Wednesday, November 17, 2010

Preacher "Cower Down"...You Might Loose You Might Loose Your Popularity

Here is a Nov. 2009 Interview with Pastor Joel Osteen on The View.




Here is a Nov. 2010 interview with Pastor Joel Osteen on The View



As you can see a pastor, described by Barbra Walters as one who "tries to stay away from controversy", has done it again. Pastor Joel Osteen has proven once again that he can cower down better than most, to the liberal and social elite. What Barbara meant to say is that Pastor Joel stays away from "certain controversial subjects that would damage his public perception". What is amazing is that the controversy that ignites the church doesn't seem to bother Pastor Osteen. It would seem that any controversy that that would damage book sales, diminish church attendance or otherwise cause cause individuals to question his smile, are the only types of controversies that he will avoid.

Pastor Osteen declares that he doesn't think that homosexuality is "God's best for 'your' life" that is not to say that "it's not God's best making us" and goes on to suggest that Pastor Swilley, who recently announced his homosexuality after years of ministry, may have had an excuse and or reason to become a homosexual...This is certainly a CAVEMAN moment!

I would like to ask Joy Behar, where is her evidence that homosexuality is not a choice? Where is any evidence that individuals were born homosexuals? Where is her evidence that sexuality in general is not a choice? All sex is a choice and inclinations that we now call "orientation" are meant to be handled, dealt with and controlled. They are not intended to control us as individuals. One thing we know for certain is that the human race would not exist without heterosexual sexual activity. This by nature is normal and in line with the existence of life itself. Out of control "orientations" not only produce homosexuals, it also produces rapists, pedophiles, polygamists, masochists, swingers and a host of other types of sexual deviations and deviants.

Is the realization that what a person likes is wrong or unacceptable something that individuals should apologize for? I think not, otherwise we owe every prisoner in prison a pardon and a do-over no matter how heinous the crime.  No criminal liked the judgement of their sentencing judge and or jury, but should society apologize? This is a ridiculous notion.

On Civil Rights And "Backlash"

Does making note that homosexuality as a sexual practice and lifestyle is wrong create an hysteria and backlash against homosexuality? ABSOLUTELY NOT. What about preaching against adulterers? There are certainly some of them in church and out of church. Is there a "backlash" against them because of the church's stance on the issue? Tying abuse, mental stress, and bullying to the sin of homosexuality may be novel and may sound like a valid reason to accept homosexuality as a practice, but in reality is one of the greatest deceptions perpetrated by the homosexual rights proponent today. The problem is that one can insert any sexual practice for homosexuality and make the same argument. tying the argument to issues of civil rights is yet another cop out. It is a cop out partially because homosexuals can stop being homosexuals and all sex is a choice, whether one knows it, realizes it or not, whereas race and ethnicity is permanent, cannot be changed, genetically inspired and is not in the same category.   

On "Homophobia"

Sin causes us to like things that we shouldn't and the sin of homosexuality is no different. It is not modern thinking to pretend that something damaging to both the body, mind and spirit is valuable or good. To do so is the ultimate fantasy and far from reality. The word "homophobic" is a made up word that does not apply to anyone who denounces homosexuality as a valid sexual and relationship practice. We also deny pedophilia, murder, rape and incest...are we "phobic" against them? NO...we simply pronounce and stand for the TRUTH of nature and creation.

The Cost Of Ministry

It may cost associations, political aspirations and our life to stand up for and pronounce the truth of the gospel clearly and every preacher that focuses on crowds, attention and manages popularity and public perception is simply not ready to be used by God.

John 6:59-69~"59-These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60-Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61-When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62-What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63-It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64-But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65-And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66-From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67-Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68-Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69-And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

Real Ministry is not pretty and cute as the deceivers have made it out to be. Real ministry is about facing ugly situations, standing against the wind, placing one's self in the way for the sake of God, right and the community that needs direction of truth. Unlike the part bible that Woopie reads, the bible actually teaches that  God is NOT the only one we answer to here on earth. We answer to one another as we are accountable to one another. then, the preacher, the god sent and God inspired preacher is a key part to the plan. The bible still says:

Rom. 10:14- 15 ~ "14-How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15-And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

The God sent preacher and minister is essential to the growth of a healthy and blessed community.  That minister may not be popular as other count popularity, but to do the will of Christ is the goal and must be the aim.  Don't cower down to the enemy, the life of the community may be in your stand!

Blessed!

75 comments:

  1. Wow I needed to hear this Pastor Burnett. I was at a crossroads of what I was going to do as far as preaching the truth and preaching in fear because of what people think of me. Today I asked God to show me what I needed to do, because I was confused. My heart and the word was speaking to me for righteousness and my pastor and family were telling me to be quiet and speak only "loving messages" no rebuke, no ministry of warning, no telling folks the truth or anything like that.

    I feel I'm at a breaking point in which God is taking me away from something and giving me another mission similar to how the first 3 Chapters of Ezekiel went.

    Pastor Burnett you are COGIC you know how it is for young ministers. We have to fall in line, be obedient and only speak what the pastor tells us. But how can we follow that if God has already giving us our mission? If He has called us to speak the truth.

    My uncle told me last night that if God had called me to warn others that he would also tell my leader the same thing. And that I need to follow his leadership.

    You once said that God minister's are to point to the truth plainly and clearly. I am hindered in doing that at the church I'm at. All my family is there and it is were I grew up. Any Advice?

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  2. Minister,

    The first thing I will say is that I'm glad you chimed in and shared. I pray courage and strength upon you.

    1- You are not a man created in man's image.

    No matter what man has done for you, they could have done nothing without the direction of God. Ultimately you owe noone but him. However, that knowledge is not meant to be held out as a "chip" that you wear on your shoulder, but a humilifying point of reference that God is in control of all things. So humility is the key.

    2- Being in subjection does not mean being out of control.
    Allowing yourself to come under authority, even if that authority is wrong is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength. I sat under a Bishop who in his old age almost crushed a church. I can't remember how many times I was put on front street, embarrassed and yet praised at the same time. I remember coming home in tears on Sunday after seeing souls that had come to be saved simply receive a handshake and a pat on the back.

    That wasn't my battle to fight but it was my experience from which I learned. I did learn. I learned about me, my perceptions of God, his church and others. It was worth the pain because of what I do now...I can take it!

    3- Standing up for truth does not need approval. If God has given it to you to say or do, you need not repent (Rom. 11:29) That is the proper application of that scripture...we like to say that God won't move his gift if you do wrong and that's a ridiculous sentiment...God has no sinners doing HIS work for his purpose...that's another message, but anyway...

    I learned early on to not preach what Bishop or pastor wanted to hear. I preached what God gave me and if I had no opportunity at my church, God opened the door elsewhere. If you have a message he will open the door for delivery. That leads to the last point:

    4- When God has given you something you can hold it until the appointed and appropriate time. Remember, it is HIM that is working in you to his will (Phil. 2:13) the tail can't wag the dog. If HE has given it, HE is the one that oversees it's delivery. If you can't control it, you're either in the wrong spirit (Prov. 25:28) or not applying the best wisdom by not knowing what you're asking (Mk. 10:35-44)

    I short, patience and love will win the day. You must think of the souls that will be exposed if you leave. If their issues are less than yours then you can be justified in leaving. However, if those that have confidence in you, will be let down, exposed, or uncovered if you leave, then you should stop, look and consider the ministry that you are actually performing...The quagmire is that ministry is not about you being in a place that gives you comfort...TRUE ministry is uncomfortable, and committment to souls, even if you're not the pastor, is challenging...

    My question to you is are you up for the challenge?

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  3. I must agree. I was very disgusted by his display on The View. He is a coward in the true sense of the word.

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  4. To anonymous,
    I do agree with Pastor Burnett. I also understand where you are. COGIC culture has little value for "young ministers" unless they can preach really, really, really well. And I mean in terms of hooping.

    Otherwise you can expect to be relegated to just a person who dresses up on 1st Sun and helps out with assorted odd church jobs.

    However this does not have to affect your personal integrity, witness and convictions per instructions from God. Whenever the command of man conflict with the word of God, obey God. That doesnt mean be nasty, ill tempered, seditious or the likes but stand firm in your convictions with grace.

    Leaving a place never truly brings you to the fullness of God's will unless of course you have gotten confirmation from the Lord to depart such a place. The scripture is replete with examples of God keeping individuals in a holding pattern --even under persecution-- until his plan for them was ready to manifest. Yet, such things did not exempt them from personal integrity and faithfulness. No different for you.

    There will be times when you may have assert your convictions to your leader. Do so with respect, grace and candor.And be prepared to deal with any repercussions from it.

    I remember once our jurisdiction held a banquet in a Masonic Temple. Pastor mandated attendance for all ministers, elders etc. I went to him and told him I would not attend nor would I purchase a ticket. I told him why. My purpose was not to undermine his leadership but to let him know where I stood on the matter. I didnt go to other ministers and influence them. He told me that he wished they wouldnt have had it there, but he was just following orders.

    Regarding preaching. When you are allowed to speak, speak what God tells you UNLESS you have been given a topic. Be obedient and stay on topic. Be obedient and stay within the time constraints. This is right and a testament to your character.

    There is not need and certainly not biblical to cause sedition (look up that word) in a local church you have voluntarily joined yourself to even if the leader is doing/permitting things that are unbiblical. If asked, answer with wisdom and sparingly supporting your answers with scripture, but also encourage people to talk to the leader not you. You do not want to be some default sounding board for people seeking to cause problems.

    However anonymous, NONE of the admonitions Ive shared can prevent you from engaging in personal ministry per your call from God. In fact you need to practice so that you perfect your ministry. Outside of the local church you are free to do as God has bid you as long as you represent yourself well as a minister of Jesus Christ.

    Trust me that when GOD is ready to move you, it will happen. There were several times when I wanted to leave because I was treated unjustly and frankly I was angry that God didnt "do something". But he told me to stay, be faithful, be obedient and to stand.

    When he did move me, I left with the blessing of my pastor and with love from those I served with.

    Thanks for seeking wise counsel.

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  5. Thanks to both Pastor Burnett and Gcmwatch. I do thank God for wise counsel.

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  6. "Don't cower down to the enemy, the life of the community may be in your stand!"

    Great words. I don't see you as an enemy but the life of the community depends on the stand of folks who are unafraid of the backlash. I disagree with your words but not to a point of hostility.


    Sexual orientation is the emotional, romantic and sexual attraction to the opposite sex, same sex or both. You ask for evidence but the truth is you ignore the evidence right in front of you. When did you choose to be attracted to women?

    Let me back up, it seems to me that you are confused between orientation and behavior. We choose our sexual behavior but not our sexual orientation which is who we are attracted to (as in what gender).


    “They are not intended to control us as individuals. One thing we know for certain is that the human race would not exist without heterosexual sexual activity.”

    Correct however, that again is sexual behavior. Plenty of homosexuals have children and continue to have children.

    “ This by nature is normal and in line with the existence of life itself. “

    In nature homosexuality exists as well, define normal.

    “Out of control "orientations" not only produce homosexuals, it also produces rapists, pedophiles, polygamists, masochists, swingers and a host of other types of sexual deviations and deviants.”

    Again behavior and not orientation, especially rape. Rape has nothing to do with sexual orientation, rape is more about power and control.

    We owe those in the gay community an apology for misusing the Word of God to beat the hell out of them. The Bible does not address homosexuality as we know it. Same sex temple prostitution, attempted same sex rape and pagan temple sexual practices is what we find in the Word of God.

    What is a homosexual lifestyle?

    Declaring homosexuality is wrong based on the view passages that we have on “homosexuality” is wrong, especially when they do not address our GLBT brothers and sisters.

    “Tying abuse, mental stress, and bullying to the sin of homosexuality may be novel and may sound like a valid reason to accept homosexuality as a practice, but in reality is one of the greatest deceptions perpetrated by the homosexual rights proponent today.”

    Look, if you don’t want to accept gay sex, then don’t participate in it. But this is more than just sex. I guess I would fall into your label of a homosexual rights proponent, but the truth is that many are dying spiritually, emotionally and physically by your words. You don’t have to accept anyone but I beg of you to listen to the Holy Spirit directing you to learn more about human sexuality and behavior before you right another piece as the mouthpiece for God.

    Sexual orientation cannot be changed and no legit medical, social or mental association or organization will agree with you. Yes a person can stop having sex but their attractions stay. Seriously, how many people would choose to be gay especially in the Black Church?

    “The word "homophobic" is a made up word that does not apply to anyone who denounces homosexuality as a valid sexual and relationship practice. We also deny pedophilia, murder, rape and incest...are we "phobic" against them? NO...we simply pronounce and stand for the TRUTH of nature and creation.”

    Try heterosexism: Heterosexism is an ideological system that denies, denigrates, and stigmatizes any non-heterosexual form of behavior, identity, relationship, or community. Heterosexism is reflected by personal assumptions that everyone in the world is, or should be, heterosexual.

    KKK Christians make the same statement as you: “NO...we simply pronounce and stand for the TRUTH of nature and creation.”

    Now, as far as Joel, he stated what he believed. Maybe since you can do better, call up Whoopi and ask to get on the show so you can do it right. Seriously.

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  7. Rev,

    The only enemy to truth is a LIE.

    You said:Sexual orientation is the emotional, romantic and sexual attraction to the opposite sex, same sex or both.

    That's not entirely correct in the frame of discussion. Although having a shade of truth, to homosexual advocates, orientation is how one was born or created. Unlike a feeling or romantic attraction (as you describe) it, according to them, is inescapable. This is why many wish to exalt this argument to the issue of a civil right such as racism. A civil right, in it's most basic sense cannot be changed.

    Now you spend much of your commentary laying down a false premise and self constructed arguments.

    You said:"You ask for evidence but the truth is you ignore the evidence right in front of you. When did you choose to be attracted to women?"

    Now, this is not an evidence of anything. In fact what you set forth is the logical fallacy of Spurious Similarity. My attraction for women has nothing to do with a homosexual's attraction for men. My attraction falls within the natural order of creation both from a biblical and physiological or biological perspective. To overlook this, as you appear to do, makes what you're trying to assert only a meaningless similarity.

    You said:"Let me back up, it"

    I think you should.

    You said:"seems to me that you are confused between orientation and behavior."

    Only according to you.

    You said:"We choose our sexual behavior but not our sexual orientation which is who we are attracted to (as in what gender)."

    FALSE. As Tyler Perry said, what we feed lives and what we starve dies...Thus the words of Paul that we should "mortify" the members of our flesh (Col. 3:5) and "reckon ourselves to be dead"(Rom. 6:11) In Christ. So in essence you see the whole argument in one dimension, in a dimension of human and biological struggle. I reveal that the dimension of struggle emanates from a place deeper than the flesh and mind.

    You noted:"Plenty of homosexuals have children and continue to have children."

    That is because they are gender confused and follow the dictates of feelings rather than a true committment in life. There is no heterosexual that is truly straight that struggle with homosexual inclinations. Why is it that homosexuals can claim that they are homosexuals and yet also struggle with cross gender attraction...This is confusion.

    You said:"In nature homosexuality exists as well, define normal."

    How does homosexuality exist within nature? Is it reproductive? Does it give rise to the promotion of the species, or is it anomaly? Somethign out of the normal? In nature we find it as anomaly, not normative.

    regarding my correlation between rape and incest you said:Again behavior and not orientation, especially rape. Rape has nothing to do with sexual orientation, rape is more about power and control."

    While the latter may be true, you introduce Reductio Ad Absurdum fallacy. There are some who feel that they have a right to such actions and behaviors and were born with those inclinations and predispositions. This is not mere "feelings" or "behavior" as you state. This is the held belief that they were created the way they are.

    See pt. 2

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  8. Pt.2

    Rev,

    Now, you seem to make an exception for homosexuality. Why? Why is the inclination to be a homosexual greater than the inclination to rape, molest, commit adultery, be polyamorous, be incestuous? Why the special pleading in favor of the homosexual and gay agenda and supposed orientation?

    You said:"We owe those in the gay community an apology for misusing the Word of God to beat the hell out of them."

    We owe noone anything but LOVE. LOVE carries responsibility. Love demands that we teach and preach what the BIBLE commands, justifies and sets forth. It also demands that we rightly dive the word of truth or set the truth of God in proper order. As your following statement shows you fail to do either.

    You said:"The Bible does not address homosexuality as we know it. Same sex temple prostitution, attempted same sex rape and pagan temple sexual practices is what we find in the Word of God."

    Not only are you simply wrong, you hold that "same sex temple prostitution" was condemned biblically while heterosexual deviance of all kinds was condemned, In fact the only thing not condemned under your false and heretical interpretation of scripture is "homosexuality"! Isn't that convenient? The homosexual claims that there is no "clear" condemnation of their lifestyle and sexual preference while their is a clear condemnation of all others...

    Thoughts and exegets like yours are not only rejected by God they are down right baseless and ungodly. They are manipulative to support your favorite sins or the sin of the day that you would like to support while condemning all others and relegating any individual who does not support the sin that you choose to support to the confines of ignorance, sin and inhumanity. This is RIDICULOUS and your commentary is exposed for what it is...

    A LIE!

    You said:"Look, if you don’t want to accept gay sex, then don’t participate in it. But this is more than just sex."

    Now not only is that silly, it's down right irrelevant. Adultery is more than just sex...There is all kinds of emotion and attachment. The paradox is that all sex is more than just sex.

    You said:"I guess I would fall into your label of a homosexual rights proponent, but the truth is that many are dying spiritually, emotionally and physically by your words."

    Yes, you are a homosexual proponent and you present a biblical morality to do so, although you haven't got ONE scripture to support you you turn the bible into an emotive on humanity to make the argument. This is yet another logical fallacy. The sin that men desire is the ONLY thing that destroys men, not anyone telling them to come out of that sin.

    I think you should remove REVEREND from your title. What you espouse is neither feared nor revered biblically.

    see. 3

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  9. Pt. 3

    Rev,

    You said:"Sexual orientation cannot be changed and no legit medical, social or mental association or organization will agree with you."

    Sexual orientation can be changed and there are millions of individuals who have experienced such and NONE of them will agree with you...

    You said:"Yes a person can stop having sex but their attractions stay."

    You're an open tomb of logical fallacies...For this assertion to be true you would have to call all the millions that say otherwise liars...this is a product of sin...it's called self-exaltation. Now, you can invalidate the experience of those who have changed...PLEASE!

    Since you recognize that the word homophobia is a made up word (similar to children who make up word on the playground) you introduce a new one. You said: Try heterosexism: Heterosexism is an ideological system that denies, denigrates, and stigmatizes any non-heterosexual form of behavior, identity, relationship, or community. Heterosexism is reflected by personal assumptions that everyone in the world is, or should be, heterosexual."

    Now heterosexism, according to you, is simply an assumption. This is another ridiculous sentiment. There is no living person on this earth that is here without a heterosexual process, even if it was done in a test tube or in vitro. A chromosomes contained within a SPERM that only a male has had to meet the chromosomes contained within an OVUM that only a female is able to produce. The sperm of an infinite number of men cannot combine to create anything but an ungodly and abominable mess. Now is that heterosexism or simply a biological fact?

    You said:"Now, as far as Joel, he stated what he believed. Maybe since you can do better, call up Whoopi and ask to get on the show so you can do it right. Seriously."

    Last I saw she wasn't taking my calls.

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  10. Short of the long there are MULTIPLE basis upon which to reject homosexuality. Joel didn't have to hail the biblical values to be successful. Let's talk about the biological and medical problems associated with homosexuality or the psychological issues associated with it. These problems aren't given to the homosexual because of the heterosexual community. They come with the territory of misusing the body and one's life.

    There is a pressure in sin. An uncomfortability of it that the bible describes. For any so called preacher to preach and not outline those problems is is not only derelict, he is ignorant of substantive truth.

    Preachers going to the place of least resistance simply because of what somebody will think....what they should say is if they continue they will die in their sins not only spiritually, but mentally and physiologically also.

    A preacher IS NOT a preacher until he stands for truth. He clings to his own comfort or well wishing recognition while ignoring the the death of others...I don't know who you follow...but you don't follow the CHRIST of the Bible, you gave his life to save...

    Spaghetti can't stand for truth!

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  11. palmer is an apostate shilling for the homosexual club.

    he specializes in finding blogs, forums, chat rooms, websites, social media, ANYthing that will allow him access to vomit out this garbage and try to tie it to the Holy Spirit.

    Romans 1:32 in full effect.

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  12. I figured as much Gcmwatch. He is one of those that try to "creep in" pick up a title and use it to spread ungodliness, lies and falsehood under the guise that it has something to do with the bible, righteousness and holiness.

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  13. Hmm, I did read your entire response and it was pretty much you saying "uhn uhn". You also backed up one of your arguments by saying, "As Tyler Perry said,".

    This part here is the one that I will tackle:

    "Sexual orientation can be changed and there are millions of individuals who have experienced such and NONE of them will agree with you..."

    I would love to see your data on this one. There is no legit medical,psychological or social organization that supports this.

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  14. GMC Watch or DL Foster has much anger towards the gay community and anybody that supports them. That is not normal or healthy.

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  15. Wow! I happen to believe what the Bible says about the SIN of homosexuality - that Jesus nailed it to the cross; just like all other sins. But even so, that was the biggest crock I've read in a long time from Rev. Palmer. The Bible does not address homosexuality as we know it? Are you serious?

    "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    "Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
    ~Romans 1:26-32

    Tell me again how the Church owes homosexuals an apology. You might as well say Jesus owes the apology! Or, is that what you really do think?

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  16. For my Brothers and Sisters in Christ here, yes...Jesus nailed even the sin of homosexuality to the Cross - for those who believe on Him. Once saved and convicted (and lead) by the Holy Spirit, the homosexual can STOP HAVING SEX. That is a choice that has nothing to do with the strawman arugement of sexual orientation. Jesus then steps in and changes them. If there is no change given time, there might be some questions as to the reality of their salvation experience.

    But I still do have a problem with preachers singling out the sin of homosexuality in non-believers. Paul reminds us in another verse that we, too, once walked in darkness. You can show a non-believer their need for the Savoir by the Ten Commandments alone without ever taking out a baseball bat. I just can't see Jesus doing what I hear preachers doing when it comes to non-believers.

    Also, did y'all notice in the first video that Joy asked Joel if he accepted homosexuals. See...it's not enough that no one can call it what it is - "sin". They want it accepted.

    Have y'all seen the "give a damn" psa running on tv? It is so wrong on so many levels, starting with the loose cursing, oblivous to anything being wrong with that.

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  17. @"Rev." Gerald M. Palmer-You are the epitome of the word FALSE TEACHER. You cater to the flesh and you try to bring as many as you can down with you. Why does Jesus say this?:

    Matthew 16:24 (King James Version)

    24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    Homosexuality is a sin and one that must be denied. One must take that part of himself/herself and crucify it and follow Christ.

    You teach (or should I say vomit) other than that and God has a special (very hot) place for you....

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  18. Laura my words were as we know it. You use Romans 1:26-32 however you may want to put this in context by starting at verse 18.

    Here is the key:
    21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Well, whatever makes you happy, but I believe in viewing the Word of God as is and in proper context. If you take verses 26-32 out of context you get the clobber verse that has been used to clobber the gay community.

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  19. BR you remind me of DL Foster. His whole gay christian movement watch is full of self pain, angst and his lashing out at those who are able to love themselves as God made them. Name calling, bullying, and gossiping is not of God. This anger that you are throwing out is not normal or healthy behavior. Jesus Christ can deliver you from that.

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  20. Rev. Palmer, adding the verses above Romans 1:26 does nothing to change the context. Unless you are saying that homosexuality no longer becomes a sin once saved, which is ridiculous.

    You said "The Bible does not address homosexuality as we know it. Same sex temple prostitution, attempted same sex rape and pagan temple sexual practices is what we find in the Word of God."

    I submit the entire Chapter of Romans 1 as proof at how deluded that statement is. Address the Word of God and show you're not a completely transparent false teacher.

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  21. Bravo Rev. Palmer!! Unequivocally, you are correct!

    Ok District Supt., what's up with your article? I don't remember such vitriol, and vehement animosity toward the GLBTcommunity and blatant ignorant, and fallacious statements of recent. Have you been fellowshipping with pastor DL lately? :-) Maybe you're mad about the down low brotha in TP's movie "For Colored Girls?" Certainly, you displayed some grouchy rhetoric is this article.

    Thanksgiving is next week --show some luv!

    I think you owe Rev. Palmer an apology; to include, state you will embrace his shared learning and true words of wisdom: "I beg of you to listen to the Holy Spirit directing you to learn more about human sexuality and behavior before you right another piece as the mouthpiece for God."

    Also, I must quickly comment on Rev. Palmer point ref. pastor DL psyche being not normal and certainly not healthy. Again, Rev. Palmer is correct!!!! Often, I reflect and speak about pastor DL: the miniscule times throughout the year I feel a bit low, immediately, pastor DL self hatred renews me to full capacity; I tell friends about his self torment; and his story empowers many gay men to love themselves unconditionally . So, pastor Dl ministry is proven very beneficial toward empowering the glbt community. Thanks DL.

    From my family to yours - Happy Thanksgiving Dist. Supt., Rev. Palmer and DL!

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  22. @Rev. Gerald M. Palmer-and you remind me of this:

    2 Peter 2:14-22 (King James Version)

    14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

    15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

    16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

    17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

    18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

    19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

    20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

    22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    "The garbage you speak is not new, but old, and out of date. You are not an originator of anything. You are just as foolish as Balaam, and the words you speak show your lack of "Real Love" for God. You don't care about people at all....

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  23. Laura if you submit to the entire text of Romans 1, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The scripture must be applied in context or we would continue to use God's Word incorrectly. If you are dooming the homosexual to hell based on Roman 1:26 then you are applying this passage of scripture out of context.

    21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    If we listen to what we are being told there is no way that we would be using this scripture against to today's homosexual unless they are practicing pagan idol worship and performing religious sexual acts. That is what the scripture is telling us. Now if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, that is your thing but your evidence aint this passage of scripture.

    The Word of God never changes but our interpretations do. There was a time when the teachings of Paul were used to condemn both black folks and women but guess what; our interpretations changed and adapted to what was right.

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  24. BR, again you sound like you are really hurting; you are truly in my prayers. You can disagree with people without being disagreeable. Have A Blessed Thanksgiving. I am not being smug, I truly mean it.

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  25. Ausfahrt thank you. I thought I was the only one who uses DL Foster as motivation. I didn't know who he was until 2007 when a friend of mine was attacked by him and his words were twisted. My friend was truly hurt by DL who claims to be to speak for The Lord.

    Then I started reading his pain and self hate through his entire blog.

    Along with being a minister I am also a Masters leveled Social Worker who has worked and studied the field of human sexuality, sexual orientation and the impact that religious based heterosexism, and sexism has on those areas. Not bragging, but as soon as I started reading how Mr. Foster attacks the gay community and their supporters I knew what was going on.

    Usually the lions that yelp the loudest are the ones with the biggest thorns. This man is truly hurting and that saddens me. He is hurting others. I have spoken to men who have trusted this man only to be hurt in the end.

    I truly believe that folks who are hurting hurt others and DL Foster and his entire Gay Christian Movement Watch does that. He inspires me to continue to attack religious based homophobia and heterosexism so that another DL Foster does not have to stay in self hate.

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  26. Rev. Palmer said "Now if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, that is your thing but your evidence aint this passage of scripture."

    Wow. Wow, wow, wow. God's Word says there will be days like this, but I never thought I would see it myself.

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  27. I haven't had time to chime in because I'm working a little too intently today, but good Rev-rund Palmer...Stop The Madness!!!

    Telling the truth in no way equates to hatred or hate speech and the only vitriol is the vitriol that you use of absolutely BUTCHERING biblical passages to support the sin that you want to promote...

    Both Old and New Testaments are CLEAR in outlining prohibitions against homosexuality, not just "homosexual prostitution" that you claim...Homosexuality is not even an institution that is legal among men (in most states) therefore even according to the law of man (yet alone God) it is a violation of law....

    The slavery issue in no way equates but since you want to go there, look at what GOd did and how he ultimately viewed slavery...He delivered Jacob from slavery, he delivered Joseph from slavery, He delivered Israel as a nation from slavery...in fact he calls and sends Moses in Ex. 3 because he had "seen the affliction" of his people and Ps. 37 says that many are the "afflictions" of the people but the Lord "delivereth" them out of them all...

    Now if it is the case that slavery is endorsed by God or that GOd is silent on the issue as most literalists and apostates such as you claim...then why does God call it an "affliction" and further why does he promise to "deliver" people from their afflictions? Further why did Jesus come to "set at liberty them that were bound"? If we understand his mission we also understand he meant both natural and spiritual liberation for mankind.

    As stated, the issue of slavery does not equate to this issue but as a matter of correctly interpreting the narrative (since you offer a bogus and erroneous one) I thought I should at least correct you because you seem to not know these things...I mean there's much more to say but I'll save that for later and even a more comprehensive post on the issue since liberals like you continue to spew that garbage.

    Now, as I said, what do you do when God said he sends a REBUKE? Do you say that he doesn't "love" or that he is filled with "self-hatred"? That's a backwards assertion and one that you can't support or justify in any manner.

    For you, as your commentary proves, morality and righteousness is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you want to believe and digest for the time in which it is appropriate...that's like a chameleon...one who changes color with the wind of times. God doesn't change neither has he changed as in his command for righteousness, purity and equity.

    GOd loves every man, including the homosexual man or woman. He loves them too much to simply allow them to burn in lust toward one another and not mention the damage that they do to one another, those around them and God himself. That's not hate, that's the love of God pleading with the homosexual to commit their ways to God so that he can give them the right nature of sexual desire and ordinate love.

    see 2

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  28. 2

    Rev-rund Palmer,

    I'm sorry, but for those like you, who use the pulpit as a cover to promote anti-Christ ramblings as you do, I have no special regard. It's one thing to be theologically wrong on an issue. That's OK we can deal with that...but you are a charlatan using the cross to promote apostasy and using the ministerial call to do such. You are like Simon Magus...you have no part in this for your heart is not right...as Paul said you're in the "bitterness of gall"!

    Ausfhart doesn't claim to be a Christian. (as far as I know) even if he did he's not claiming to be a minister, so I view him differently. He's simply advocating for what he believes as a person. But you my friend and those who do what you do, are sadly and badly deceived and cannot biblically support any of your rhetoric biblically.

    Might I suggest that you get a biblical exegesis outlying the virtues and values of the homosexual lifestyle. Then biblically set the parameters and boundaries of homosexuality...that is since you say the church and Christians are wrong on the issue...What does the bible say about it then...SPECIFICALLY???

    I'd like to hear it. Because the bible is clear on marriage, fornication and other sexual matters, but according to you, doesn't say anything that we believe it says about homosexuality...since you claim that homosexuality is biblically moral, right and not offensive to God, certainly you can st forth a clear objective scriptural homiletic on the topic...

    That's the ONLY thing I care to hear from you regarding the issue.

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  29. Brother Burnett Your Part 1:

    Telling the truth that is built on a lie which is perpetrated by one’s own personal interpretation of scripture was never a truth and that is what we have when it comes to your beliefs on homosexuality.

    You state that Both Old and New Testaments are CLEAR in outlining prohibitions against homosexuality however we must first determine what do we consider homosexuality?

    1. Sexual orientation which is the attraction to or
    2. Sexual behavior between the same sex (both male and female).
    3. Only male to male
    4. Only female to female
    5. Anal sex all
    6. Anal sex between men
    7. Pagan Temple sexual acts


    What is the Bible clear on?

    Old Testament? The Leviticus Codes in which folk like you ignore most of but hold on to the ones that you think reflect the homosexual. But the problem is in the original Hebrew, Leviticus seems to only address sex acts between men.

    New Testament?

    Now you make a good point that homosexuality is not even an institution that is legal among men. Good point, women voting was not legal as well as black folk, interracial marriage was not legal and guess what, these laws were created by folks who used their faulty translations of the Bible as an excuse for their bigotry.
    I never stated that slavery was endorsed by God or anything like that, my point was that the Word of God has been misused by men to oppress other men.

    That was my point, your whole Bible lesson on slavery was not needed by me. I agree with you on this point.

    You are right God does love all of us. Yes sir. But you wrong on the fact that the Homosexual has to change back to being straight, for God didn’t say oops when He made them.

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  30. Brother Burnett Your part 2:

    You have some nifty names for me and lofty claims but you have never proved anything especially your beliefs on homosexuality.

    You have yet to provide statistics on the millions of ex homosexuals that you say exist. But save your time because you will not find them. I can however point you to some peer reviewed research on sexual orientation and sexuality.

    You state I cannot support anything I state biblically, but the sad part about all of this is that you have not either. You can use words like exegesis and homiletic and yet you don’t apply those nice fancy words. Instead you are committing the sin of eisogesis.

    Yep you are adding to scripture. I know it is not your fault, that was how we have been taught by man but God is calling for us to abandon how we were taught by man and embrace what His Word is actually saying to us.

    So no, I will not need any theological lesson from you but you can surely use a lesson on the truth of human sexuality and sexual orientation. I can provide you with peer reviewed research and other resources.

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  31. Hey brothas! Don’t let me interrupt! It’s just so nice to have a few days off!

    Pastor Palmer, you are phenomenal! I downloaded ALL your podcast into my ipod and look forward to listening to each one. I love the song, A Secret Place(?), you played on The Church Has AIDS podcast. I will forward these podcast to a few friends too.

    Where can I find more of your stuff, etc... Do you have a book out yet? I was surprised to read that you’re a hetero with wife and children. Honestly, I don’t come across too many Black, straight, pastors who will battle pulpit bullies on these issues.
    I know you catch HELL!!!!:-)
    Therefore, I salute you totally – today and tomorrow. THANK YOU!

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  32. To ausfahrt and Mr. Palmer...now, let me get this right...because, I'm not as well educated as either one of you, so here's my common man perspective on the matter.

    The God of the universe, who created this beautiful world we live in; who created the universe and all of the stars; who created man and woman; who gave us the concept of the family; who gave us the gift of life; also, in all of his wisdom, power and glory, gave some of us same sex orientation/preference/we were born that way...etc....created some to be homosexuals, and engage in anal sex, whereby two men allow their creative forces (sperm), to mingle with their feces. Do I have that right???

    The Almighty is okay with this, right??? Sure...so, here's how I see it. Homosexuality misses the mark. It's not God's ideal (how can it be, just think two men engaging in anal sex). It is the source of all kinds of disease and death. Time to let go of this insanity, and acknowledge that it is a sin (it misses the mark).

    Jim, Vancouver

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  33. In the '70s, homosexuality was listed as a mental condition (a disease of sorts); well, that's just what it is. Wiring is off, and allowing those that have it to think they are "normal" is not only hazardous to their health (which it is...aids, suicide, stds by the bucketful), it's also hazardous to the general population's health. It's dismantling families, confusing our children, making a mockery of God ordained sex, and will destroy our armed forces and blood banks.

    The good thing is, there's a cure, and His name is Jesus. Just ask the thousands who have been healed.

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  34. Jim,

    Absolutely right. One need not invoke the bible to see how damaging and harmful homosexuality is to the individuals and society in general...The rev-rund doesn't care about any of the FACTS...he only cares about what makes the homosexual crowd feel comfortable and "accepted by the love of Christ" all the while trampling it with bogus and highly irrational and down right illiterate arguments...

    That's just the way it is. Palmer is a farce and mishandles scripture to promote homosexuality because he is a liberal inclusionist. That's plain and simple. that's not name calling, that's just describing what is obvious.

    He is what the bible calls the "ungodly" that shall not stand in the congregation of the righteous, nor in the day of judgement. the ungodly are wicked in their rhetoric as we can all observe here and consistently try to assert that the church is the one unloving...Quite the opposite is true...they are loving their sins more than God. He has displayed such and to his shame continues to do so. However this is what the world needs to see and note, that the unrighteous have NO BIBLICAL argument and hold the bible, God's word, in low esteem and try to cover that up with a title and collar calling themselves Rev-rund...

    Rev-rund...since you advocate for sexual diversity and cannot produce any biblical support for the homosexual position, please advocate for the pedophile, or polygamist or any other sexual minority now...Please advocate for the rapist and don't give me that garbage about those things being a sexual "behavior" that's a cop out!!! That's said because you know that all of it is on the same level...If you advocate for one you must advocate for the other...

    So please, while you're searching scripture to do what I asked regarding creating a biblically supportable position on homosexuality, do the same for these other diversities, where people are acting out they believe their sexual orientation to be...

    Do this for our amusement. Please!

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  35. ausfahrt,

    Believe me the people who both sung and wrote "secret place" believe just like I do. In fact to them, Sodomites like you and Sodomite advocates like Rev-rund need to get saved before you die in your sins.

    Now, these are the facts as I know them, so think on these things when you hear those smooth rifts and melodies. Remember they are singing secret place, not secret sins.

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  36. Rev-rund,

    You said:"You state that Both Old and New Testaments are CLEAR in outlining prohibitions against homosexuality however we must first determine what do we consider homosexuality?

    1. Sexual orientation which is the attraction to or
    2. Sexual behavior between the same sex (both male and female).
    3. Only male to male
    4. Only female to female
    5. Anal sex all
    6. Anal sex between men
    7. Pagan Temple sexual acts

    What is the Bible clear on?


    The bible condemns each act that you name and related acts. "Man" when read in context is inclusive of women. See the Jews looked at the behavior you endorse as a behavior among the most depraved and most debase of individuals. That's why they didn't spend a lot of time on it other than condemning it clearly. They understood homosexuals or Sodomites or "sons of belial" as they were also called, to be the worst of society or any nation. name a Jewish teacher who holds homosexuality in any esteem in their writing...name ONE. it doesn't exist.

    In addition, the bible also condemns bestiality. In fact the OT condemn that act while the NT is silent. According to your irrational rambling, we are to assume that bestiality is now permissible right? After all Jesus didn't condemn anyone for it right?

    Or was that one of those practices that it is permissible for men while not to women right...After all you think it's OK for a woman to be a lesbian while the act of "male prostitution" is condemned right? What about lesbian prostitution? Is that Ok too according to the rev-rund palmer bibliotech? It must be right, because the bible didn't say that lesbian prostitution was wrong, only male homosexual prostitution right???

    So what is this, a sort of sexual "freedom" for us poor lowly little humans, because we can't refrain ourselves from taking out our sexuality on certain people including animals??? We "need" to be able to experience these things and not feel condemned right?

    Here's the proof that I am right about your absurd reasoning from scripture:
    "But the problem is in the original Hebrew, Leviticus seems to only address sex acts between men."

    You have no clue or understanding of patriarchal language any technical knowledge of what the texts include...in your effort to justify homosexuality you throw the women to any homosexual activity that can be thought of...there's more to that...A man that thinks that women are unrestricted sexually reflects much deeper problems. This is fantastic.


    You said:Good point, women voting was not legal as well as black folk, interracial marriage was not legal and guess what, these laws were created by folks who used their faulty translations of the Bible as an excuse for their bigotry."

    As I said, not the same categorically. Voting and civil rights were based on an institution of men and mankind, not God and or his word. One can live in the world and not vote ever. Further the bible is the most liberating historical narrative from the ancient world. Women are given testimony of authority and credibility which we find in very few if any historic writings. Further Paul does not distinguish the difference between male and female when it comes to experiencing relationship with God. This is from a Pharisee who was steeped in sentiments that held the opposite.

    You said:"But you wrong on the fact that the Homosexual has to change back to being straight, for God didn't say oops when He made them."

    God also did not make them homosexual. He made them a man or a woman. People whether by conscious choice or unconsciously incline themselves to one or another. It is called inordinate affection or affection that is out of the proper and established order of God.

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  37. Pastor Harvey, I've been thinking about this all day and have something I want to throw out there and see if it sticks. Pardon me if it sounds simple and naive.

    Homosexuals are willing to twist the clear, common sense meaning of what the Bible says in order to stay in their sin. This isn't an exclusive strategy of homosexuals only - cafeteria christians abound now days. So I asked myself "why", and I decided it was so they didn't have to look at it.

    I think I'm on to something so bare with me. Let's say a man owed a lot of money on the books, and the interest kept piling up every month and he kind of knew the total but they didn't want to look at it. It was just too much. $100,000 became $200,000, then $500,000, and he never opened the books to see how big because he knew he couldn't pay any of it.

    Then a Savior steps in and pays their debt in full. Not only this debt, but every debt in the future. For the first time, the man opens the book to see his sin and what was paid. He no longer hides from it or deludes himself about what a monster his sin had become.

    Humans are funny, in that we will tell ourselves anything to get to do what we want to do, and are willing to write endless paragraphs of drivel to try to persuade others of the same. Anything at all to keep from examining or even acknowledging our sin. Unless...we understand Grace.

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  38. @ Anonamous: LMAO! Too Funny! Yeah, I'm an advanced degreed brotha. So what? I was motived to pursue higher education. As a Black, gay, brotha, I knew I needed to have an edge upon my homophobic religionist brethren. That's why I'm the HNIC --not the subordinate. Ain't conceited, just clarifying!

    Why are you so obsessed with my sexual proclivities? I love my man like you love your woman; my goal when pleasuring my man is the same as yours with the wife: total mutual climax. Do you waste seed? Or is your purpose to reproduce with every ejaculation? I sure hope not in this economy!;-)


    @ Supt.: The 2003 Lawrence v Texas US Supreme Court decision struck down the remaining sodomy laws in the US. Therefore, it's not illegal for a man and woman to have anal sex. Yes heteros have anal sex!

    More youth, especially young church girls taking promise rings and supported by Bush's faith-based funding going toward abstinence only sex education are causing more girls to having anal sex to protect themselves from pregnancy; therefore, they remain a vaginal virgin. I read that upwards of 34% of heteros have anal sex; maybe, today the number is even higher. Now, that's a hefty percentage!

    FYI: The anas has more nerve ending than the vagina? Yes! Actually, the vagina is simply a birthing canal; the clitoris is the hot button: a fleshy gland filled with more nerve ending than the penis. Most women fake orgasm because all that banging into the birthing canal ain't doing nothing. Hopefully, his big belly might hit the clit and finally give her a bit of pleasure.

    Finally, as you say, I will just die in sin. Nevertheless, I know unequivocally you're the one in error. Self actualization is wonderful.

    @ Pastor Palmer: Yeah!!! I discovered your book online: "The Church Has AIDS: Essays on Sexuality, Sexual Orientation, Taboos, and the Black Church."

    What is the best method to purchase a few copies, for christmas stocking stuffers, so the proceeds go directly to you? Also, I found your youtube clips,two more podcast (Out the Box) and the Black Preaching Network. Lucky Me!

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  39. It is ever amazing to me that those arguing in favor of homosexuality believe that the homosexual act should be somehow "favored" above all other sexuality...They themselves look at the pedophile as perverted while their same gender lust (not love, love has nothing to do with it) is in a better class of sexual activity and preferences.

    Then we have those like Ausfhart who question something like this, "Why are you worried about what goes on in someone's bedroom?" then say "Those are private issues between adults." He hasn't said the former but he has said the latter...they want all talk about sexual morality off the table as if it is not a moral issue.

    When it is a moral issue. It's a moral issue what one does to gratify themselves in general. It may make a person feel good to express themselves sexually in multiple manners, but when there is no constraint or order those same people are held in low esteem. Look at congressmen and politicians who have affairs, preachers who are pedophiles and molestors...it is a moral issue.

    In fact according to these type of advocates, one shouldn't remove a pastor for their lust upon the innocent in the congregation, be it homosexual or heterosexual lust...simply support them because of their "orientation". Remember, they have that darned attraction that God doesn't deal with and they can't change from...Remember, God certainly didn't make a mistake when he made them a pedophile...

    Advocates such as these are so low and pitiful it is a shame...They kick over buckets and knock down ceilings to justify what they favor.

    I say lead by example Palmer...take your children and give them to one of these sexually diverse pedophiles, and after they are raped, I want you to fight for the pedophile rights like you fight for the gay rights...Create a biblical motif that will defend them and call their sins clean...In fact don't do that...we can help you find some more immediate one's to deal with. Go to your local Catholic Diocese, ask them for the list of pedophile priests and call them up and tell them that they are just fine the way they are oriented....They need not change anything because "God didn't say oops when he made them"...Better yet, tell their VICTIMS that sad farce that you are trying to peddle to us...I want to see the news story on that.

    You need help? Maybe we can help find a family in your area you can go to and tell them about the virtues of sexual diversity among pedophiles, rapists and sadists who are "oriented" to be what they are...and I want to witness you explaining to them that what happened to their loved one was only a matter of "sexual diversity" and that the only reason they are mad is because of "ignorance" and old ideas...

    How about Dahmer's victims families...let's go to Wisconsin and I want you to take the ministry and talk about Dahmer's sexual diversity...after all, he was "oriented" to kill those people have sex with their dead bodies and eat them. You say he's crazy, he said that's what turned him on as far back as he can remember...That was his "orientation"

    Fight for all sexual deviance the way you fight for the homosexuality. At least then you'll make some sense (NOT!) and be consistent with your apostasy.

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  40. Ausfahrt,

    For those reading he asks"Why are you so obsessed with my sexual proclivities?"

    Didn't I tell you? This is straight out of the homosexual playbook 101. As if sexual morality doesn't matter...It should be between he and his luster what he does right? Now insert children, animals, dead bodies and the list goes on...

    IT MATTERS. It tells about who you are on a moral basis. It tells about what type of boundary you have established in life and how much control you have. how you get your kicks is not an alternate life or a subordinate life. It tells about you. Doesn't make you a non caring or unfeeling person, but it tells whether you believe in absolute truth, morality and right or whether you make things up based on your feelings...

    This sounds so foolish:"I love my man like you love your woman;"

    IMPOSSIBLE. You can't do that in any possible world. Those of us who have wives love them based on based on committment, order, sound mindedness, right order and a host of other criteria, not to mention a solid foundation biblically. Not just lust. Yours is based on lust, and rooted in selfishness. That's why it's hard to consider that you can change...you gotta get your satisfaction out of the deal...It's not a fair deal to not act on your "orientation" and take control and tell your sexuality that it will be subject to what is pleasing to God...ooh I forgot, you don't believe in God certainly not one who prohibits your lust.

    See, I see straight through the lies of homosexuality because when I was a playa, those were the lines I used to get women...I was totally STUPID... I used to say, "God IS love and he wants us to love one another...he certainly isn't against me lovin' you...so let's do this!" Forget marriage, we just focus on how we feel...better yet, let me express how I feel, "God loves us to love one another doesn't he?"

    That worked 1 out of 5 times...I had confused love with lust and used the bible to support my bogus argument...That's why I have no sympathy for what I read from you and the good rev-rund

    You are both playas...just from a different angle with a different target. You trying to purge your mind of all wrong and make yourself feel better about it...the rev-rund trying to seduce the minds of the people with a collar and an egregious and erroneous interpretation of the bible... both R sick...

    Like Jim said, you need a physician and his name is Jesus!

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  41. Ausfahrt,

    BTW: We don't need lessons on what is pleasurable among heteroxesuals from you. You don't understand what heterosexual couples find pleasurable, beginning with honoring GOd and his word. The natural, physical functions of the body, mean nothing out of God's order and are not pleasureable to us without that connection...manipulation of any body part is unfulfilling without the moral sense of GOd's order, so please refrain from trying to "teach" us, because I don't think you have the proper credentials to conncet and or speak our language.

    We have an objective source of morality to base our teachings, beliefs and what we aspire to be upon, not just a manipulation fo flesh.

    Just thought you should know.

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  42. @ Dist. Supt.: Clearly, Pastor Palmer has ruffled your feathers; you're spewing random vile rhetoric. Palmer will easily find supports and followers because he is a true man of Godliness.

    Supt., you're not the only former Playa of females. For 22yrs I was conditioned by the social police to perfect the heterosexual orientation. And I must say, I mastered the neuro-linguistic programming techniques.

    I LOVE you District Supt. Harvey Burnett! Will you return the gesture?

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  43. ausfahrt,

    Of course I love you my friend...that's why I tell you the truth and live truthfully before the world and you. I need not deceive you by telling you that the bible endorses the life that you live...that my friend, would be hatred and manipulation. Sorry, I can't do that even to make you feel better...no one made me feel better about my sin and when I found that it was incompatible to righteousness and truth, I had a decision to make...I made mine.

    I hope you have enough courage to make a right decision and live as a result. Have a Happy Thanksgiving my friend!

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  44. Ausfarht thank you. The best way to order the book is via amazon.com and the proceeds go to addressing and ending religious based heterosexism and homophobia. You are right, I am married and hetero and yes I take much heat. But after four years I have learned to pray for those who are turn up the heat because many of them are dealing with their own pain.

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  45. It seems to me that DL Foster has called in the troops.

    Anyway Brother Burnett you seem to be very edgy as you throw my children into this with the pedophile comment. In your mind that makes perfect sense, in your mind saying God made man and woman and not the homosexual makes sense to you as well. Not even considering that GLBT folk are men and women.

    No need to continue to argue with you we are on two different levels and your comments grow more abrasive. I do thank you for the conversation.

    Peace and Blessings,

    Pastor Gerald M. Palmer, MSW
    Word For The Soul Ministries
    Kansas City, Missouri

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  46. Thanks Rev-rund and abrasive is as much as your low view of what we value as true followers of Christ...With what you are defending and the rationalizations that you are using, I don't see why you would be offended. Obviously you know those things are wrong, I wouldn't allow you to do any of those things as I KNOW you wouldn't. Because I believe that you know there is no justification for the pedophile or other sexually immoral person, BUT you have a value for the homosexual lifestyle because for some reason you don't hold it to be immoral and you view it as more normative than the other sexual diversities I mention.

    You have provided no basis for your assertion and have refused to address the issue of other sexual minorities. Why single out homosexuals when these others are convinced that they are also oriented like they are?

    You know the answer...the answer is that orientation means NOTHING in the scheme of a right and justifiable moral choice. "Orientation" is not an excuse for immoral behavior as you make it out to be by endorsing the homo-agenda. You have no basis for your argument.

    What you have is a bias against any scriptural interpretation or saying that doesn't affirm the SIN you wish to prove or uphold. You are arbitrary in choosing a sin that you like for some reason...I admit I am more direct with you than many because you claim to be a minister, adorned in what should be light, but you are shod with evil and unrighteousness. You promote and are filled with ungodliness.

    What is it? Have you found a new money machine in the GLBT community? I think so...The position you hold against the clear teachings of the bible benefit you in some way...and I know what the bible says is true...the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil. You my friend USE the collar as doorway to seduce and dupe into your evil devices and I believe simply target market to increase profits. you certainly have no biblical position and your logic does not hold up.

    As I stated you are a true Simon Magus! Remember, after they built the statue to him, and he seemingly seduced all of Samaria, Simon has his day!

    I'm praying for you my brother and you don't know how much and or why...I encourage all others to do the same for you.

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  47. Pastor Burnett I value people not the labels. One's sexuality is just that; their sexuality, their sexual orientation. You see gay folks as deviants while I see them as plain ole folk who love differently than I do. When GOD called me into this ministry I did not want it.

    I didn't think I was strong enough to handle the name calling, the rebuking, or the anger that would be hurled my way. But then I started to thinking about what Jesus Christ went through for my sins and this stuff that I go through doesn't even come close.

    Ausfarht mentioned about the love he had for his partner and you chalked it off as lust. Well my wife and I have friends who are same gender loving and have been together for 25 years. That aint lust, lol. Lust for one person only last so long, probably up until they pass gas for the first time around you.

    One last thing, you say my motivation is money. There is more money in the anti-gay ministry circles than there is in the affirming and accepting crowd. The black gay community has been so beat up by the church that many would rather stay in those churches or leave organized religion altogether.

    If I wanted to make money the last thing I would be is a minister and social worker who is preaching God's message of radical inclusion.

    Did you find the source for your millions of ex-gay claim?

    Now another last thing, I don't by your excuse for your poor behavior towards me.

    Many times when our feathers are easily ruffled by others, we are already flying around with wounded wings. Think about that and ask God to show you the source of your anger.

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  48. Rev-rund,

    I have an utter disdain for individuals who use the cloth to promote self-made agenda. I have an utter disdain for individuals who make the cross of Christ of non-effect and who blatantly twist the bible to endorse sins that they favor...Now I may have judged you wrongly, but the fact is that God did not give me a pass on my sin, and I question how a true man of God could endorse SIN and simultaneously claim that he is of and from God. The question is, why are you endorsing giving homosexuals a pass on their sin when the scripture is clear regarding homosexuality, and unrepentant sin?

    Why single out the homosexual, as I have consistently stated, to endorse their "sexual orientation" and not endorse the "sexual orientation" of other sexual deviants and or diversities?

    If you have any conviction you are aware that this is the question that you must address in a clear logical and biblically coherent manner. You have not attempted to reconcile this in any manner, nor address the issue in general. If you are going to do what you do, you cannot simply pick out homosexuality as an exempt behavior. You must also endorse the utter garbage of human sexual behavior right along with it.

    Homosexuals have authentic love. I am not denying that. However, it is inspired by lust and affection that is out of order or what the bible calls inordinate. The basis for heterosexual love in no way compares to the homosexual union. From a biblical and moral standpoint, God endorses what we do,(when done right) whereas homosexuality is rejected by God under all circumstances.

    There are healthy boundaries placed around heterosexuality and male-female unions. There is only a prohibition biblically regarding homosexual unions and they are considered to be born of and inspired by the flesh not of God.

    From an emotional and psychological standpoint, heterosexuals do not bear shame (unless they also sin or act in an unbecoming manner...which many do) Physiologically, heterosexual unions work by design. What you call heterosexism is called God's created order biblically.

    I may have taken some drastic measures to make my point, and for that I'm sorry, but you have in no way reconciled what I am asking.

    So the question is really upon what is sexual morality based? Is it based on your opinion, thoughts and feelings? If so you are saying that sexual morality is relative and we come full circle to the argument I pose..."why single out homosexuality?"...

    If sexual morality is objective in nature, and as I point out, the bible clearly condemns it as an abomination, sin and a work of iniquity, then who are you that we should follow your words?

    There is no in-between. Either God is God and HIS word is true, or we all should just hang it up and do whatever we "feel oriented" to do.

    So rev-rund, you have to deal with the issues and that's what I am forcing you to do as long as you want to contribute here. Write what you which to write, but in this you know you have no foundation for what you assert.

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  49. BTW: Read and learn at Gcmwatch and you'll hear plenty of individuals who have been DELIVERD from the SIN of homosexuality.

    All you have done so far is impose your bias on him calling him hateful as you have done with me. It seems that when you have no basis for an argument, everyone is a "hater" or unloving. That's disingenuous and we all see straight through it for what it is.

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  50. The scripture is not clear on homosexuality and if it was we would not be having this discussion. It is not clear and you have not tried to make it clear.

    For instance let us look at:
    The scriptures that we use to condemn the homosexual are such:

    Leviticus 18:22

    “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

    Does this apply to all homosexuals both male and female?

    Does this apply to those that are engaging in anal sex?

    Does this apply to male homosexuals who do not engage in sexual activity?

    Does this apply to homosexual men who are in loving relationships?

    Do we follow this scripture in context?
    If we do follow it in context what is it saying to us?
    In verse 21, we see that the writer forbids ritual child sacrifice to Molech.
    Researching Molech, we would find that his worshipers engaged in same sex sexual rituals. Is that what our same gender loving brothers and sisters practice?

    Come on, we have to ask these questions.

    You ask me why don’t I accept all of the messed up sexual practices,etc. and my question to you, is why don’t you accept all the Biblical practices found in the Bible. Don’t say you do, because if you did, you would be physically stoning the homosexual along with the adulterer. You would also follow the entire Levitical Code. You don’t because they are not culturally and morally applicable today.
    If I have to endorse the rights for grown women to have sex with children than you have to endorse and operate under the social norms of 50 AD. It works both ways.

    “Homosexuals have authentic love. I am not denying that. However, it is inspired by lust and affection that is out of order or what the bible calls inordinate.”

    Show me where.

    We do not find much about love and marriage in the Bible. Marriage was not about love, it was about property. Women had no rights and could not really choose who they married. Who they were to married was chosen by their fathers. Women and children were property.

    This is seen all throughout the Bible and we can find this if we truly study the culture of the day.
    Again you are operating under eisogesis.

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  51. You stated,

    “The basis for heterosexual love in no way compares to the homosexual union. From a biblical and moral standpoint, God endorses what we do,(when done right) whereas homosexuality is rejected by God under all circumstances.”

    Again, you can not back up that statement biblically. Again show me love and marriage in the bible, show me the concept of marriage as we know it today.

    “There are healthy boundaries placed around heterosexuality and male-female unions. There is only a prohibition biblically regarding homosexual unions and they are considered to be born of and inspired by the flesh not of God.”

    Again show me where, show me those healthy boundaries placed around male and female unions. Did you buy your wife from your father in-law? If you didn’t than you are not living biblically. How many wives do you have? God did not frown on men having multiple wives or did he? You can not find anything biblically to support your healthy boundaries statement. Women of today would not have found a traditional biblical marriage healthy. Come on Pastor.

    “From an emotional and psychological standpoint, heterosexuals do not bear shame (unless they also sin or act in an unbecoming manner...which many do) Physiologically, heterosexual unions work by design. What you call heterosexism is called God's created order biblically.”

    We bear shame because we have been taught by man to live in shame. You can not back up your statement.

    This right here is my educational and professional background: looking at the shame, blame and pain mentality of the black church. Somebody say AMEN. Many of our brothers and sisters who are gay are taught by folks like you to be shameful of how God made them, it was you not God.

    “I may have taken some drastic measures to make my point, and for that I'm sorry, but you have in no way reconciled what I am asking.”

    I have, you are neither reading or listening for whatever internal reason. Maybe because you have built your spirituality on the religion and your religion on your interpretation of the Bible. If by chance your interpretation is incorrect, the whole stack of cards will tumble. Let them tumble and let God rebuild them.

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  52. “So the question is really upon what is sexual morality based? Is it based on your opinion, thoughts and feelings? If so you are saying that sexual morality is relative and we come full circle to the argument I pose..."why single out homosexuality?”

    You answered your own question. Your entire premise is based on your opinions, thoughts and feelings. Your interpretation of scripture is based on your opinions, thoughts and feelings. How many blogs have you written on homosexuality? Why is DL Foster watching the homosexual? Why only the homosexual? Why is he singling out homosexuality? I answered your question with a question.

    “If sexual morality is objective in nature, and as I point out, the bible clearly condemns it as an abomination, sin and a work of iniquity”

    The questions are which ones and why? What are abominations?

    “There is no in-between. Either God is God and HIS word is true, or we all should just hang it up and do whatever we "feel oriented" to do.”

    We don’t sir. My whole argument again, the scriptures that we use to clobber the homosexual are used out of context. This is noway giving anyone a free get out of sin card. You think to big of me. We must use the Words of God in proper context or we will continue to destroy lives.

    “So rev-rund, you have to deal with the issues and that's what I am forcing you to do as long as you want to contribute here. Write what you which to write, but in this you know you have no foundation for what you assert”

    You are actually cowering, this is what folks like you do when they are forced to deal with the truth. You have done nothing but throw up smoke screens and insults. You have been very defensive and have done nothing but grandstand. Your behavior is not about God, it has been about you and your ego. What does the Word say about that?

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  53. Let us deal with this, you stated:

    "BTW: Read and learn at Gcmwatch and you'll hear plenty of individuals who have been DELIVERD from the SIN of homosexuality".

    You actually told me that millions have delivered from homosexuality. I still want to see your sources for this, peer reviewed research please. Now if I want to gossip and defame folks, yes GCM Watch would be the place.

    I am very educated on this issue and I am aware of both sides of the issue. One is based on facts and the other one of propaganda. GCM Watch would be the last one. That wouldn't be just me, even folks in the anti-gay crowd would agree.

    "All you have done so far is impose your bias on him calling him hateful as you have done with me."

    We all are biased but DL started the love taps.

    "It seems that when you have no basis for an argument, everyone is a "hater" or unloving. That's disingenuous and we all see straight through it for what it is."

    What?? I have done nothing but lined out my point. You started the disrespect as well as others. I have been nothing but respectful. I have done this before and I know the game. You are throwing smoke screens again.

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  54. Lets get to science for a second...there isn't a scintilla of scientific evidence to prove any human is "born a homosexual." It's all been debunked. The propaganda war regarding sexual deviants and same sex marriage should be focused on one thing: science. Not tolerance. Not acceptance. Not politically correctness. Science.

    This is the one thing advocates and participants of deviant sexual behavior refuse to discuss - always. If you're born Caucasian, you can't change your skin colour to black at will and visa versa. The same as if you're born Asian. You can't simply decide one day to change your race to another race. You are the way God made you.

    Thousands of sodomites and lesbians have left their destructive, preferred life styles. As SB stated, check out DL Foster's web site, and see for yourselves.

    Jim

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  55. Rev-rund,

    You have done nothing but made a travesty of biblical interpretation. There is no distinguishing the difference between a loving same gender relationship and a non loving one because BOTH under any guise are evil and ungodly.

    You have made NO scriptural point, reference and do not have support for your argument. The bible lays out the command for the the male and the female relationship that the man would take care of and provide for the woman and the family in general.

    What you do is first try to establish that the bible supports the gay life and sexual choice...IT DOESN'T.

    Then you offer is another logical fallacy called an argument from silence...The bible IS NOT silent on the issue. No detail is needed about something that is SIN as defined in the bible.

    In fact what you do is suggest and even say that the homosexual relationship is favored. Something that GOd in his infinite wisdom does not address...How FOOLISH does that sound??? This is the ultimate of silliness and frivolity.

    God, who has foresight and foreknowledge, saw the SINS of man...ALL SINS including that of homosexuality and condemned the relationships on whatever level they may be. This is why you find NO Jewish teacher or Rabbi that endorses homosexuality to any degree. You make a distinction...where they loving relationships and all that garbage...that's garbage! There is no difference and it is sin.

    You are yet STUCK, with all that I propose. If there is no objective sexual morality and all sexual morality is relative then YOU MUST undertake a fight for all the sexually diverse dregs of society right along with the homosexual crowd.

    If there is objective sexual morality as defined by God CLEARLY as stated and easily supported, then you are stuck with HIS prescription for sexual morality. That's the biblical basis.

    The natural basis is still this "mr. educated" that homosexuality is and has proven over and over in virtually every study, CDC or otherwise, to be harmful to the health and well being of the physical body and human psychology.

    So you have not and don't even come close to doing what you think you are doing, and that's garnering any type of biblical support for your argument. You're as far from making that connection as Los Angeles is from New York.

    Then you say:"My whole argument again, the scriptures that we use to clobber the homosexual are used out of context...We must use the Words of God in proper context or we will continue to destroy lives."

    At least you make that recognition because you use the word of God and take it COMPLETELY out of context...According to you, God endorses "loving" homosexual relationships...Does he endorse "loving" heterosexual ones outside of marriage?

    Your arguments are not only foolish, they are down right silly. So unless you have a specific scriptural endorsement that you don't have to twist into and argument from silence...I mean something that endorses homosexual unions and or behavior in the least bit...you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to say.

    I understand that you want to bring help and healing to the homosexual crowd. That is commendable. However to say that they are not in sin violates everything that the bible sets forth and further encourages them to damage themselves. Therefore you are full of zeal, without knowledge and you also oppose the Kingdom of Christ in the process...

    Sorry bru, but you are wrong, off base and your ministry is not Christ centered, nor in the will of God.

    I know that may be tough but you are in error, I can't tell you more or even more concisely. I cannot oppose Christ, if I don't point out the heresy, I may as well be guilty right along with you...I'll have none of that my friend.

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  56. The best that homosexual advocates say is that homosexuality is related to a birth defect or changes to the fetus in vitro...Dr. Brenda Wade Pronounced this little jewel on the Jane Valez show some time back, not knowing how silly they sound and how much they damage their cause.

    Now, Rev-rund shows his complete apostasy by asserting that there is no evidence in the gene-pool of heterosexual makeup of an individual. Besides the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about, If he believes that God created male and female and gave THEM authority and a command to replenish the earth, the fact is undeniable from a spiritual standpoint that men and women were created heterosexual beings. Any deviation from that is a result of SIN not creation.

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  57. Burnett, so basically you answer my comments with a loud "uhn uhn because I said so"?

    That only works in your church and your home but those who know, know that you can't back up anything you are stating nor your points.

    You claim that homosexuality is unhealthy because of CDC reports and etc. But just like you do with the Bible, you ignore context. Information without context is propaganda.

    A Klan member can make the claim that Black folks are unhealthy and criminal people by jumping to any statistic. Anybody can play that game. Atheists can make a claim about Christians, Christians can make a claim about Muslims; all based on statistics and loose information.

    And yeah I am educated and thankful to God that I am. I can shut down and answer any of your points from any angle.

    Again you ask for proof that God is against same gender loving unions but I want you to show where God doesn't. You can't and I can't because the Bible is silent on homosexual as we know it.

    But it doesn't matter to you what is shown because your fingers are in your ears and you are yelling, "nana nana nana nana".

    Again, thank you for the conversation.

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  58. Rev-rund,

    You offer no questions that even have a logical basis. You are an apostate in your scriptural interpretation. You distinguish a difference between degrees of homosexual unions in order to say that the "really loving one's" and "really sincere one's" are endorsed or permitted by God...

    That's APOSTASY, a blatant LIE and if it weren't so serious, a total joke...NO homosexual relationship is endorsed biblically whether loving or not.

    I see through you "educated man's" garbage and call it what it is...scriptural APOSTASY...

    As Simon and Cerenthus, you struggle to present a new Christ. A Christ that endorses the sin that you wish to proclaim clean to whatever degree you wish to make that proclamation. It is rejected of God and as i said, you'll have your day to answer for it...that is, IF you believe in biblical judgement.

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  59. Clearly, this is a culture war that must be won by Bible believing Christians. Not standing up and taking an offensive approach, will result in the definitive decline of our civilization, the imprisonment of Christian leaders, and the revision of the Bible, to accomodate sodomites and lesbians.

    It is clear to me the homosexual agenda is the choice weapon against Bible believing Christians here in the west, perpetrated in part by witless dupes like the "Rev-Rund" and his co-hort (aushfahrt), other more prominent moral relativists in academia, the church (Olsteen, Warren, etc..etc..)and every other "life coach" who call themselves: Bishop, Pastor, Rev. on Sundays, or when it suits their wants; the perverted "arts", money masters (Soros and his global gang of co-conspirators), various politicians on every side of the spectrum, and their respective Master.

    If this movement is not soundly defeated, it will turn western civlization on its head, and will end in the Bible being labeled as hate literature, thus being revised to accomodate for sodomy and alike. They control the major media, they have our kids (teaching this abomination in public schools, adoptions), now they want the Church too....

    Someone a few years back said that Satan would use the acceptance of homosexuality as one of the defining "marks" of the antichrist. This statement cannot me ignored; this movement is militant and global in nature, and seeks to undermine God's order. Quite simply, it is an all out attack on God and His Word.

    God's judgement is at hand, this is clear. Supt. Burnett you are a gracious, loving man of God, but I beseech you to stop educating these fools: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." - the end.

    Jim

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  60. Jim,

    You said:"God's judgement is at hand, this is clear. Supt. Burnett you are a gracious, loving man of God, but I beseech you to stop educating these fools: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." - the end.",

    People want to believe what they want to believe in spite of the facts because it serves them in some way. This was most evident in this conversation. There is always a deflection...truth told, then deflect away from it and claim that all who stand against this are unloving. Those sentiments may work on the Joy Behar show but they are fit for the round or rectangular file over here. They do not make sense in any manner.

    The homosexual advocate is hard pressed to tell any of us why their sexual preference should be favored. It really makes no sense and even beyond the bible, there is not one that communicate their position without going into moral relativism.

    Anyway, I may take your advice, although I love free speech I can't take ignorance, blatant lies and scripture twisting.

    Pray 4 me my brutha!!!

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  61. M. Palmer said: "You can disagree with people without being disagreeable."

    I guess you consider Jesus to be diagreeable as He called the religious leaders of his day exactly what they were HYPOCRITES! See Matthew 23.

    Like Pastor said you are the worst kind of person. You spew you religious snot out and call it "New Age thinking" but it actuality you have no clue to you are the most deceived of all. Even unbelievers are in a better position than you. But I believe in doing thing exactly according to the word of God.

    Titus 3:9-11 (King James Version)

    9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

    10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

    11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

    You are a heretic who is out to destroy God's creation. The sad thing is you will be able to swindle some over to your side like "ausfahrt" but you won't be open to take any true follower of Christ to hell with you. Funny thing is that you can only argue certain scriptures like romans and the old testament one regarding homosexuality, but the one that I gave that accurately described who you really are you can only come back with "oh br you are in pain". The only pain I feel is the sadness in my heart over those who will be lost because of men like you. I have admonished you twice, and you have been rejected. Conversation over

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  62. Greetings Pastor, its been awhile allow me to say, there are many scripture verses that speak about Satan clouding the mind and blinding the heart. And there are also verses that speak about the darkness of the human heart, which Satan simply intensifies that which is already there. Thus we also know that the Lord God will lead one over into a reprobrate mind and will harden the heart as he did w/Pharoah, hardening that which is already hard, reprobrating a mind that has willing and wantingly submitted to a lie.

    I will not call out these verses of scripture because we know there already spoken about in the Holy Word. Paul and Jude speak about those who come from among us twisting the word and ultimately separating themselves from us, quoting John, because they were never one of us. Many say Christ never spoke about homosexuality, my answer to that is that he didn't have to, because it was already written, and by the way he wrote it.

    When rebuking the church of Laocedia, Christ said in laymans terms, you think you have it all together, but your blind and naked, put on eyesalve that you may see. So I say to the one who holds the sacred position of an undershepherd, cease believing the lie, put on eyeslave or Christ will come quickly.

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  63. BR I didn't answer your verse or description of me because it was your perception of me. I am not going to argue that nor do I have to defend myself. You have every right to feel the way you feel no matter how irrational those feelings may be.

    Be blessed sir.

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  64. Jim you to remind me of DL Foster and his Gay Movement Watch. Your behavior, your comments are very irrational, unhealthy and telling. God can deliver you from the self hate that you exhibit. You have to let him do that. Not being mean or smug. I can see it. I can see your pain and it saddens me. If you want to talk about it please send me an email.

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  65. Jim,

    Rev-rund saud:"Jim you to remind me of DL Foster and his Gay Movement Watch."

    In spite of the deflection following this, I think you've just received a compliment my friend.

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  66. An honour indeed! I pray that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, will use me to further His kingdom, as He has DL Foster.

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  67. To Rev. Palmer,
    If you have knowledge, a vial has poison in it, would it be an act of love to give a warning? Since we know the Bible says; The wages of sin is death but the gift of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23). Is your position homosexuality is not a sin? Matthew 7:13-14 says Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    I believe this refers to how closely we adhere to the Word of God. Since in Psalms 138:2 we find GOD magnifies his Word above his name shouldn't we also enter into the strait gate of interpreting the Word? Also Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, ...go and sin no more (John 8:11. The Word of God defines sin. We each must decide if we will live for GOD or not.
    Finally, the only thing that matters is the Word of God. To add to it or take away has consequences. We get to make or choices, we don't get to choose our consequences.

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  68. COGIC Justice: You guys are so dramatic.

    The problem with debating scripture is that each person's interpretation is subjective. However we do have tools to get to context of scripture which many here ignore.

    No need to defend myself, God knows the truth and I have confidence that Heaven will be full of those that were declared less than and full of poison. Reminds me of someone.

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  69. I agree with you, we are dramatic. Similar to the person who drove out the money changers. Or the one who said choose ye this day, whom you will serve...
    Perhaps like the one who called some a generation of vipers. You are correct, there are ways to get to the (proper) context of scripture. You interpret the scripture with the scripture. You use the original language to understand what was said in the correct context. Again I say, we get to choose to do or believe anything we want to, we don't get to choose our consequences. Praise GOD we can all grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. We should all study to rightly divide the Word of truth.

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  70. Supt., you and DL are most likely happily married. Yeah? My partner and I want the option to marry in our state. Would you support our federal civil right to experiencing the more than 1,400 marital bliss legal rights? I bet you don’t think twice about your federal benefit to joint parenting, numerous joint insurance policies, annuities, investments, bereavement leave, etc… All of which requires much legal planning for me.

    We know from the late 1800 till 1968 (Fair Housing Act) Jim Crow laws were legally mandated. And the dismantling of this injustice was totally done by acts of congress – not the vote of the American masses. It was a long fight for federal mandated civil rights. Correct? But my ability to marry my partner ( a civil right) is being forced to the public ballet box for you to apply your biases upon my ability to have the same legal civil rights that you and your wife/partner possess. Why? Isn't this separate but equal, too?

    My partner and I are upstanding, tax paying, law abiding citizens. Why deny us full civil rights? We give more than 10% to charity, we volunteer, tutor, mentor, and heavily involved in our community and state affairs. Why deny me the same federal rights that most heteros haphazardly take for granted, i.e., you marry one day and divorce the next day. In addition, with soaring divorce rate in the Black comm., -- marriage is not looked upon very favorable. Also, 70% of black households are single parent. Therefore, maybe my marriage could possibly demonstrate to my hetero brotha and sista how it should be done. Maybe?

    Ok, gotta go, I promised to prepare the sweet potatoes. I use a brown rice syrup (less sugar) and cinnamon instead of the traditional brown or white sugar. My turkey day preference: turkey, dressing and cranberry sauce. All the extra, ham, mash potatoes etc.. is only to satisfy the guest. But my partner is a southern soul-food, soul brotha. And can throw down!

    We maybe opposites on food, yet we’re just about sinc when it comes to today’s football games. Our picks are New England pulverizing Detroit; New York smashing Cincinnati and finally, I’m with DALLAS and he’s with New Orleans. I bet him $5 the Cowboys stomp his “SAINTS” ( no pun intended)☺

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  71. Ausfahrt,

    First, HAPPY THANKSGIVING my friend and I do mean that...Let me go on to what you asked and said:

    You asked:"Supt., you and DL are most likely happily married. Yeah? My partner and I want the option to marry in our state. Would you support our federal civil right to experiencing the more than 1,400 marital bliss legal rights?"

    No I wouldn't because I don't believe that homosexual marriage is a civil right. Similarly I don't believe that polygamy or bigamy is a civil right. These relationships may show love and affection etc, but they are harmful to what "marriage" means as an institution sanctioned both secularly and most importantly for me, spiritually.

    Now, thanks for taking the time to listen because let me outline a few things that I will fight for you and with you for any day of the week...

    1-Housing without being discriminated against
    2- Employment without discrimination in the ability to move upward in the company.
    3-Fair and adequate education
    4- Personal safety and physical well being
    5-Access to adequate health care
    6- Effective legislation against hate crimes.
    7- Financial discrimination based on homosexuality etc.

    These are just a few areas in which I will fight for your right to exist any day.

    As long as yuou understand that preaching against same gender relationships, to whatever extent, and doing that responsibility as to not to incite hatred, is my right and position of not only free speech but God call.

    See, this is where it gets confusing. The gay advocate such as Palmer and you, decide that teaching against being gay is equal to hate and that's a false imposition upon individuals such as myself. We all know there are some that hate anyway and some of them have no religious basis for their belief...but gay advocates paint with a broad brush in one hand and a statement of tolerance in the other and the position is nothing less than confusing.

    In short, everyone that doesn not agree with your position is not against you as a person and I don't think the homosexual neither wants to hear that, nor does he think that makes sense...all I can do is keep trying to bring that understanding to light.

    You have consistently said right along with rev-rund that we "hate"..."they hate" because we have a basis for our disagreement and non endorsement of your lifestyle...I don't want to come in your house and drag you away from your lover...I would stand against that. but I reserve the right to speak clearly and openly and set forth the reasons why I believe as I do.

    I will not simply create a theology to suit like rev-rund has done. That is disingenuous to you and is really a play on your emotion. To me, that's pimpery, because the bible is clear. As i state i offer more basis than simply a biblical one, so we can talk about why I am against homosexual marriage on more than one level.

    So please know, I'm not against you, I'm simply opposed to your choice and consider that choice (for a lack of a better word) a sin. I have done SIN that felt right to me also. It should be no surprise that sine can feel like it's OK. So, I hope that helps you and other homosexuals who read this, my argument a little better.

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  72. Ausfhrt,

    So far as business is concerned...let's look at insurance. From an actuarial standpoint, there is no relationship or clear underwriting risk associated with homosexual unions. In other words, to insure a risk, something must be predictable. Those are the only things that can be covered under a policy.

    For homosexuals, insuring individuals as a husband and wife is uncharted territory because it has not been legal and companies have no basis for risk. What this means is that your risk is then shared and spread to other individuals who have a predictable outcome. Therefore heterosexual persons such as myself actually bear your costs and any adverse circumstances associated with insuring you.

    There is no homosexual advocate that even stops once to say ...THANKS...Why, because you feel that you should have coverage and (I agree) but you don't care at what cost or consideration.

    That's with any type of insurance you can buy, because the risks associated with homosexual marriage have not been fully assessed and will not be for a number of years.

    Just as a lesson...do you not know that when the Twin Towers were attacked, the insurance companies first thought to decline payment? 2 reasons...1- The war exclusion. When Bush and Congress declared it to be an act of war that "exclusion" kicked in. They got past that as a matter of national pride and the companies didn't want to face that stigma.

    The real problem was #2. 2- Even though the risk of an airplane flying into a building was taken into account, the risk of someone hijacking the plane and INTENTIONALLY flying the plane into a building was NOT a predictable risk. Noone had done this with intention outside of war previously.

    As I said this is an unpredictable risk. What may seem like something that should be a slam and grab deal for you is something that this system has never seen before in itself.

    Should we assist you? From a moral standpoint, yes to a certain extent. Is it simple? No, by no means.

    You said:"My partner and I are upstanding, tax paying, law abiding citizens. Why deny us full civil rights?

    I believe that FULLY. My position and the position of millions of others has nothing to do with any of that. I applaud both of you for contributing to society and doing the right thing when and where you can. Only that we have a varying moral opinion on a fundamental issue.

    You said:"Ok, gotta go, I promised to prepare the sweet potatoes. I use a brown rice syrup (less sugar) and cinnamon instead of the traditional brown or white sugar. My turkey day preference: turkey, dressing and cranberry sauce. All the extra, ham, mash potatoes etc.. is only to satisfy the guest. But my partner is a southern soul-food, soul brotha. And can throw down!"

    Since we have similar proclivities when it come to food-LOL- Maybe next year you'll invite my wife and myself to share a holiday meal with you and your family.

    I can talk about more than just this and you already know clearly where I and we stand. So what they say, "Good food, good meat, good God let's eat!"-LOL

    You said:"Our picks are New England pulverizing Detroit;"

    Wait a minute...Detroit is going to have a break out game. U betta be glad my bettin' days r in my past-LOL!!!

    You said:"New York smashing Cincinnati

    I ain't mad atchya there...That team has self-destructed one too many times for me.

    You said:" and finally, I'm with DALLAS and he's with New Orleans. I bet him $5 the Cowboys stomp his SAINTS( no pun intended)...

    Bru...you might need a loan after that game is over...give that man his $5 and call it a day-LOL!!!!

    Later, I gotta finish my food too. Blessed!

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  73. The evening ain't over but Ausfhrt, you may be like Jimmy The Greek with these football predictions...We'll see...so far I'm 0-1 and looks like I'll be 0-2 in about 4:25...WOW!

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  74. I updated the videos again and they are active. This article is being viewed highly because Osteen has recently been asked and accepted an engagement at the COGIC Holy Convocation.

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