it in the first place?

    It was said about Paul and Silas tha they turned the world upside down (Acts 17:6). Scripture tells us that God delights in using the overlooked and insignificant so that He alone will get the glory (I cor 1:27-29)

    Does not God love to use people that people overlook? Base things,

    A person with any sense would question how comes such a small congregation is getting world wide attention?

    Is God using this mans decision to get the attention of the world?

    Is it possible that millions of people will be hear that Christ is the only way and that Islam is a false belief?

    I heard it this morning.

    Our God has a funny way of using unlikey situations for His glory.

    I am so hurt for him that many in the church have blasted him to bits!

    I too would prefer Pastor Jones over these weak so called leaders.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Paul,

    I agree...the FACT is that the bible and the quran are two totally different works with 2 totally different basis for truth. This humanistic morality and value statements aren't worth anything.

    The church can criticize Pastor Jones' actions as I have done, but I'm not about to question his position or love for Christ.

    Look, we can all work on method etc...but the Love for Christ isn't in question.

    I'm like you...is God using this in a greater way for the church to gain an opportunity to preach the true gospel and demonstrate why belief and faith in Christ is a superior position? We certain can't count that out.

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  7. BTW,

    Thanks for that link Minister Johnson...good to hear from you and glad things are going well!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Pastor,

    I knew you were going to have something to say about this (smile). I will not question the Pastor's love for Christ, but however I will question his motive, for which we know there is a motive behind everything we do, the question is, either its positive or negative. And my opinion it is negative, due to the fact it was not Holy Spirit inspired, now am I saying everything we do has to be Holy Spirit inspired, of course not, for if we know God expects something of us, then we should do it, and not sit around waiting for the Red Sea to open, when we know what to do. We should'nt condemn the pastor, but once again in my opinion he showed a lack of discernment, there are many things going on in the body of Christ that need to be addressed, and the burning of the Quran is not one of them.

    I know the Quran is not the inspired Word of God, due to the simple fact that it constantly quotes from the bible, but the bible never quotes from it. Now I'm reminded of an episode in either Acts or Ephesians, were Paul preached a message so powerful, that the people went and collected there books of falicies and burned them all, some say the total monetary sum of the bks were in the millions, but notice this was a move of the Holy Spirit across the hearts of people not a sanctioned event. I personally prayed against this action and I know of assuredly, I wasn't the only one. This action for some reason was reminding me subtely of the Crusades, and we all that know our history know what came out of that, there are Jews and those of Islam who haven't forgotten the hospitality of so-called christians.

    But I believe the pastor got ahead of himself w/emotion instead of being sensitive and we all have gotten caught up in that in one form or another. Christ doesn't need us to get caught up in burning the Quran, but what he does need for us to do, "is to contend earnestly for the faith." In other words live it out in front of those who we believe walk in error. The burning of the Quran most assuredely would not have accomplished that, but fed the rancor of the most violent Islamic sects and also those who are suppose to be of the body of Christ who have a false understanding of what true patriotism is.

    Once again pastor thank you for being sensitive and posting this.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi Pastor,

    Once again, a very well thought out and presented dissertation about the issue at hand. I would like to add my opinion to one of the points you made: "To be clear however, all practicing Muslims cannot be blamed for acts of terrorism and atrocities...should all Christians be labeled as molesters..."

    Whenever Christians commit heinous acts (RC Priests), the overwhelming majority of the Church speaks out against those acts, and requires that justice is brought to the perpetrator(s). In contrast to the muslim community, that rarely speaks out against its own when they commit heinous acts. As you partially pointed out, where is the outrage whether expressed by the media or by islamic communities, when for instance religious minorities are murdered and persecuted??? Hundreds of Christians are murdered each month in islamic countries around the world, and no condemnation is heard from the pulpits of peace loving imams, or islamic community leaders (CAIR, etc...).

    Seems to me that by remaining quiet, you are complicit in the act.

    Jim

    ReplyDelete
  10. Sorry it took me so long to get back fellas:

    Jim,

    You said:"In contrast to the Muslim community, that rarely speaks out against its own when they commit heinous acts."

    Yes, that is a problem. i haven't heard a Muslim Cleric denounce these acts through and by using Islamic teaching whether Quran or the Hadith or the Sunnah...They will render a moral value statement, but none based on what their religion teaches or holds...

    Now, I am not a repository of Muslim and Islamic thought or news, I only say I haven't read or heard any cleric do such, especially those that have a solid voice in the Islamic community.

    If someone has such information please let me and us know, we certainly don't want to misrepresent Islamic sentiments regarding the issue.

    Tony D,

    It seems as if Jones did nothing, then cowered,and broke totally under the pressure.

    If I was convinced God told me to do this I would have followed through...the problem is I don't see any biblical support for aggressively burning a book when a nation is not riding itself of a complete culture...In the OT God commanded to burn and destroy all because he was riding the Earth of cultures and worship systems that were not only dangerous, but those that had perverted all righteousness, perverted man and mankind and threatened to destroy the Earth.

    Islam can be said to be resurgent Baalism...it's certainly astral and many say worship of the "moon god" (which was basically baalism )...

    This never should have been used as a political piece or a negotiation tool for some mosque...The President on down should have fought FOR this guys freedom even if he didn't agree with the decision or proposed action...AMERICA lost so much ground internationally and in our own public personal freedoms with this incident...It was and is ashame.

    ReplyDelete
  11. BTW:

    Could you believe that Governor, "Just Lemme Feel It" Paterson had a comment regarding Pastor Jones??? This guy is a sexual freak extraordinaire...That was like the pot calling the kettle and the whole warehouse full of kettles black...What a total trip....

    ReplyDelete
  12. Millions of people have heard that Jesus is the truth and that Islam is a false religion.

    I Praise God for that alone!!!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Pastor Burnett, everyone and their mother have come out and condemned this man.

    Governor Paterson says Pastor Jones wanted 15 minutes of fame. Was it not the media that ran this man down everyday?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Those all are barking here on ISLAM must know that it is the fastest growing even after a lot of suppressions and oppressions....Paul??? FIRST READ BIBLE WHAT IT HAS TO SAY IN ..

    1.
    John chapter 14 verse 16:
    "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

    2.
    Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

    "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
    proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

    3.
    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:


    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

    4.
    prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:


    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

    "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

    "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
    of Jerusalem."

    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
    (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

    [Deuteronomy 18:18]


    ?????????

    If you are a REAL CHRISTIAN....& follow your bible/Thora?????? The you have to come to ISLAM. Let me know if you have any more doubts(I know u will not post this)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Arshabbir,

    Please...if one is a "real Christian" then the first thing they do is reject Islam as the perversion of truth that it is...

    Believe me, we don;t need to look at "similar" words and word parallels. We can look at the message itself...Islam proports to be from God, the same God who revealed his message to over 3 million people at Mt. Siani, who saw him and heard him and spoke to others including the whole nations over the years...

    Islam was spoken to ONE man in a trance who proported that he himself was unsure if he would be in heaven because he was an admitted sinner with at least 2 wives...

    OK, we have a choice to believe what a SINLESS Jesus taught vs. what a defiled and SINNER Muhammad taught...

    Which one do we chose??? I think the choice is simple...

    We have a Paul who says IF anyone preaches any other gospel except for the one Jesus delivered let him be accursed...

    Which one do you think we would choose or what do you think we should do???

    I'll take the TRUTH of God's word anyday over the heretical ramblings of Islam. There is no peace in sin and disunity with God.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Herver,

    Which of the given verses can you deny? you are still speaking even after I clearly kept infront of you? As a christian do u follow what bible has to say or you follow what the church has to say????? DO NOT UTTER NONSENSE WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT OUR PROPHET MUHAMMED(PBUH).....I never said Jesus(pbuh) was a SINNER.....It is the CHURCH which is WRONG & SINNER..... Jesus(pbuh) in entire bible never told that he is God. then why he is treated as God?? and also God didn't do SEX with Marry to gives birth Jesus(pbuh).....Marry was still virgin even when she was holding Jesus(pbuh) in her womb. Jesus(pbuh) is a mighty messenger of Allah(God). I repeat, If you follow bible, you should accept ISLAM....first read your books before you can speak. I am avaliable to clear any sort of your doubts...All Praises belongs to ALLAH.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Arshabbir,

    I have no reason to believe what you are saying at all. Why? the very FIRST verse you quoted

    John 14:16 ~ "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

    One of your primary problems is that you don't understand what the word "another" is in this text.

    The word "another" is "állos" which means one of the same kind; another of a similar type.

    This word directly refers to "comforter". In other words it is an adjective to describe what the "comforter" is or would be. This word refers to "nature" or being of a thing.

    Example: you cut down a tree and make 2 chairs. Both of the chairs are of the same type. They are both of wood. They both have the same nature yet they are different. They are not one in the same.

    From a scriptural standpoint, the correct interpretation of this is that they are share the same nature and same essence.

    The contrast here is that Jesus was referring to the "another comforter" similar to his type and kind or one who also shares his nature and essence.

    That leads to this:

    John 8:56-59 ~56-Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57-Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58-Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59-Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    Jesus claims that HE existed and exists BEFORE Abraham. This is not meaning existing in Abraham's presence of some other twisted view. This refers to the existence of his being as in order of succession BEFORE Abraham existed as a person or being.

    The Jews understood EXACTLY what Jesus was saying and wanted to kill him for it. What was he actually saying?

    He was saying that HE WAS AND IS GOD. Abraham delighted to see "his day"...NOT the day of Muhammad....JESUS DAY!

    So Jesus refers to himself as being God...this is just one act of doing such, therefore John 14 MUST by virtue of being consistent refer to the "another comforter", who has the same nature and essence as he himself has. A being that is also GOD as well. A being that shares his nature and essence.

    Was Muhammad God?

    If you say yes, that is SHIRK! and according to Sharia you deserve death.

    If you say NO, then we are in agreement with at least that and you are FORCED into agreeing that John 14 had NOTHING to do with Islam and or Muhammad.

    If, in context, the scriptures have nothing to do with Muhammad or Islam as Muhammad DOES NOT share the same nature and or essence of Christ...then why should ANYONE listen to you????

    There is no reason to listen to you because you are spouting a LIE!

    The TRUTH is against you and your heretical and blasphemous rambling.

    ReplyDelete
  18. No Arshabbir,

    Before you simply post more heresy, DEAL with the argument I propose.

    Refute my interpretation of the text YOU present.

    You ask me, if I can see the scriptures...I ask you, CAN YOU?

    Please deal with what I said and then and only thin will I allow you to advertise.

    Even if what you are saying is wrong. I'll allow the link, but I won't let you bring something up and not deal with it in truth. If you want to talk scripture, then lets do so in truth.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Before I start.....Let me quote a Quan verse:

    "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)


    “Indeed, in this [Quran] is notification for a worshipping people. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” [Quran: 21:106-107]

    I would like to ask you a single quiestion .....

    Have you ever thought why michel hart a cristian writer in his book The 100 ranks prophet Muhammed No. 1 among all human beings?? :).

    Ok ....Let me answer your questions.......


    MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
    Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my
    words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
    The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like
    Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh)
    was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
    If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the
    Bible who came after
    Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the
    Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
    fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

    i) Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any
    male intervention.
    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]

    ii) Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor
    had children.

    iii) Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
    Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews.
    Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of
    Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

    Words in the mouth:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from
    Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my
    words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

    ReplyDelete
  20. [Deuteronomy 18:18]

    iv) Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment.
    Jesus (pbuh) said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36). 2


    v) Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was
    rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, “He came unto his own, but his own received him not.”

    iv) Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the
    Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

    2. It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
    “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall
    speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

    3. Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
    “And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he
    saith, I am not learned.”
    When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – “Read”, he replied,
    “I am not learned”.

    4. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
    “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.”
    “His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my
    friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.”
    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of
    Prophet Muhammad
    (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name
    of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “altogether lovely”, but in the Old Testament in Hebrew,
    the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

    Al-Qur’an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
    “And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, ‘O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of
    Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a
    messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.’ But when he came to them with
    clear signs, they said, ‘This is evident sorcery!’ “
    All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides
    applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

    1. John chapter 14 verse 16:
    2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26: 3
    3.Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
    4. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:



    Last but not least.......

    "And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad peace be upon him), then produce a Surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful". Quran Al-Baqara [2:23]

    ReplyDelete
  21. Jesus DID claim divinity with many single unambiguous statements...Dr. Zakir Naik renders the SAME confusion that you do so I understand the source of your confusion.

    Just as he is wrong about the nature of Jesus you are as well. Jesus was God and man. He was theantropist or the God/Man.

    Who has the power to forgive sins? You and I both say God don't we?

    Then how does Jesus, if he were just a man, do this:

    Mt. 9:1-6 ~ 1-And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
    2-And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3-And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. 4-And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5-For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6-But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7-And he arose, and departed to his house. 8But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men"

    Now "Son Of Man" was a term that only Jesus called himself. This was ta prophetic term referring back to the David messianic throne that would last forever, not just until he died.

    Jesus demonstrated that he could remove sins. This was an act of God and not men.

    Further Jesus solidifies his authority after resurrection when he rose and said the following:

    Mt. 28:18 ~ "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

    now if ALL POWER in heaven and earth was his, then what does Muhammad or anyone else have? NOTHING!

    Within scripture we consistently and constantly see the following:

    Jesus shared the Honors due to God, receiving worship for the things that he had done.

    Jesus shared the Attributes of God, for his person character.

    Jesus shares the Names of God

    Jesus does the Deeds that only God does, including remitting sins and I have pointed out above, healing the sick and even raising the dead.

    Jesus shared the Seat of God as he told to Caiphas, that HE (Jesus himself) would be the one to provide judgement upon not only Caiphas, but also on the nation and world. This was an act of God only, not a man.

    Jesus thoroughly demonstrates this throughout scripture and says that he and his father are ONE...not in same being, but same nature and essence.

    John 1:1 unambiguously points out this relationship. What the imam says, may sound good, but it is not true.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Read the bible in Hebrew and give the answer. I hve given all answers for all ur points, giving refernces more than 20 from old & new testament...pls come out from your confusions....May Allah guide you in the right path... aaamen.....

    ReplyDelete
  23. Now the first quote you quote, which is waaaay off topic as I ask you to render a valid interpretation of John 14 since you introduce it.

    You present Sura 2:256...saying that there should be "no compulsion" in religion...what about these Quranic verses however:

    Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

    On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

    Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    That's just for starters and they are all aggressive, not passive talking about defense. they are talking about killing those who don't believe as you.

    ReplyDelete
  24. NONE of the prophets including the Deuteronomy texts refer to Muhammad...that is SHEER and UTTER fantasy!

    The whole of the OT was referring to one man and that is JESUS! Muhammad had nothing to do with anything that was fulfilled in Jesus.

    He came to FULFILL the law and the OT. He did it in his person.

    As I said, that has nothing to do with your first heretical and divergent statements that John 14:16 was referring to Muhammad.

    I think I have PROVEN without any refutation from you, that that verse has no inkling of a reference to Muhammad and does not refer to man at all.

    In addition, Muhammad offers no miracles, does not raise from the dead, neither does he offer a sacrifice for the sins of man.

    Open your eyes to that my brother...Jesus IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE (John 14:6)...not Muhammad.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I don't care what language you read the bible in...NONE of it refers to Muhammad or Islam and the church didn't misinterpret anything...we simply know what it says, and it says NOTHING of Muhammad, with the exception of warning us to not to be deceived by false doctrines of men and devils...

    Galatians 1:6-9 ~ 6-I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7-Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8-But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9-As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

    ReplyDelete
  26. Herver,

    I know that chiristians are good at presenting the verses and words out context(by suppressing the actual fact). But its my responsibility to clarify. :)

    Here you go...

    Three thing are most important before you can understand any verse of Quran...

    1. When was the verse revealed?
    2. What was the situation of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
    3.What was the purpose of that verse at that particular time.

    The verse Quran (2:191-193) is revealed when Makkah's Mushriks rejected the TRUTH and tried to attack on the Prophet(pbuh). It was a WAR context.

    Without understanding FULLY....how can you comment??? U didnt answer my question on Mickel Hartt's THE 100 :). Why a christian has given Prohphet Muhammad(phuh)...Read the comments he has given ..."The first person on Hart's list is the Prophet of Islam Muhammad.[2] Hart asserted that Muhammad was "supremely successful" in both the religious and secular realms. He also believed that Muhammad's role in the development of Islam was far more influential than Jesus' collaboration in the development of Christianity." :). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100)... ???

    and why the following verse is not SEEN to you EYES?????

    "....if someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind... "(Qur'an 5: 32)

    Alhumdulillah(Thanks to Allah), Even after a lot of oppression and suppression, ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION OF THE WORLD. Every year around 30,000 converts to Islam in US alone & more than 5000 converts last yr in UK(including Tony blair's sister-in-law Lauren Booth(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSB-fPRT2kU))
    Brother...come to the right path.....I will pray for you.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Dr. Zakir Naik tries to deliver some insight into what John 14:16 had to be referring to Muhammad instead of the "Holy Spirit" claiming that the Holy Spirit was already present beforehand so how could that be a reference to him?

    The problem is that Jesus defines who he was talking about and he wasn't talking about a man. Jesus says this:

    John 14:17 ~ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    This is saying that who is coming is called the "Spirit of Truth". Now is Dr. Naik's claim that Muhammad is a "spirit"??? or was he a man?

    Further the scripture itself clarifies it and brings it home even more:

    John 14:26 ~ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

    Jesus AFFIRMS that the "comforter" is the "Holy Ghost"...now is Muhammad the "Holy Ghost"?

    Unless these folk are willing to assert that Muhammad is a "Spirit" and that he is the "Holy Ghost" there is no reason to believe what and anything they say. If they said Jesus is true, then he TRULY means what he says and has said.

    There is NO WAY this is talking about Muhammad.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Islam is not growing because it is a truth, it is growing because these folk are having babies and raising their children in this heretical blasphemy...that's why it grows and it is not outpacing Christianity although new conversions to Christianity have slowed on a world population basis...

    And I will agree with you that the Quran was progressive and over the life of Muhammad. That's the confusion of it. There is no singular truth. It oultines relative truth over a man's lifetime. What's true to him at a younger age is not true to him at an older age.

    The bible and biblical truth and the truth of God transcends time and ages. This is another clue as to how we KNOW the Quran IS NOT a word from God.

    ReplyDelete
  29. God said:

    Malachai 3:6 ~ For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Jesus shares that unchanging trait and characteristic of God:

    Heb. 13:8 ~Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Man can't and will not be the same and unchanging. Only God can do this. This scripture is another affirmation of the TRUTH that Jesus is God.

    Both Muhammad and his revelation changed over time and results in a nonsensical recitation of demonic ramblings that strip away the deity of Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I hve given the best example of Tony blair's sister-in-law. Watch that youtube link what she has to say :). Still you are arguiging that Islam is not growing??

    Let me help you with some more links..
    52 Great Famous People Who Converted To Islam 2011-2012
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RawbaoXJ2e8

    UK FAMOUS NEW PAPER :(SEE WHAT IT HAS TO SAY)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343954/100-000-Islam-converts-living-UK-White-women-keen-embrace-Muslim-faith.html

    The data for the census was compiled by the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies

    http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/the-fastest-growing-religion-in-america-is-islam




    Now tell me brother which one should I trust. Your baseless words or the TRUTH which I can see :).

    “Say, “Believe in it or do not believe. Indeed, those who were given knowledge before it (i.e. the righteous among the People of the Scriptures who recognize the truth contained in the Quran.) when it is recited to them, they fall upon their faces in prostration. And they say, “Exalted is our Lord! Indeed, the promise of our Lord has been fulfilled.” And they fall upon their faces weeping, and it [i.e. the Quran] increases them in humble submission.” [Quran: 17: 107-109].

    Come to the right path brother.....

    ReplyDelete
  31. No my friend you come to the TRUTH that Jesus is Lord and besides him there is no other:

    1 Cor. 12:3 ~ Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

    ReplyDelete
  32. The TRUTH testifies of Jesus NOT Muhammad. He was not a mere man as your heresy teaches. He was and is God.

    Heb 1:5-8 ~ 5-For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6-And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7-And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8-But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9-Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    10-And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11-They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12-And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13-But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14-Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"


    He is honored by God and he is unchanging..who is he? Who could he be? Not a mere man believe that...

    ReplyDelete
  33. Brother...I have given all the links/news from US/UK on the Islam growth & who all are converted on top level.... but still you are arguing...:)

    Come to the TRUTH brother....

    It was my responsibility to clear all the points to you. otherwise on Day of Judgement Allah can ask me why i didn't convey the message to you.....

    Finally...

    "Whosoever chooses to follow guidance, follows it for his own good; whosoever goes astray, goes astray to his own loss."
    (al-Isra’ 17: 15)

    ReplyDelete
  34. You come to the TRUTH that Jesus is LORD....that's all you can do for this thread and yourself....

    You haven't presented anything and I've refuted your argument.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Come to the TRUTH of salvation and remission of your sins...

    Mt. 26:28 ~For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Unless Muhammad is willing to shed his own blood and he was sinless (oops I forgot, Muhammad claimed to be a SINNER just like me)

    he can't do a thing for me or anyone else but deceive!

    You COME to the Truth!!!!His WORD is Truth!

    ReplyDelete
  36. I have given links/news/verses/clarifications/references/explanations. You didn't answer any of my questions including the Michel Hart's book also) ...But still you are coming to ur old position. It is not you, it is SATAN who is making you to stick to yourself. MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION....AAAMEN......(I am avaliable on my gmail ARSHABBIR@gmail.com...add me we can chat)....

    ReplyDelete
  37. Brother satan has blinded you all together:

    2 Cor 4: 3-6 ~3-But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4-In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5-For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6-For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

    It is YOU who are lost and must come to the TRUTH. the god of this world and false religion has blinded your mind and spirit.

    That is a TRUTH!

    ReplyDelete
  38. I have to say that YOU are still in blasphemy, do not know the scriptures and are perpetuating a deceit on mankind.

    Your's is NOT a truth.

    You need to come to Jesus who is the only cure for your sins.

    ReplyDelete
  39. OK,

    Since we like producing videos...look at these:

    http://youtu.be/v92l_QW7oQk

    OK, there are 2.5 Billion Christians with over 36.5 million converts from Islam to Christianity annually in just Africa alone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

    Al-Jazeerah, leading Islamic news agency reports that there are 6 million converts from Islam to Christianity annually...this is 16,000 people a DAY or 667 Muslims that come out of darkness into the marvelous light of Jesus.

    From 1902 to 2000 Christianity in Africa went from 1 million to 330 million...Isn't that special...

    http://youtu.be/hBUdRWjSxHI

    Here's another by Al-Jazeerah...In Iraq some Muslims, MOST, believe that conversion is an act punishable by death. Yet JESUS shine through anyway....

    Thank God for the TRUTH!!!!

    CONVERT ARSHBBIR!

    JESUS STANDS AT THE DOOR AND KNOCKS FOR YOUR REPENTANCE AND TURNING FROM BLASPHEMY!

    ReplyDelete
  40. Want to read testimonies of those who convert from Islam and why? Here they are:

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  41. You want to see ISLAM? Here is is:

    MUSLIMS MURDERING A CHRISTIAN

    How DARE you come here to spread this garbage...you are cursed with a curse from the TRUE and living God!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Here are some more facts regarding this:

    A survey of 750 Muslims who converted to Christianity shows five predominant reasons they chose to follow Christ.

    1-The lifestyle of Christians. Former Muslims cited the love that Christians exhibited in their relationships with non-Christians and their treatment of women as equals.

    2- The power of God in answered prayers and healing. Experiences of God's supernatural work—especially important to folk Muslims who have a characteristic concern for power and blessings—increased after their conversions, according to the survey. Often dreams about Jesus were reported.

    3- Dissatisfaction with the type of Islam they had experienced. Many expressed dissatisfaction with the Qur'an, emphasizing God's punishment over his love. Others cited Islamic militancy and the failure of Islamic law to transform society.

    4- The spiritual truth in the Bible. Muslims are generally taught that the Torah, Psalms, and the Gospels are from God, but that they became corrupted. These Christian converts said, however, that the truth of God found in Scripture became compelling for them and key to their understanding of God's character.

    5- Biblical teachings about the love of God. In the Qur'an, God's love is conditional, but God's love for all people was especially eye-opening for Muslims. These converts were moved by the love expressed through the life and teachings of Jesus. The next step for many Muslims was to become part of a fellowship of loving Christians.

    5 Reasons Muslims Convert Christianity Today

    That same article reports that in US citizens convert to Islam at about 50,000 annually while Muslims convert to Christianity at about 20,000 annually.

    But look at what's happening worldwide. It seems that people are rejecting Islam faster than anything even with the threat of death. Here's another:

    "More Muslims converted to faith in Jesus Christ over the past decade than at any other time in human history. A spiritual revolution is underway throughout North Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia. As a result, a record number of ex-Muslims are celebrating Christmas this year, despite intense persecution, assassinations, and widespread church bombings'. These are the words of Joel C. Rosenberg, the author of the New York Times best selling political thriller."

    You can find that at
    Islam Watch

    ReplyDelete
  43. Last but certainly not least, it is a MYTH and plainly a LIE that Islam is growing so fast because of converts. That's not real. Here's where it comes from:

    "Muslim's claim that their growth rate is 235 percent and 47 percent for Christianity. This statistic came from the Readers Digest Almanac and Yearbook 1983, and represents 235 percent increase over 50 years. Muslims always leave off the 50 year fact to make it appear they are going 235% every year. A simple review of the readers Digest study shows that the growth rate of Islam vs. Christianity is directly linked to the birth rate in Third World countries where Islam dominates and not actual conversions to each religion. Christianity has always been larger than Islam. These statistics from Readers Digest are over 20 years old. Further, we do not consider readers digest to be an authority on such matters. Why will Muslims not quote real authoritative statistics from certified research groups who show Islam is not the fastest growing religion in 3/4's of the worlds countries."

    That can be found at
    Encyclopedia Of Islamic Myths

    Now if Arshabbir suggests that numbers and growth reveal or equal truth, then he is on the LOSING side. Christianity is still outpacing Islam. In America there is freedom of religion. I would imagine many of those converts will be right back in church in the very near future as they find the futility and powerlessness of Islam. You can count on that.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Where were you when US was killing 1 million Muslims in Iraq?

    Where was you voice when they attack Afghanistan just for one & killed thousands???

    Where were you hiding when they(christians) support Isralies to kill innocent people in Palistain????


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_Mz8upaPU

    I repeat again ... TRUTH IS CLEAR FROM FALSEHOOD ....no matter how much loud you shout.......Insha Allah Islam will rule the world...& You will see it...You are not accepting the fact but your inner soul is already convinced thats why u r deviating the topics....NUMBERS CAN SPEAK THEMSLEVES.....U still didnt answer my question about the book THE 100- written by a CHRISTIAN giving RANK 1 to Prohphet Muhammad(pbuh).....Herver....follow him....Insha Allah your this world and here after life will be very happy ......

    ReplyDelete
  45. That video mentions NOTHING about the US killing Muslims. It's about Muslims killing other Muslims in Iraq's over-crowded prisons. To prove the point the poster said this of the video:

    "Inside Iraq asks why there is a global outcry when the US is involved in torture in Iraq but widespread apathy when Iraqis torture fellow Iraqis."

    In other words when Muslims kill and torture other Muslims there is APATHY and unconcern from other Muslims as well.

    That has NOTHING to do with anything said, in fact it's a DISGRACE to your complete argument. And I'm not answering a thing because you haven't answered anything that I've set forth at all.

    You presented a video of Nazik to answer the question on John 14:16 and ran away like a scared bird when i proved that his argument was TRASH on a TRASH-HEAL of blasphemy...

    Answer the question...Is Muhammad the "holy Spirit"? Is he "within you"? Is he "with you" forever? This is what John 14:26 said that the Comforter would be. You claim that Muhammad is the comforter, on John 14:26 says that the comforter is the Holy Ghost. Why not address your issues? Or do you need to go pray now??? I would if I were you and REPENT of your sins!

    Let me repeat the verse:

    John 14:26 ~ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Is Muhammad the "Holy Spirit"? Answer the question. Why do you run away from it? Are you afraid that TRUTH will tell you that you are believing the lies of demons??? Is that it???


    Answer the question!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  46. I wouldn't have a religion that was POWERLESS...no miracles, no display of the Lord's work, no forgiveness and remission of sins and an unsurity if one will be saved or not...

    There is a futility in Islam...if you don;t do enough, if you don;t travel to Mecca or give to the poor, or if your conviction of the Shahadda is maybe a little off...you can expect to go to hell...

    SAD religion and sad way to live. Pray 5 times a day and still be lost...FUTILITY and utter horrible darkness.

    Jesus gives LIFE and that MORE ABUNDANTLY.

    John 10:10 ~ The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly

    Drop that DEAD religion and come over here where the table is spread and the feast of the Lord is going on!

    REPENT of your sins and idolatry and serve the TRUE and living Lord and only God, through Jesus Christ the King of Kings!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Is this a justification you are giving for killing??? Remember on thing, the more you oppress the more ISLAM is raising. Lauren Booth's accepting of ISLAM is the PROOF God has show people like you. You didnt give your opinion about it. :)

    Ok coming to ur "verse"......Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is a prophet of God....we DONT twist the words like you do and DONT treat God's messeger as GOD...."without using brains"...

    see the video of 10 min...where a same question was asked and check the answer for the references.....DO NOT COME BACK WITHOUT FULLY SEEING/UNDERSTANDING IT......


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URkzgYxPqgU

    ReplyDelete
  48. NO, don't you come back without understanding why Dr. Nazik is WRONG as he can be. I already posted the answer and the refutation and unless you are saying that Muhammad is the "Holy Spirit" you are chalk full of garbage.

    Here's is what I ALREADY answered and another post from you will not be allowed until you address the issues:

    August 10, 2012 11:42 AM
    Dr. Zakir Naik tries to deliver some insight into what John 14:16 had to be referring to Muhammad instead of the "Holy Spirit" claiming that the Holy Spirit was already present beforehand so how could that be a reference to him?

    The problem is that Jesus defines who he was talking about and he wasn't talking about a man. Jesus says this:

    John 14:17 ~ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    This is saying that who is coming is called the "Spirit of Truth". Now is Dr. Naik's claim that Muhammad is a "spirit"??? or was he a man?

    Further the scripture itself clarifies it and brings it home even more:

    John 14:26 ~ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

    Jesus AFFIRMS that the "comforter" is the "Holy Ghost"...now is Muhammad the "Holy Ghost"?

    Unless these folk are willing to assert that Muhammad is a "Spirit" and that he is the "Holy Ghost" there is no reason to believe what and anything they say. If they said Jesus is true, then he TRULY means what he says and has said.

    There is NO WAY this is talking about Muhammad.

    >>>> As I said, DON'T SAY ANYTHING unless it has to do with this. You've posted that shoddy and blasphemous video twice and it means NOTHING. Further commentary from you will be deleted if it is not pertinent to the issue.

    Is Muhammad the "Holy Spirit" as John 14:26 describes and specifically says that the Comforter would and will be? FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT!

    ReplyDelete
  49. Told You...NO MORE STUPID commentary until you answer the question.

    Nazik BUTCHERED the scripture to assert that Muhammad was the "comforter". I pointed out the that scripture says SPECIFICALLY that the "comforter" is the Holy Ghost.

    WILL YOU RECANT YOUR APOSTASY AND EVIL BLASPHEMY? Answer the question!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Herver,

    I have answered all your questions....but still it is you who dont wnt to accept the TRUTH. You are just trying to bypass all my points and trying to deviate the actual topic :). I repeat see all the videos before you talk...I m sure u will not have any words to speak after tht .....

    and for your infomration

    82% of the bible is written by St. Paul. I m sure u must b aware of this fact.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CfLbYZ9M-Q

    Another point :
    Catholic Bibles are different than protestant Bibles containing more books in the OT usually called Apocrypha by Protestants. They have the following versions that are currently approved:

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/romcath.html

    OPEN QUESTION TO ALL :

    Can anyone in this group deny this fact??



    To all Brothers, check all my videos given in my previous replies...you anyone have any sort of doubts....please do not hesitate to add me on chat ...my chat id is

    arshabbir@gmail.com

    Feel free to ask any sort of questions... any questions...Insha Allah(If God Wills), I will surely answer it. Come to the right PATH brothers.....This is for your own good.....May Allah guide us all in the right direction....aaamen

    ReplyDelete
  51. Arshabbir,

    In response to my REPEATED requests for you to answer my questions regarding John 14:26 which says that the "Comforter" is the "Holy Ghost"...to which Dr. Nazik says that the Comforter is Muhammad, you said this:

    I have answered all your questions....but still it is you who dont wnt to accept the TRUTH.

    CUT and PASTE your answer to that question. I believe that not only are you a blasphemer, you are a LIAR if it can't be produced.

    There is no answer that you've given and Dr. Nazik sick commentary is BOGUS, it is FALSE it is GARBAGE!!!!

    PRODUCE the answer that you've said you've given that addresses the question...Let me repeat the question:

    Is Muhammad the "Holy Ghost"? Is Muhammad "ever present" with us and "In" us as the scripture said that the "Comforter" would be?

    Dr. Nazik said that John 14:16 referred to Muhammad, yet John 14:26 says that the comforter is the Holy Ghost...Dr, Nazik and I both agree that Jesus DID NOT lie and that he IS NOT wrong...

    Who is wrong...Jesus or Dr. Nazik???

    IS MUHAMMAD THE "HOLY GHOST" AS JOHN 14:16 & 27 SAYS THAT HE WOULD BE???

    ANSWER THE QUESTION!
    I need hear no more idiotic rambling from you on anything else. This is from the video YOU presented...ANSWER!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  52. DO NOT, present information through video or otherwise and be afraid to defend it.

    I already know your position is indefensible, but you continue to ramble like a cloned idiot...LOL

    PRODUCE THE INFORMATION REQUIRED, OR COME TO THIS PAGE AND SAY NO MORE!

    ReplyDelete
  53. Arshabbir,

    I told you. asked you and pleaded with you to give a straight answer an all you did was refer us to the same link where the FALSE notion is presented that Muhammad IS the Holy Ghost.

    If that is your position YOU have committed Shirk! Further you are INSANE! Not to mention unreasonable.

    So I don't think we can help you if you are willing to even violate your own religious beliefs to make your argument. Yours is a sad and pitiful realization of falsehood, blasphemy and just plain ole evil.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Arshabbir,

    You REFUSE to address the issue and you can render no more commentary until you do.

    You are a heretic even by Islamic standards. If you believe that Muhammad is the Holy Ghost as YOUR VIDEO REFERENCE says that the "comforter" is...you are not only a heretic by Christian standards, but an Islamic heretic and one who persists in committing SHIRK!

    Let me recap, one more time, because I see that you are very slow and even more spiritually blind...

    You AGREE that Dr. Nazik says that John 14:16 is referring to Muhammad calling Muhammad the comforter. This is one of the references that YOU SAY refers to Muhammad in the NT.

    HOWEVER, John 14:26 says that the comforter IS the Holy Ghost. Let me re-paste it for you:

    John 14:26 ~ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

    You say that Dr, Nazik addresses that issue...HE DOES NO SUCH THING What he does is fast-talks like an Islamic PIMP and and simply asserts he's right and moves on without addressing his own contradiction.

    Rather than admit that HE and YOU are wrong based on what is OBVIOUS and so simple that a child could understand the contradiction...you "pretend" that he answers and move on to Paul.

    Only we're not talking about Paul, we are talking about your HERETICAL application and MISINTERPRETATION of scripture.

    I will hear nothing further from you but a plain admission that you and Dr. Nazik are wrong or that you believe that Muhammad IS the Holy Ghost in your words for all men and women, including your Islamic friends to see.

    I already know you're a HERETIC and blasphemer, by your religion, but this just makes my point.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Arshabbir,

    So far EVERY argument you've presented has been wrong. Let me recap:

    You said that Islam was growing so fast and that was a measure of its authenticity.

    I presented EVIDENCE that was a LIE and nontruth and that Islam is is afraid of Christian growth as growth of Christianity in Africa in has increased from 1 million believers in 1902 to 300 plus million in 2010. Islamic countries are afraid that Christianity is outpacing its own growth and removing people from the ranks of Islam at a rate of over 667 people per day. American converts from Islam to Christianity are yet over 20,000 annually by estimates.

    So you LOST that assumption.

    You said that the bible references Muhammad and presented a hereitical rambling by Dr. Nazik as your proof...I have presented the EVIDENCE of scripture that the he was wrong and that the SCRIPTURE says that the Comforter IS the Holy Ghost...

    When confronted with this information, you run like a cheetah on safari to obfuscate, pretend, and switch the subject and try to assert that I am off topic...well it's a topic YOU presented...

    You may control some Islamic weak minds, but not mine nor this board. Yet again ANOTHER LOST ARGUMENT and missed assertion. A heretical rambling.

    So in short, you have not presented ONE point that uphold your assertion that Muhammad was either prophesied about or that Jesus referred to him. That is a false statement, lie and even BLASPHEMY.

    So I thought I would just recap for your heretical information. I am about to make your blasphemy a front page issue and do an article on you and the lie that you are presenting. I wonder what will true Islamic believers think when they find out that you are claiming that Muhammad is the Holy Ghost?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Here we go Arshabbir, a fresh post just for your heretical and blasphemous arguments.

    Islam, Submission With No Peace. Pt. 8...Is "Muhammad" In The Bible?

    All in deconstructing the fantasies and flat out blasphemies of your most revered scholars.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Didnt you see his explanation in my video? Didnt you see how the orginal Hebrew bible was translated in english?? Hope all your doubts are cleared who is holy ghost and how is Prophet(pbuh) Ok you want to see the name of Prophet in the bibile ???

    here you go ...
    Song of Solmon 5:16

    “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.

    Watch that link from Ahemd deedat in my previous message....all your doubts will be cleared. do not come back without watching....


    Brothers, read your books....open your bible and read in original form. It is upto you whether to accept the TRUTH or NOT...but dont deny the FACTs. May Allah guides you in the right direction .....aaamen

    ReplyDelete
  58. Read the link, I explain how his interpretation is false and how he is (was) an Islamic heretic.

    The Quran said that "Muhammad" was found in the Law and the Gospels. The name "Muhammad" is in NEITHER one. The word similar to the Arabic word being found in the Song Of Solomon but the Song Of Solomon is NEITHER a part of the Law NOR is it a part of the gospels. It is a part of the books of Poetry and Prophecy.

    Your book is WRONG and your evangelists are heretics!

    ReplyDelete
  59. CAN U OPEN UR EYES AND SEE THE EXACT WORD HERE??? I PASTED IT EXACT WORDS OF HEBREW.....CANT U STILL BELIEVE ?????

    Song of Solmon 5:16

    “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.

    ReplyDelete
  60. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG!

    1- Song Of Solomon is NEITHER the Law NOR is it the Gospel.

    2- Muhammadim is NOT referring to a proper name. Even if it was there were THOUSANDS of Muhammads and this reference means nothing.

    3- It is a totally ridiculous argument to begin with. It is what we call "Ad Hoc" which means making something up to try to make it fit what you believe.

    4- Out of the 11 other references, NONE of them fit the criteria either.

    5- It doesn't matter what language similarities exist between Hebrew and Aramaic, there is NOTHING AT ALL that supports the point.

    Your argument is DOA...DEAD On Arrival!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Face up to the FACTS...your Muslim apologists ARE WRONG...they are CLUELESS...they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

    Now repeating the same FAILED and FALSE assertions will make them no more true...they are LIES...There is NO SCHOLAR with any reputation that agrees with their position.

    What they state even violates what the Quran requires...

    The Quran states:

    Sura 7: 157 ~ "those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;

    The Song Of Solomon IS NOT Law or Torah (Which are the first 5 books of the Bible...Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus and Numbers)and NEITHER is it a part of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John) Your argument and theirs is FALSE!

    ReplyDelete
  62. Herver

    are you a Christian????? How can you say that SONG OF SOLMON is not a part of bible??????

    OPEN YOUR EYES ....

    http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?book=22&ver=kjv

    "Mohammadim" ....the word "im" in Hebrew is to represent HONOUR. the meaning of Mohammad in arabic is "PRAISE WORTHY"........you guys have changed the name in the English translation. READ THE HEBREW VERSION OF BIBLE....CHECK THIS BEFORE YOU REJECT.

    I am giving you again the link where it is explained very clearly about this translation blunders....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMz9QFxmklQ
    (COME TO ME ONLY AFTER HEARING TO IT)
    EGO is making you NOT TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH.....
    EGO/ATTITUDE/ARROGANCE are DIRECT forms of SATAN........REMOVE THAT SATAN FROM YOUR HEART.....

    Open your heart then you see the TRUTH.....

    May ALLAH TAKE OUR ARROGANCE/EGO/ATTITUDE FROM US AND GUIDE EVERYONE IN THE RIGHT PATH.....AAMEN...

    ReplyDelete
  63. Arshabbir,

    You said this:"How can you say that SONG OF SOLMON is not a part of bible??????"

    That's NOT what the Quran says...IT says:

    Sura 7: 157 ~ "those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;

    This is a reference to the Torah which are the first 5 books of the Old Testament and the gospels which are the first 4 books in the New Testament...It's didn't say "the bible" as you assert. It is SPECIFIC....and YOU are wrong!!!

    So YOUR BOOK IS WRONG and you are too!

    In addition, "muhammadim" IS NOT a proper name or the name of a man in the text, it is a description. The phonetic sound and spelling is insignificant. This is NOT referring to a man.

    So on EVERY hand your explanation is WRONG!

    Now unless you're dumb, this is clearly understood. So do you understand how to read and what you're reading? If so, you KNOW you are wrong and you have no leg to stand on.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Everyone are seeing here who is wrong...u asked me to give the reference and I have shown the exact verse(where Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)'s name is mentioned). Even after seeing it you want to ACT AS BLIND....

    SIMPLE QUESTION...

    "IS SONG OF SOLOMON IS PART OF BIBLE OR NOT????"

    ReplyDelete
  65. YOU are BLIND...and must be dumb as well...the question is, is the "Song Of Solomon" a part of the LAW or the Gospels?

    The QURAN says that's where Muhammad is found, not just in the Bible, in the TORAH and GOSPELS SPECIFICALLY...YOU ARE TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR OWN SCRIPTURES!!!!

    Go to the other post, the NEW one that debubnks all of your IDIOT ramblings, because I won;t allow you to post any more on this thread. Take all your absurd ramblings to the new post that deals SPECIFICALLY with all of this.

    ReplyDelete
  66. As I reference in the article dealing with Arshabbir's arguments, I point out that if Muhammad IS referenced in the bible he is thoroughly condemned by GOd. Here is one of the references replacing what the text actually says with the phonetic spelling of Muhammad:

    Ezek. 24:16 ~ Son of man, behold, I take away (maḥ·maḏ) of thine eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.

    If this is Muhammad God said that he himself will strike him and that noone should mourn for him when he is destroyed. This stuff is ridiculous!

    That's just one, all the rest of the references are just as bad, one even claiming that he, Muhammad, is a girl.

    Laughable!
    http://bethelburnett.blogspot.com/2012/08/islam-submission-with-no-peace-pt-8is.html

    ReplyDelete
  67. As I said,, don;t change what the Quran says to try to make something fit and go to the other page comments so everyone can see all your little ignorant arguments.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hi brothers...how are you? By the Grace of Allah, I m fine and trust the same at your side. :)

    ReplyDelete

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