Sunday, December 21, 2008

Do You Hear What I Hear?

I would have hoped that Christmas 2008 could have seen better social news other than the expected mass layoffs at major corporations, financial bailouts for the automotive industry, massive business bankruptcies, and an economy that has lost over 2 Million jobs in the last 12 months. I would have hoped that even thieves like Madoff actually who "made off" with billions of dollars invested in fictitious schemes and scams and Governors of States like mine would have been stories confined to the pages of mystery and fantasy novels. Unfortunately, we've all witnessed that the truth is stranger than fiction.

Then, There Are Religious Leaders.

Now it’s one thing to make a mistake in your message. I’ve done that before. Called a wrong date or a wrong scripture or even reversed a sequence. Those things can be corrected as any minister reading this can relate. However, one cannot correct a fundamentally flawed paradigm unless one is willing to change that paradigm. Most paradigm’s (for this writing-fundamental understanding of scripture) have develop over time. If your paradigm is flawed and the flaws are not corrected, or recast in the correct mode, then it is possible to build and even perfect a wrong understanding of scripture and make highly attractive displays out of foundation-less buildings of paper and glass.

Then there’s the area of psychology. Because no one sets out in life to have a flawed paradigm or set of beliefs. The next step is often to make your belief system seem "normal" or acceptable within the "system" or realm operation. One way to do this is to amass individuals who are in agreement with your paradigm. Another way is to shade your beliefs until it is warranted that they be exposed, and finally interconnect your beliefs with so many other things until it becomes cumbersome if not impossible for anyone to root up everything all at once.


Secular companies implore marketing strategies that have used this method of operation for years. In the banking industry for instance, it is called "relationship banking". You start with a free checking account or savings account then they cross-sell and offer you as many products as you can stand over a period of time. Ultimately if a customer decides to leave the bank, they will think twice before moving all of their deposits because not only will they have multiple accounts, but now you have services such as loans and credit cards and they are often paid by auto-draft from one of those "free" accounts. If you close your accounts you’ll have to worry about setting up a new payment methods etc which will take more of your time and cause you an inconvenience…ie: The bank’s aim is to get you in so deep until it becomes cumbersome for you to leave and to your advantage to not think critically or "sweat" the small stuff.


These same techniques are perfected in the streets. Drug dealers know how to keep regular clients by offering "freebies" or extra’s after certain clients have spent so much. Pimps have managed to learn how to keep certain women under control by defining their thoughts for them, and making them interdependent upon him and his "efforts" (even if he does nothing) and soothing it over with drugs and the pretense of "protection".


In both cases those individuals and victims, have been "cross-sold" so deeply that to change their situation is thought to be a laborious task with no end in sight. Often change does not occur until they are forced to do so by being totally and physically removed from the situation and environment.


What Happens When A Church Or Minister Takes This Same Approach?


In his recently aired 12/21/2008 Christmas message, "5 Points To My Star" Bishop T.D. Jakes set forth what I thought to be some pretty motivational and inspiring words. But it’s what’s before during and after those words of inspiration that is so utterly shocking and disturbing that I decided to write this post.


First of all, and I don’t claim to know his thoughts, but a 5 Point Star, which was the title of his message, is a pentagram. Now this is probably the easiest type of star to draw and one that most children learn in school, however a pentagram is a symbol of WICCA or Wiccan Witchcraft. In fact, even more disturbingly, an inverted, interlocked pentagram is a symbol of a Satanism aka Luciferianism and a demon icon called Beowulf.







Surprisingly this symbol is also prevalent within Hip-Hop similar to the peace sign which is a broken cross upside down as an anti-war symbol within rock and roll and the free-sex era (which will be addressed in an upcoming post).




It was interesting that Bishop chose 5 points when a more biblically centered symbol would have been the Star Of David, a 6 pointed star drawn from Judaism.


It was even more interesting as he mingled motivational utterances with his version of the gospel. He encouraged the individuals to know 1- That they have nothing to do with the promise of God upon their lives, 2- That they should grow "outside" the system ie: away from religious tradition and peoples expectations 3- They should remember that everyone that follows doesn’t necessarily want them to succeed, and 4- That they should keep their "gifts" hidden while they grow.



I don’t believe he got to the 5th point in that segment, but many of those points especially points 2 and 4 were disturbing because they come right out of the mind control handbook, (if there were such a thing). Secondly, he left the word "gifts" open to interpretation and one can only speculate as to what he means based on other erroneous doctrines that he espouses see :GCMWatch Jakes Exposed

But of equal importance was how concluded that segment and by defining the relationship of Jesus and Mary, his mother.

Using the events of acts 2:4 as his backdrop, Bishop stated that Mary identified Jesus aka the Holy Ghost because he had "been in her womb before." "Before Pentecost" says Jakes, "Jesus was in her womb as a baby but now he was in her womb as a quickening spirit".

Now, I don’t know how one makes the leap from a baby or physical pregnancy to the Holy Ghost indwelling of God’s Spirit, (other than analogously) But Jakes made the case that there was a physical and material identification by Mary to the Holy Ghost whom he identified as Jesus. Not only is this a literal and biblical untruth, it’s a total misrepresentation of the relationship between Jesus and Mary and God and HIS church. In other words what he espoused was rank doctrinal heresy.

Clearly there is an audience that not only cannot recognize when someone is divining their minds and spirits, but also does not care when the most carnal and subjective references and paradigms are used to interpret biblical texts and understand spiritual relationships documented within the bible.

In other words Jakes complete paradigm is not a biblical paradigm but a paradigm based on his personal thoughts and revelations, oneness Pentecostalism , subjugation of the masses through media and propaganda, relationship marketing strategies, and cross-selling ministry services.

If the audience is any representation of the multi-million dollar annual media sales it is obviously possible to get people so deep and intertwined in superficial and fluff, self promotion until whatever is said will always be reinterpreted to mean something different than what it was originally intended or understood to mean.

Biblical Insight

The Star in the biblical record (Mt. 2:2) was a supernatural event, designed to draw those who had eyes to see to Jesus. Neither Herod, Caiphas, or any of those in Judea could see the star (Mt. 2:7) as proven by Herrod’s inquiry that the heavens were not open to them, but it was open to those called "wise men" from the east who at a minimum had traveled a long journey west to see the star that rose in the east. This was a supernatural opening in which the light of the Lord shone through the veil of humanity. An opening that was reminiscent to the Baptism of Jesus in which the heaven’s were opened (Mt. 3:16, Mk. 1:10, Lk. 3:21) and one similar to that through which Jesus appeared to Saul and he was converted to Paul (Acts 9:3) see: T. Michael Davis "Christian Research Journal" Vol. 30 #6 2007 Pg. 19. In all cases the "light" led individuals to Jesus.

The point is that the star wasn’t the focus or the end of the journey, Jesus was.

It would seem that the church is struggling to learn that it doesn’t matter what the points of "our" star are. Jesus already knows what we have suffered that has lead us to this place. What we should remember that if whatever star we follow doesn’t lead us to see Jesus and learn who HE is, it’s a journey that is not worth traveling.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night(or day)

Blessed!

29 comments:

  1. This is a great article that you prepared!

    My family and I used to drive 1:30 hours round trip to attend the Potters House services on Sunday...

    God sent people my way to show me what was going on there...

    Many more should read this!!!

    Thanks!

    Wendell-

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  2. Thank you very much Rev. Wendell.

    I saw this an pondered over whether I should say anything or not, but God seemingly opened the book on what was going on and I was compelled.

    There was an adherant to his ministry that was especially excited that his tithe was going to support so many worthy causes around the world. The causes were certainly noble, but I looked and immediately noticed that it was all about a "hook"

    In other words, "look over my mess and see how others are being blessed" This is dangerous because I know there are a lot of good people who are sincere about giving and helping others but they are being manipulated through marketing and bad doctrine.

    It will take individuals who value God greater than the "convenience" of having a "one stop shop" ministry.

    In marketing and banking strategically there are generally 3 rules to help solidify relationships:

    1- Save time & energy
    2- Save & protect money
    3- Make everything convenient

    Jakes ministry is so large and his marketing plan so comprehensive 1 and 3 are "hooks" to the membership. ie: The rationale is "No matter what I hear, why should I go somplace else, when I can give one "fee" (tithe & offering) and it can go to Kenya and other places to support the homeless and needy?"

    I believe that's the reluctance we see of individuals who KNOW bad doctrine, but sit there anyway as if things will mysteriously change.

    Believe me God will judge and his judgements will be right!

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  3. Pastor Burnett great article and very insightful thanks.

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  4. Wow, truly unbelieveable.
    A message that brings the 5 points of information to point unto Christ, O no but wait, that it's what he were saying. Truly unbelieveable, I think people get to a place that they themselves think more of themself. The sad point is that many will follow.

    Thank brother, Burnett
    For bring a light unto the darkness.

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  5. Supt. Burnett,
    I greet you in the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I pray that the maturing power of the Word and the power of the Holy Ghost will give you power to speak with authority that which will bless the Kingdom of Heaven. Further, I pray that your mind wil be bound with that of Christ.

    That said, having listened to both the sermons that you have put together to propose your "slight of word" hypothesis, it is great to know that you are a student of the Word. In this case I find that you have taken your own opinion of Bishop Jakes's sermon and made it what you would have it to be by literalize the Bishop's words...
    My, my, my what's happening when blessed leaders arrive at a place where their objectivity falls way short of their true intent.

    Having served in ministry now for many years, I have learned that we must be careful about passing judgment and we must be even more careful with what we feed others...

    To be sure, any of us can take the words of someone else's sermon, turn them on their literal stilts and find an audience with the same spirit that will be motivated for the feast being prepared.

    Yes, we have the responsibility to point out heresy or misuse where it exists... But when one does such a thing, one must tell the whole story and must know what they are they must be armed with the unadulterated truth of the Lord. I've learned that it is oft unfair to make a judgment against someone without listening to them in context. Context for a minister's ministry cannot be attained through the judgmental assumptions of one with their own "axe to grind." Make no mistake about it, what we expect from a "thing" we often fine. Just think what would happen in the Kingdom if we, you and I, were more successful at teaching others to expect God to do what He said He will do...

    In the case of reviewing and correcting another's sermons, it would only be fair were you to show the sermon in their entirety to those you are attempting to "influence." Or, were you to sit in the congregation of congregants along with others, with an "open mind" and listen to more than one sermon. I have long found that to be true, one has to have spent some time searching for truth. One sermon or segment of a sermon does not justice do...

    You might then gain the credibility of more than your own amen crowd. In fact, you would likely be given more credibility had you walked in the shoes of those who you see are about to fall, in your opinion. It could then be argued that you are working outside of your own agenda and for God's purposes alone.

    Many times the accuser suffers from that which he or she accuses others of being guilty of... I pray that if that is the case, God reveals His truths to you in the course of time. Obviously you are not the average "hater" but one who gives thought before the chase.

    That said, our greatest victories come when we realize with humility and humble curiosity that we have crossed the bridge of certainty many times and have been humbled to find that we still have yet a ways to go to get to His true riches.

    Finally, consider that it might be easier and more fruitful to nourish and grow one's own land before setting out to nourish, grow or uproot that of another's.

    I and other believers, who love the truth of His Word, can't wait to see what God is doing through you...

    Just as He doesn't despise small beginnings, He doesn't frown upon growth and prosperity--study on it. Be thoroughly blessed.

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  6. Robert,

    OK...Thank you for stopping by, I appreceiate you taking the time to share these rather important comments. I almost don't know where to begin so let me just begin:

    Robert~"My, my, my what's happening when blessed leaders arrive at a place where their objectivity falls way short of their true intent."

    So Robert you basically claim that the tail is wagging the dog here and that somehow I cannot or am not as objective as I "intend" to be when it comes to Jakes message...So, now not only do you know my "intents" you cap that off by also saying this:

    Robert~"Or, were you to sit in the congregation of congregants along with others, with an "open mind" and listen to more than one sermon. I have long found that to be true, one has to have spent some time searching for truth. One sermon or segment of a sermon does not justice do..."

    You say that my criticisms could exist because 1- I haven't listened with an "open mind" 2- haven't spent enough time "searching for truth" and 3- have taken ONE sermon to judge Bishop by.

    Aside from all these false assumptions, you also assume that I am somehow simply panning for an audience:

    Robert~"To be sure, any of us can take the words of someone else's sermon, turn them on their literal stilts and find an audience with the same spirit that will be motivated for the feast being prepared"

    Robert~"In the case of reviewing and correcting another's sermons, it would only be fair were you to show the sermon in their entirety to those you are attempting to "influence."

    So Robert in your world as is common in the world of them that have been so deeply "cross-sold", revealing certain aspects of ungodliness...(which is what the sermon was)is to be condemned. Further those who are spiritually discerning enough to agree, are merely "followers" over which the leader (in this case me) simply exerts control or "influence" over? That's what you're saying...

    So in your world there is no such thing as Discernment (1 Cor. 12:10) there is only politics, motivation and influence, and the "power" is in numbers???

    As if that weren't bad enough you go on to insult the readers and those who comment by saying that they are no more than MY "amen crowd", and that I have no further "credibility" outside of that circle:

    Robert~"You might then gain the credibility of more than your own amen crowd."

    So you would like me to be more appealing maybe to the masses so you can see:

    Robert~"I and other believers, who love the truth of His Word, can't wait to see what God is doing through you..."

    So in essence because I haven't "arrived" at least in your world, the Lord doesn't reveal as much to me because I am "small", at least to you? I mean you said this:

    Robert~"Finally, consider that it might be easier and more fruitful to nourish and grow one's own land before setting out to nourish, grow or uproot that of another's."

    So let me get this straight. Since I am "small" I don't have a right to say what God gives me to say. If commenters agree, they are then relegated to the status of a mere "amen corner", and IF I were to simply have an "open mind" and a more sincere desire to "seek truth" I wouldn't come to these conclusions. And then probably one of the worst statements you made here:

    Robert~"Having served in ministry now for many years, I have learned that we must be careful about passing judgment and we must be even more careful with what we feed others"

    Allrighty THEN....

    You further reveal that you know NOTHING of my opinions of Jakes as you assume that I have judged his whole ministry or person by this fallacious message which you infer that you have received as gospel:

    Robert~"That said, having listened to both the sermons that you have put together to propose your "slight of word" hypothesis,"..."In this case I find that you have taken your own opinion of Bishop Jakes's sermon and made it what you would have it to be by literalize the Bishop's words..."

    Robert, I find your comments not only insulting and demeaning as they are designed to be, but further TOTALLY amazing. Without doubt they are a classic representation of one who has been "cross-sold" into making an excuse for fallacious and heretical doctrine, fictitious interpretations and superimpositions of scripture and worldly mass marketing schems within the context of the church.

    It is people with opinions such as yours that allows this type of heresy and further ungodliness to flourish in the name of "helping humanity". In other words your comments indicate that you have become so intertwined until you no longer discern spiritually but discern with your mind and thoughts and confirm assumptions with flesh and what you see materially.

    Personally, If I'm you, I would have been ashamed to come to this site or any other laying out an argument such as you've done here and revealing what I consider to be an embarassing understanding of ministry, scripture and the current condition of the church.

    I'd like to hear further response from you. I think this sort of thing needs to be drawn out so that others can see, and distinctions of truth and righteousness clearly made.

    God bless.

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  7. This is another sign of them that have been "cross-sold"

    They never offer a critique of the docrtine they receive, they only offer a critique of them that critique those doctrines.

    To say that I unjustly literalized anything Jakes said is a down right lie.

    He's the one that said that Mary identified the Holy Ghost BECAUSE HE (JESUS) had been conceived in her womb before. How else are we to take a heretical piece like that, literally or figuratively?

    What Jakes described is what we see in the movie "Aliens". To suggest that Mary "felt" the Holy Ghost similar to the literal baby in the womb is RIDICULOUS!

    What the whole church should have done was closed their bibles and RAN to the nearest exit. That doesn't address the MESS that led up to that part.

    Justify that Robert, I'll be waiting for your response in particular.

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  8. What Bibles Pastor Burnett? None required when entering that church...Ok forgive me Lord, that was harsh...but truth as I've seen and experienced it from attending the Potter's House (for the purpose of taking "extended family members" that are hyped on the "hype & emotions" rather than sound doctrine)
    When the 1 or 2 scriptures that are read are put up on a screen and then, no more reading of the bible is taught, no need to carry a bible to the "potters house." I just had to get that off my chest.

    Contrary to what some people would comment on this blog, God opened my eyes to the "college- professored-lectures" of Jakes about 3 years ago. I didn't understand at first, but as the Holy Ghost began to teach me and confirm His word through other Saints that are no longer being deceived, I began to hear more and more of what the Spirt of God was saying, and not just what a "man with a title" was saying to the church.

    I in know way will Judge TD Jakes, only God has the right to save or condemn his soul, but I do have the right as a true believer in Christ to judge the fruit of our brother and sister's in Christ, and if the fruit doesn't line up with the fruit of the Holy Spirit, then it's rotten and you must be cautious of eating anything from that "tree."

    I thank God that the Holy Spirit is the true teacher and one only needs to have an ear to hear what He is saying, while not having to be a part of an "amen crowd" to discern what He is saying and earnestly contend for the faith.

    My prayer is for the many sheep that are still receiving error, from any Bishop, Pastor, Elder, Deacon...etc...that they would come into the knowledge of 1 John 2:27. Also, that we as the body of Christ would become more and more like the Bereans and truly get into the word for ourselves and not just be "spoon fed" from the pulpit. These apostate times that we are in calls for no less!

    When a bishop gets in the pulpit and preaches for a hour on the release of his new book, talks about having to cut paid staff due to the economy because just like "businesses are laying off, the church too must lay off", then proceed to make the "sheep" feel guilty and say "if those that are still employed and able to pay their tithes and give more than usual, church layoffs would not have to happen as justification to keep a "man's empire going strong, on top of all the other "emotional, heretical teaching", then yes, I too stand in agreement with those that are not ashamed of the true gospel of Christ and will cry aloud to warn the sheep...along with my brother Pastor Burnett!

    As John the Baptist cried out, "prepare the way of the Lord"
    Just in case folks forgot, Jesus is coming back...Let us all be found ready, watching, prayerful, discerning and walking in the Truth...in love. And no, walking in love does not mean that I'm going to turn a deaf ear towards falsh shepherds twisting the word of God for eathly gain! My name isn't "Godlysoldier" for nothing.

    Excellent, on point article Pastor Burnett. The word of God cuts, so there may be some folks bleeding from this article...but we love them and will help to bandage them up with the very same word that heals and delivers as well!

    Be blessed Saints!

    -Godlysoldier

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  9. Sorry for the double post, something happen to my computer just as I was entering my comment. Pastor, please delete one...then again, it could be the God wanting to get the point across...you know the "doubles" of God...verily, verily...LOL!!

    -Godlysoldier

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  10. Godlysoldier,

    Thank you so much for your insights. Now I wonder what ROBERT will have to say about someone who has been there and touched the pews for themselves?

    I wonder was your mind "open"? Obviously nothing fell out and you retained enough sense to gather yourself and leave-LOL

    This was the 1st technique of Jim Jones also. He told the people eventually that they didn't need a bible, all they had to do was listen to him as the Lord spoke...WHAT A FARCE.

    But I guess only "closed minded" people like us actually pay attention to those sort of things???

    Merry Christmas and stay blessed!

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  11. Brother Beckrl and Sister JJbrock,

    Are you gettin' this? We got some work to do my friends...If I didn't know it before, I sure know it now.

    Blessed

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  12. Pastor Burnett it is so shocking to see how far off course the church have become. Any and everything is allowed in.

    What really turn me against Jakes was at one of his woman thou art loose conference in Atlanta. He had Noel Jone to speak on opening night. He and Jones decided to play tag team. Jakes would preach a minute and then tag Jones he would preach a minute so on it went.

    I viewed that as being dis-respectable of his call.

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  13. -Godlysoldier

    Thank you for giving you point of view that been from the pew. I thank God for revealing the truth unto you. So many do not read the scriptures for themsevles then rely on to be "spood feed"


    Yes, Brother Burnett.
    I see it all around us. It's the spirit of the anti-christ.

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  14. JJbrock,

    I saw that too. It was supposed to be a display of the "kindred spirit" that both he and Noel shared, such that he could begin to preach in a message and Noel could equally share and deliver what God was saying to the people and vice-versa.

    There are a whole BUNCH of folks caught up in this type of hysteria. When I first saw it I was like, WOW. Then I thought about what really happened...that was a stage play...a show designed to appeal to the masses and create the emotion that we saw.

    now I'm certainly not against emotion at all, but it must be contextualized. What are we emotional about? Is it about God and our closer growth in relationship with him or is it simply something that a man did? I mean can will use a man for sure but some of these techniques are right out of the "new age" handbook.

    Another message he preache I was sooooo caught up in for 2 weeks(LOL) "Sacrifice Of Praise" in that message he reconciled the giving up of a excess lover to a "sacrifice" given to God. I mean the context was about Abraham "struggling" to give up Haggar and Ishmael to cling to HIS WIFE Sarah. He said that for Abraham that was a "sacrifice"

    Talk about PERVERTED. Since when is leaving one WHO IS NOT your spouse a sacrifice? I tell you when...when a person isn't really SAVED to begin with...Giving up sin is no sacrifice...that's just a REASONABLE SERVICE isn't it? (Rom. 12:1-2)

    Now I know Robert will probably criticize me some more on this, but I'd like him and those that think like him to answer me this, Since when is coming out of sin a sacrifice?

    Thanks sister I appreciate you and Merry Christmas.

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  15. Beckrl,

    AMEN my brother, the spirit of the anti-Christ 4-real.

    Merry Christmas my friend!

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  16. Wendell, I had a relative that was/is doing the same thing. I was shocked at the amount of money being spent each month ($900)just on gas for the trip to the PH. Plus this individual was buying just about every CD TDJ was spitting out. AND giving tithes and offering! It was a depressing thing for me and underscored just what Pastor Burnett said in this article about those who are being sold false doctrine in exchange for some psychological manipulation that things are somehow "better" there.

    Thanks Pastor Burnett. False teachers like TD Jakes dress nice and speak great swelling words for a reason.

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  17. The mark of a true man of God is one who will preach the Word of God whether it is the popular thing to do or not. It has long been noted that TD Jakes has been giving people some type of psychological, self-esteem, watery message. It is very unfortunate for those who find themselves idolizing his every words and I wish that I could actually type that he is preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. But unfortunately his messages have been diluted with what the common folk want to hear, which are messages with no substance. I'm not here to bad mouth TD Jakes but it is well worth noting that people need to stay clear of his kind of underlining messages that have no Biblical substance to them. The sad part of all is that many churches are preaching the same false doctrinal messages. Where have all the true churches gone?

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  18. $900 a month on gas and conference hoppin'...My Lawd!

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  19. Brother Robert,

    One need not be in the actual Potter's House to hear the trend of Bishop Jakes' teaching and his errant theology. He is a biggie on his version of biblical typology which he invents to suit his premise. The Holy Spirit was in the Womb of Mary? Naomi and Ruth's relationship "borders on lesbianism" and on and on it goes.
    Jakes has ceased using the scripture for the foundation of his preaching; meaning he does not exegete scripture. He spiritualizes texts and manipulates them for his audience. He is indeed a brilliant communicator. I have read (though I do not know this as fact) that he has a genius level IQ. ALl of that must be submitted to the Lordship of Christ and the infilling of the Hol;y Spirit.
    You need to, really and truly need to, pray for discernment between the spirit of a man and the Spirit of the LORD. The first step in doing this will be getting expertly aquainted with the scriptures and the method of application. This will help you see the sheer sleight of tongue and "cunning craftiness of men" that Jakes and many others have resorted to in order to build their monuments and kingdoms unto themselves.
    May the LORD's true and faithful shepherds increase and infuence the sheep all the more. Blessed New Year Elder Burnett

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  20. Bro. Burnett,

    I greet you in the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I pray that the maturing power of the Word and the power of the Holy Ghost will give you power to speak with authority that which will bless the Kingdom of Heaven. Further, I pray that your mind will only be bound with that of Christ. Finally, I pray that your Christmas was excellent--if you don't celebrate Christmas, please accept my apology.

    First, for "Godlysoldier" what bibles? As if to say that bibles are being collected at the door of TPH. Every true believer should be aware that he or she is insufficiently armed were they to be churched without a bible. If you didn’t know that, now you know. If that was not your intent, you should have kept that in your pocket of tricks and tricks are for kids... Further, boasting about your nickname is unbecoming for someone attempting to make a spiritual argument and not an advertisement for comic relief ("My name isn't "Godlysoldier" for nothing."). You be silly... Finally, the screens that you might see in churches across the WORLD today are not the cursed instrument of a magician whose only desire is to show you their tricked out version of the word before quickly removing it so that readers can’t see the truth for themselves… Some folks, like yourself, might not bring a bible to church with you and will need the assistance of this TOOL. If it insults you, bring your bible next time and focus on the words that are being spoken while searching the Holy Spirit and The Word for truth—you are allowed to open your own bible during the sermon (the bible police aren’t gonna get ya). I wonder what will happen when you realize that your present Church is not perfect either—you’ll probably blog and moan about your needs not being met. Here is a suggestion, when you are about to complain about something that you don’t like, pray for divine intervention that the truth will be shown, then prepare to help where you believe there is lack… Don’t instigate! Translate, participate, invigorate and penetrate the hearts of men and women with the true WORD of God in a manner consistent with your Purpose in the Kingdom.

    "Godlysoldier," the most potent comment made by you is "My prayer is for the many sheep that are still receiving error, from any Bishop, Pastor, Elder, Deacon...etc...that they would come into the knowledge of 1 John 2:27. Also, that we as the body of Christ would become more and more like the Bereans and truly get into the word for ourselves and not just be "spoon fed" from the pulpit. These apostate times that we are in calls for no less!" You should have stopped there; I have oft said that if you let a man talk long enough they will either show their true wisdom or their true colors..." That said, I don't believe that you have sufficient truth in your knowledge base/spirit to discern the Word based on the evidence that you have brought before the court of public opinion. Nuff said.

    Bro Burnett said: "So in your world there is no such thing as Discernment (1 Cor. 12:10) there is only politics, motivation and influence, and the "power" is in numbers???"

    Response: On discernment, the implication of my statement is not that there is no such thing as discernment only that you aren't demonstrating the gift of discernment only of "haterism."

    Response: On "there is only politics, motivation and influence, and the "power' is in numbers???" Your tangential rambling here is simply an expose into your own psyche on display for those who can discern such a thing.

    Bro Burnett said: "As if that weren't bad enough you go on to insult the readers and those who comment by saying that they are no more than MY "amen crowd", and that I have no further "credibility" outside of that circle:"

    Response said: If by chance I have insulted any of your readers, please accept my apology. My intention, I assure you, is to point to the facts. It's a fact that you are speaking to an audience of those who believe and think like you do... Whether that insults anyone or not is completely up to them. Congratulations though, you have an audience of kindred spirits.

    Bro Burnett said: "So in essence because I haven't "arrived" at least in your world, the Lord doesn't reveal as much to me because I am "small", at least to you? I mean you said this:"

    Response said: I make no such implication; don't get me caught up in your Napoleonic complex. I have no idea of the size and scope of your ministry or whether or not you have a ministry.

    Bro Burnett said: Robert, I find your comments not only insulting and demeaning as they are designed to be, but further TOTALLY amazing. Without doubt they are a classic representation of one who has been "cross-sold" into making an excuse for fallacious and heretical doctrine, fictitious interpretations and superimpositions of scripture and worldly mass marketing schemes within the context of the church.

    Response said: Don't be insulted, let us dialogue. If this were 10 years ago, I too may have been insulted. I now know that I must 1) consider the source or 2) attempt to relay my opinion with dignity and move on... I hope to learn something in the process. No excuses are being made at all, as I previously alluded to, the more you vent, the more you show your hand.

    Bro Burnett said: "It is people with opinions such as yours that allows this type of heresy and further ungodliness to flourish in the name of "helping humanity". In other words your comments indicate that you have become so intertwined until you no longer discern spiritually but discern with your mind and thoughts and confirm assumptions with flesh and what you see materially."

    Response: Now I am stoking the flames of heresy and ungodliness? Speaking of "over the top..." Educate me my brother, but don't come up with the empty handed tricks that you started the conversation with and don't create another mutant and expect that it doesn't look like a mutant. To that end, when you take a slither of truth and a whole lot of counterfeit assumptions/opinions you create a mutant that will only be seen by someone who recognized truth. The major theme of my initial response could have been summed up by these words, 1) Show us a sustainable ministry that you have built and you have more credibility when addressing someone else's ministry, 2) don't make your argument on a false assumption that is not verifiable and mostly untrue, 3) Spend more time working in the field and you won't have time to judge that which you have little exposure to and first-hand and sustained knowledge of…

    Bro Burnett said: "Personally, If I'm you, I would have been ashamed to come to this site or any other laying out an argument such as you've done here and revealing what I consider to be an embarrassing understanding of ministry, scripture and the current condition of the church."

    Response: I will only answer by saying, show us the fruit of your labor being a builder in the Kingdom. Don't become Pharisaic in nature...

    Bro Burnett said: "He's the one that said that Mary identified the Holy Ghost BECAUSE HE (JESUS) had been conceived in her womb before. How else are we to take a heretical piece like that, literally or figuratively?

    Response: Quote the entire recitation for your crew... The context of the sermon suggests, as was received by the majority of those in attendance, was that Mary was the only person present during the day of Pentecost, who had twice experienced God in the manner by which she did (first when impregnated by the Holy Spirit and secondly during the Day of Pentecost). First when impregnated by the Holy Ghost and then during the day of Pentecost... Your take is nothing more than MUTANT reality...

    Ponder this thought, "your culture influences your theology."

    We only transcend our cultural value system when we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth! It's a game changer...

    All4Jesus

    ReplyDelete
  21. Elder Burnett,

    You give great advice in your later blog that we should all become more acquanted with scriptures. I will continue to take you up on that...

    Be blessed and enjoy an awesome New Year...

    ReplyDelete
  22. Robert,

    Thanks for coming back and openly displaying your alligence to "flesh" once again. Since you don't address any on the concerns I ask you to address, I'll simply pick up where you're leading:

    Robert:First, for "Godlysoldier" what bibles? As if to say that bibles are being collected at the door of TPH. Every true believer should be aware that he or she is insufficiently armed were they to be churched without a bible. If you didn’t know that, now you know. If that was not your intent, you should have kept that in your pocket of tricks and tricks are for kids...

    I won’t let you go unchecked on any criticism that you level at the people of God on this blog. #1-Godlysoldier IS NOT a kid and what she said IS NOT trick. What she said is certainly on point and is from EXPERIENCE which you said would offer more credibility. In fact you told me this…

    Robert~“…Or, were you to sit in the congregation of congregants along with others, with an "open mind" and listen to more than one sermon.”

    So is it a trick when someone disagrees with your assessments after reviewing the same material all up close and first hand like and comes to a totally different conclusion? But yet you present an ad hominem like this:

    Robert:“Further, boasting about your nickname is unbecoming for someone attempting to make a spiritual argument and not an advertisement for comic relief ("My name isn't "Godlysoldier" for nothing.").You be silly”

    So Robert, the only point you’re making is that you’re a borderline misogynist and are duped and under the control of Jakes and probably others and that you don’t care how anyone else derived at their conclusions only that you can’t stand it because it kicks over your “golden cow”. Now that sounds like a trick and that sounds like a KID to me. So, if you’d refrain from attacking individuals, especially WOMEN, and try to make a biblical argument, I would appreciate it...that is IF you have your bible???

    Then here’s another problem You seem to have NO CLUE as to what the bible actually says about seeking God. You said:

    Robert:“Here is a suggestion, when you are about to complain about something that you don’t like, pray for divine intervention that the truth will be shown, then prepare to help where you believe there is lack¦ Don’t instigate! Translate, participate, invigorate and penetrate the hearts of men and women with the true WORD of God in a manner consistent with your Purpose in the Kingdom.

    In other words, if Godlysoldier goes to your church, (because you let us know that you do attend) and finds something wrong, she should SHUTUP and place the blame on herself for seeing the truth as it really is, and try to get involved as to convince herself otherwise against what she sees…WHO’S THE TRICKSTER? The one seeing the mess or the one trying to convince others that it really doesn’t exist and that there's no problem. I got a good article for you Parlor Tricks & Magic...Read it, study it, know it, feel it..It’s YOU!

    Robert:On discernment, the implication of my statement is not that there is no such thing as discernment only that you aren't demonstrating the gift of discernment only of "haterism."

    So it “haterism” (whatever that is) to point out the truth of what’s being said and to bring to light the logical conclusions of statements through not only spiritual impartation but deductive reasoning? Hmmm. Sounds like much preached biblical psychology doth drive thee mad...

    Concerning my answer and of flesh pandering which you accuse me of, you say this of my answer:

    Robert: “Your tangential rambling here is simply an expose into your own psyche on display for those who can discern such a thing.”

    So, let me get this right, you can discern my psyche, BUT CANNOT discern flesh in the pulpit, do not know the biblical definition of discernment, and cannot identify a true word form God. Further, you do not like someone who meets the criteria for criticism that YOU established in this thread. And you say I’m rambling...yea RIGHT!

    Robert: If by chance I have insulted any of your readers, please accept my apology.

    Why thank you Robert, that was ALMOST kind of you, only to be placed back on the heap of garbage by the concluding portion of your statements:

    Robert:My intention, I assure you, is to point to the facts. It's a fact that you are speaking to an audience of those who believe and think like you do... Whether that insults anyone or not is completely up to them. Congratulations though, you have an audience of kindred spirits.

    What it seems Robert is that I have an audience of Godly individuals. Both men and women who, even when we disagree, know how to respect God within the individual. Thank God that I identify people who read the blog and others who comment that are God sensitive and are sick of game players and charlatans peddling their wares from church to church. Me being of NO reputation of fancy marketing schemes, am fortunate to have people who recognize the standard of HOLINESS, know the WORD of God, see it and help lift it up. If you weren’t so busy holding up a standard of MEN you could do the same.


    I said this previously: "So in essence because I haven't "arrived" at least in your world, the Lord doesn't reveal as much to me because I am "small", at least to you? You said this:"

    Robert:I make no such implication; don't get me caught up in your Napoleonic complex. I have no idea of the size and scope of your ministry or whether or not you have a ministry.

    The evidence doesn’t work well for you Robert, you said this to me:

    “My, my, my what's happening when blessed leaders arrive at a place where their objectivity falls way short of their true intent.”

    How can I be a “blessed leader” when you don’t even know whether I “have a ministry”? or maybe even this one:

    “I and other believers, who love the truth of His Word, can't wait to see what God is doing through you...Just as He doesn't despise small beginnings, He doesn't frown upon growth and prosperity--study on it. Be thoroughly blessed.

    So here you go again Robert, placing your opinions in two or three sentences and vicariously acknowledging that you think , bigger is better, and more visable is God speaking. So which one is it Robert, were you lying then OR now?...Who’s the trickster Robert? I think we can all she who that is...a man who attacks a woman, then lies about what he says about another man...besides false doctrine and pulpit psychology WHAT ARE YOU REALLY LEARNING AT THE POTTERS HOUSE?” Inquiring minds would like to know

    Robert:Don't be insulted, let us dialogue. If this were 10 years ago, I too may have been insulted. I now know that I must 1) consider the source or 2) attempt to relay my opinion with dignity and move on... I hope to learn something in the process. No excuses are being made at all, as I previously alluded to, the more you vent, the more you show your hand.

    You are very funny to me, pt. 1 consider this- I have NO REGARD for them who follow man and insult people because their idols have been kicked over. 2- What “dignity” have you offered except what I consider to be a FAKE prayer of blessing at the beginning of your blog entrys? I’ll tell you what dignity you’ve successfully displayed…NONE, ZILCH, NADA, ZERO! I believe that you are a product of your own press.

    Robert: Now I am stoking the flames of heresy and ungodliness? Speaking of "over the top..."

    Absolutely

    Robert:Educate me my brother, but don't come up with the empty handed tricks that you started the conversation with and don't create another mutant and expect that it doesn't look like a mutant.

    You are the only one who has offered any tricks, you just got caught, in addition I don’t take the blame for how you look, I’m like the plastic surgeon trying to help YOU out...’cause you ugly right now.”

    Robert: To that end, when you take a slither of truth and a whole lot of counterfeit assumptions/opinions you create a mutant that will only be seen by someone who recognized truth.

    As you and your counterfeit have been seen and are seen by ME!

    Robert: The major theme of my initial response could have been summed up by these words,

    Now we are thematic...WOW!

    Robert: 1) Show us a sustainable ministry that you have built and you have more credibility when addressing someone else's ministry,

    I don’t have anything to prove to you, but all one has to do is open their eyes and see, do a little research to find that I didn’t arrive yesterday neither did I fall off the turnip truck (as you appear to have) last night…I am known and respected in my community for MINISTRY and GODLY service. Not charlatanism or embellishing the WORD or God or manipulating people. Everywhere I’ve gone there has been NO CONTROVERSY in my wake. Cities I left were SORRY to see me go because I was an asset to the community. We can’t truthfully say the same about everyone NOW CAN WE?

    Robert: 2) don't make your argument on a false assumption that is not verifiable and mostly untrue,

    What can’t be verified is that Jakes message was true at all. The 5 Point Star was a message about self, self blessing and personal empowerment, NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Robert: 3) Spend more time working in the field and you won't have time to judge that which you have little exposure to and first-hand and sustained knowledge of¦

    This is classic and EXACTLY what the apostate wants, persons such as myself to turn their heads and become preoccupied with individual ministry until we see nothing else. In other words, the “watchman should come off the wall” and let the sheep be exposed... Further we should let our ministries be defined by others supposedly "in the know"

    Now, I’ll ask you, When’s the last hungry person you personally fed, or person you personally visited at the hospital that wasn’t your family, or student that you personally took under your wing at a public school, or person that you personally bought clothes for, or community outreach event that you personally paid for ? I would venture that you’ve NEVER done any of these things and certainly wouldn’t do them on an ongoing basis as I DO, have done and continue to do...Talk to a neophyte about “working in the field” I’ve worked in the field for over 27 years. I started on street corner ministry witnessing to prostitutes, pimps, drug addicts and the homeless...that’s why I know a charlatan when I see one and I identify self-dealing such as yours... and to my fault I HAVE NO PATIENCE WITH IT.

    My work speaks everyday. In fact one of the prostitutes that I witnessed to over 25 years ago is starting to go to church now and heard me preach from the pulpit over 25 years after she laughed me to scorn in the streets. You haven’t a CLUE my brutha. In addition I have FIRST HAND experience and knowledge of Jakes and his ministry...you CERTAINLY don’t know where I’ve been or who I know.”


    Robert: I will only answer by saying, show us the fruit of your labor being a builder in the Kingdom. Don't become Pharisaic in nature...

    I get it…I’m on “Candid Internet” right? Where’s the camera or whatever…you’re a jokester 4-real…almost had me going…a regular “Chris Rock” of internet entertainment???

    I like (IN A TOTALLY REPULSIVE WAY) the way you TWIST scripture and make more subjective assumptions than even most atheists that I know. Concerning Jakes teaching on Jesus and the Holy Ghost in Mary’s womb you said:

    Robert:Quote the entire recitation for your crew...

    Robert, there are others, including myself, that heard EXACTLY what he said. Saint James already spoke to the fact, but even here you don’t offer the quote or any portion because you know it’s full of holes and totally fallacious.

    Robert: The context of the sermon suggests, as was received by the majority of those in attendance,

    Now help me here Robert. The context “as was received by most”? What does that mean? You can either deal with the context or deal with your interpretation of what he said. Either way none of that proves that what Jakes said was right. One thing you can’t do is deal with what the “most” received? Did you have an exit poll? So if you’re trying to contextualize his message do that, although as I said, you have a problem, I saw and head what he said for myself...You certainly can’t say that what was received by the “majority of those in attendance”. Well I stand corrected, you can say that they received "false doctrine". That would be accurate.

    Robert:was that Mary was the only person present during the day of Pentecost, who had twice experienced God in the manner by which she did (first when impregnated by the Holy Spirit and secondly during the Day of Pentecost).

    Since this is your contextualization or explanation of what Jakes said, you should also know that this is a PATENTLY false statement and assumption and superimposition of scripture. How did he know what Mary thought of felt? Certainly she showed no display of that knowledge to either Peter or any of those in Acts 2…I don’t see her name MENTIONED ONE TIME as one who gives a testimony to the fact that the Jesus implanted in her uterus has reappeared in the form of the Holy Ghost…Man your defense of Jakes and his rank and heretical spiritualizations are ridiculous, unfounded and totally off base…What are you talking about? Have you lost your mind?

    Robert: First when impregnated by the Holy Ghost and then during the day of Pentecost... Your take is nothing more than MUTANT reality...

    Jakes preached a totally false and unbiblical concept of the Holy Ghost. First he believes that Jesus is the Holy Ghost…FALSE ASSUMPTION…Secondly he believes that the Holy Ghost took residence within her womb, stomach or physical body causing her to identify HIM…another FALSE ASSUMPTION…Third, he promotes this as if it is biblically centered and anyone with a bible can read for themselves that it’s not even CLOSE to the truth. The Holy Ghost indwelling was not even reckoned to a pregnant woman. The Spirit is not “birthed” in a way that a pregnant woman carries a child, neither is the physical response of anyone who receives the Holy Ghost similar to receiving a pregnancy…you Jakes apologetic is TOTALLY ABSURD ROBERT

    RobertPonder this thought, "your culture influences your theology."...We only transcend our cultural value system when we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth! It's a game changer...

    What does that mean Robert? As if I don’t know already...In your world we are not to think critically of these “great anointed men of God” especially not Jakes RIGHT? Pllleeeassse! Become Christocentric in your argumentation and your affiliations and we will have something to talk about...You mention that you are “All4Jesus” I am convinced that you are “All4Heretical Doctrine and Teaching From Jakes” You have certainly convinced me of at least that much.

    You mention that you’ll return again, all I can say is thanks Robert and I do look forward to you returning often

    ReplyDelete
  23. Bro Burnett,

    I greet you in the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I pray that your head doesn't explode as you seem a little tense in your last transmittal.

    That said, it's obvious that you are guilty of what you accuse others of, listen to your own rhetoric. Search yourself...

    You come off as one who has worked in the fields for a long time and are miffed that you haven't considered that you aren't Moses but instead you might be the "burning bush." Don't take that as an insult and run off on one of your tirades...

    More to the point, for some it takes a lifetime to realize that they are not experiencing major breakthroughs because they are being consumed by their own fire when they are purposed to be a non consuming fire...

    Stop complaining and get back to work!

    For Ms. Godlysoldier, I had no idea that you were women, but it would not have mattered. What on earth does Godlysoldier's gender have to do with her rhetoric?

    If either of you believe the mess that you have written regarding "the bible patrol" taking your bibles and attempting to control your thoughts, get a shrink.

    I would never instruct anyone to stay where they feel that they cannot grow to their purposed place in the Kingdom, but don't let the opinions of a disgruntled few lead you astray. Yes I realize that that "crabs in a barrel" mentality permeates in our society and even in our sanctuaries.

    Again I'll say to you, I have made no statements of knowledge or fact that says that I have firsthand knowledge of the size and scope of your knowledge. That said, I can now conclude that you do show signs of Napoleonic Complex. The proof is the fact that you continue to make the comparison about the size of your ministry in comparison to the size of those that are known to be larger.

    That said, most folk that I know have all started on the street corner ministering to pimps, prostitutes, drug dealers, those formerly incarcerated or can I just say broken vessels. You seem to have wanted me to know that you are working with the "lowest of the low" and I must have no idea.

    I still work with every group that you mentioned and a few others. It's not because I chose to work with them but because I have been chosen to work with them.... As I often say to others who make fewer assumptions, "they are me."

    Bro Burnett said: "I don’t have anything to prove to you, but all one has to do is open their eyes and see, do a little research to find that I didn’t arrive yesterday neither did I fall off the turnip truck (as you appear to have) last night…I am known and respected in my community for MINISTRY and GODLY service. Not charlatanism or embellishing the WORD or God or manipulating people. Everywhere I’ve gone there has been NO CONTROVERSY in my wake. Cities I left were SORRY to see me go because I was an asset to the community. We can’t truthfully say the same about everyone NOW CAN WE?"

    Response: these sums up your purpose, your angst, your displeasure and your obstacles. I believe that if you were to study yourself and identify what is really going on with yourself you would probably move on from the pain that plagues you...

    Bro Burnett said: "Now, I’ll ask you, When’s the last hungry person you personally fed, or person you personally visited at the hospital that wasn’t your family, or student that you personally took under your wing at a public school, or person that you personally bought clothes for, or community outreach event that you personally paid for ? I would venture that you’ve NEVER done any of these things and certainly wouldn’t do them on an ongoing basis as I DO, have done and continue to do..."

    Response: You don't have a clue. The difference between me working in these types of ministries and you working in these types of ministries, I believe might be found in your inability to make the transition to the fullness of your calling. You don't have to stay stuck in the mud.

    I'm attempting to keep these short so that you don't continue to spit out a lot of nonsense and make several false assumptions and even began to call me names.

    One thing that I can say, you are pregnant with something, I pray you find out what that is...

    Be blessed.

    All4Jesus

    ReplyDelete
  24. Question: During the 2008 Holy Convocation did you walk out when Bishop Jakes spoke?

    If you stayed, what did you think of the sermon?

    Be Blessed.

    All4Jesus

    ReplyDelete
  25. Robert,

    Here we go again, and it's things like this that just makes this blog worth doing:

    Robert: I pray that your head doesn't explode as you seem a little tense in your last transmittal.

    The only explosions that are happening here is that your fallacious and absurd arguments are being blown up and you're beginning to lie to cover your trail. I'm good for this is the dialogue that the church must have when confronted both with charlatans and charlatan supporters...you fit one if not both of those descriptions so I'm like a fish in water...4-real

    Robert: That said, it's obvious that you are guilty of what you accuse others of, listen to your own rhetoric. Search yourself...

    You are living proof that pots still do talk, and they still do speak to kettles, now don't they?

    Robert: You come off as one who has worked in the fields for a long time and are miffed that you haven't considered that you aren't Moses but instead you might be the "burning bush." Don't take that as an insult and run off on one of your tirades...

    Do you even know what you're talking about? God was in the bush that burned but was not consumed in Exodus 3. Your interpretive and insult needs some practice here. I certainly can't figure out what you mean.

    Robert: More to the point, for some it takes a lifetime to realize that they are not experiencing major breakthroughs because they are being consumed by their own fire when they are purposed to be a non consuming fire...

    Robert what kind MICKEY MOUSE allegorical interpretation was that??? HIS ministers are a flaming fire (Ps. 104:4, Heb. 1:7)NOT a consuming fire. God is the ONLY consuming fire. (Deut. 4:24, Heb. 12:9)

    Now I know Jakes has some issues with certain scriptural interpretations BUT I thought that your's was even BEYOND his ability...However, after carefully examining your statements, one certainly can't come up with blatant reinventions of scripture and twistings such as yours, on their own...can they??? My LAWD...What in the world is that?

    Robert: For Ms. Godlysoldier, I had no idea that you were women, but it would not have mattered. What on earth does Godlysoldier's gender have to do with her rhetoric?

    What Godlysoldier gave was TESTIMONY based on her experience which you said would offer more "credibility". ONLY YOU offered any sort of "rhetoric" or equivocations. Further, you totally overlooked other statemens from Men, and you didn't deal with anything I said and totally looked over what Saint James said...In fact among other things he said this:

    Saint James:"The Holy Spirit was in the Womb of Mary? Naomi and Ruth's relationship "borders on lesbianism" and on and on it goes.
    Jakes has ceased using the scripture for the foundation of his preaching; meaning he does not exegete scripture. He spiritualizes texts and manipulates them for his audience"


    That was pretty to the point and dealt with MORE THAN one message which you said would be another criteria to establish credibility...Robert, you're not doing too good trying to reason here. I believe you lost that ability long before entering this site. That's why it's like pulling teeth to get you to see real truth and bring you to a godly understanding.

    Robert:If either of you believe the mess that you have written regarding "the bible patrol" taking your bibles and attempting to control your thoughts, get a shrink.

    It's not a matter of what I or anyone believes so far as Godlysoldier's statements, it's a matter of her PERSONAL experience within your church and her personal observations of the decorum and actual events. Now, you may not like it, but it's one of those things that I guess you didn't have an "exit poll" for to determine how they did the multiple times that she and her family visited. further your refusal to come to grip with the fact that these practices exist in your church and that the bible is not EXAMINED in your church is an indication that you should take your own advice and obtain a "shrink" for yourself.

    Robert: I would never instruct anyone to stay where they feel that they cannot grow to their purposed place in the Kingdom, but don't let the opinions of a disgruntled few lead you astray. Yes I realize that that "crabs in a barrel" mentality permeates in our society and even in our sanctuaries.

    That's one of the more reasonable things you've said Robert and I agree 100%, but you can't deny her, the rendering of her experience simply because you don't like it.

    Robert: Again I'll say to you, I have made no statements of knowledge or fact that says that I have firsthand knowledge of the size and scope of your knowledge.

    We've been there and done that. The evidence speaks for itself. Now you are fallable and may have written what you did not intend to write, so I won't press the point.

    Robert: That said, I can now conclude that you do show signs of Napoleonic Complex.

    Just when I thought we were getting on the right track here there you go with the Jakesian psychoanalysis. You got Dr. Phil on speed dial too?

    Robert: The proof is the fact that you continue to make the comparison about the size of your ministry in comparison to the size of those that are known to be larger.

    No the proof is that you don't believe that Jakes can be corrected or challenged by anyone unless they have a platform equal to his...That's the EVIDENCE that YOU have left in this thread not me. Your level of respect lies in your ability to "see" or experience the material aspects of a ministry before it can challenge your "golden calf" that you've erected. The only reason I entertain you in this blog is because so many others have also been duped in to such false beliefs as yours. In fact leaders that have arrived to a certain level will only receive correction from ministers who are "on their platform" This is called self-exaltation and your interpretive is full of it's taints and subjectivisms. That is the tragedy of your posting.

    Robert: That said, most folk that I know have all started on the street corner ministering to pimps, prostitutes, drug dealers, those formerly incarcerated or can I just say broken vessels. You seem to have wanted me to know that you are working with the "lowest of the low" and I must have no idea.

    You made rash assumptions about me. You even said this:

    Robert: 3) Spend more time working in the field and you won't have time to judge that which you have little exposure to and first-hand and sustained knowledge of¦

    so ANY and ALL comments I made regarding that was to place your rash assertion that I wasn't "working in the field" in it's proper context of a assumptive lie. This is an error that YOU made not me.


    Robert: I still work with every group that you mentioned and a few others. It's not because I chose to work with them but because I have been chosen to work with them.... As I often say to others who make fewer assumptions, "they are me."

    Good but that doesn't answer my questions or the situation I pose. I pose and yet pose that you like too may protectors of your "golden calfs" are the least involved in bringing real change because your company markets a "one payment meets all needs scheme" that you lazily fall into. That's why you become protective of the "calf" Anything the threatens your system is automatically wrong and biased. You've displatyed that bias even against eyewitness testimony. Idolotry is a terrible and grievious sin and problem. You should ask Saul (1 Kings 15)

    Bro Burnett said: "I don’t have anything to prove to you, but all one has to do is open their eyes and see, do a little research to find that I didn’t arrive yesterday neither did I fall off the turnip truck (as you appear to have) last night…I am known and respected in my community for MINISTRY and GODLY service. Not charlatanism or embellishing the WORD or God or manipulating people. Everywhere I’ve gone there has been NO CONTROVERSY in my wake. Cities I left were SORRY to see me go because I was an asset to the community. We can’t truthfully say the same about everyone NOW CAN WE?"

    Robert:these sums up your purpose, your angst, your displeasure and your obstacles. I believe that if you were to study yourself and identify what is really going on with yourself you would probably move on from the pain that plagues you...

    In other words you don't have an answer but you know exactly what I'm talking about...interesting.

    Bro Burnett said: "Now, I’ll ask you, When’s the last hungry person you personally fed, or person you personally visited at the hospital that wasn’t your family, or student that you personally took under your wing at a public school, or person that you personally bought clothes for, or community outreach event that you personally paid for ? I would venture that you’ve NEVER done any of these things and certainly wouldn’t do them on an ongoing basis as I DO, have done and continue to do..."

    Robert: You don't have a clue. The difference between me working in these types of ministries and you working in these types of ministries, I believe might be found in your inability to make the transition to the fullness of your calling. You don't have to stay stuck in the mud.

    Robert I'm not stuck...the ministry is doing EXACTLY what God wants it to do when and how. We're good. Once again you show your materialistic insight by hurling around a term called "fullness of your calling" You have NO IDEA what that means...It's obvious from your dissertation. Ministering to the needy IS NOT a steppingstone to greater things...that's what we are called to do PERIOD. Not sit in ivory towers or at banquets or to be excorted to the front of large crowds, those things happen incidentally to true ministry...true ministry is "IN THE FIELD" as you say. This blog and our churches are merely extensions of true ministry not the total of them...you've got it twisted as all too many in superficial ministries do my friend.

    Robert: I'm attempting to keep these short so that you don't continue to spit out a lot of nonsense and make several false assumptions and even began to call me names.

    It's all nonsense when YOU don't agree isn't it Robert? You've made a name for yourself not me...so whatever names you're called are cetainly apripos

    Robert: One thing that I can say, you are pregnant with something, I pray you find out what that is...

    No you've got the wrong one. I'm nor pregnant with anything. I am however full of the Holy Ghost and that with FIRE! We don't do cross-gender teaching here. the church is the bride of Christ. Since I'm in the church that's about as close in an allegorical context to a woman that I'll ever be...but silly pulpit psychobable will even have men "pregnant" in the modern church...save that for yourself.

    What's makes this so funny is that early on, about some 25 to 26 years ago people were saying stuff like what you say. Talking about being "pregnant in the spirit" That garbage is a TOTAL discrace to the gospel, the church and the Saints of God.

    So far as Jakes at Convocation...did you even have to ask...There's NO WAY I would have went or stayed to hear him. I received the reports of a similar, DRY, emotionally centered message with no substance. What do I need that for? Dry wood is only good to be burned UNLESS it has termites.

    Later Robert, as I stated you're welcome although I would like to see a lot more biblical insights from you as opposed to the flesh centered ones that you offer.

    ReplyDelete
  26. In order to conseve space I simply posted Robert's complete comment below because I will add my response to his assertions.

    Robert said...
    Pastor Burnett,

    I greet you in the name of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    When will you be leaving COGIC?

    Was there an invitation to leave extended? I must have missed that memo. You have some inside informtaion? Is there a letter in the mail? Ooh my goodness!

    I know firsthand that several of COGIC's leaders disagree with your rhetorical babblings--including some of my own relatives.

    I know firsthand that the church that you attend preaches false and heretical doctrine, has a strong marketing ministry that has hooked followers such as yourself through the art of "cross-selling". I know for a fact that you support false doctrine and sensationalist dogma by your assertions made here and your response to me in this blog. I know for a fact that other individuals, who'm I didn't speak with regarding this issue also experienced the same sort of delusion before they were able to break free of the influence of false teachers and doctrine. Now I need noone to agree with me regarding those things because I have seen them first hand as I didn't make you write any of what you've written. One lesson to learn is that agreement with people, is not necessarily an indicator of agreement with truth. That is why hell has enlarged herself (Is. 5:14) and yet people continue to agree in false doctrine opening the door and preparing their place in hell.

    I can say one thing; you are the vanguard for the COGIC of 26 or 27 years ago.

    I honestly can't say that COGIC was any better back then, but I know there were a lot more biblically centered and sincere people. With the exception of those who were apostates and homosexuals, such as the late former General Board Member Bishop J.D. Husband, but in all the real saints managed to do ok

    NEWSFLASH! COGIC has progressed far beyond having its major concern be women wearing pants, lipstick, showing armpits etc., etc., etc.

    NEWSFLASH back to ya...in 27 years of ministry, I have NEVER preached a message on womens dress or any of the things you mentioned. In fact, I have never had to, as I've never been preoccupied with those things other than to examine how we have changed. So whatever point you believe that you make here is another invalid and false assumption on your part...sorry.

    The faithful will now read their bibles, challenge the status quo, go to bible school and ensure that they aren't receiving too heavy handed a dose of personal preference mixed in with "scripture."

    No, the faithful to God will be encouraged to deal with apostates who espouse and support false doctrine and reclaim the church back to God for it belongs to HIM in the first place. Hopefully afer reading this interchange and your complete failure to offer and biblical basis for your position in support of false and erroneous beliefs, the real people of God will rise and challenge false teachers lurking in their churches. You forget one of the most valuable lessons within scripture, the devil has always wanted God's church as a place to call his own to receive his worship, and that God has never left himself without a witness and is both a defender and liberator of the righteous and sides with the oppressed. Further it is God that leads his people out of bondage. I'm content doing everything that God has called me to do and I was certainly born to do this.

    The day of having the Minister/Elder/Bishop stand in the pulpit and mix bible truths with the urges of one’s own misgivings are over--for the most part anyway.

    Those days were over before they began. there was something called handwriting that was written on the wall long before I got here. I just happen to read and pay attention to it instead of playing church and becoming enamoured with flesh and sin. You support people who did what we used to do in the dirt of southern Georgia, PLAY CHURCH. All I'm saying is wake up out of your sleep, because the night is far spent and the day is at hand(Rom. 13:11-12, Ephes. 5:14)

    Engaging in scriptural discussion with you would be fruitless, at this juncture. Your issue is not that you don't know scripture; you just believe that you have a grasp on scripture beyond your ability. It's common in the COGIC of 25-35 years ago.

    OK...So now I believe I have a grasp of scripture beyond my ability? Which one is it? Since I know scripture according to you, why would I believe that I have a "grasp beyond my ability"? Do you know what you are saying? further how do you know the beliefs I have regarding my grasp of scriptures? You are a puzzled and puzzling person.

    Then you say that "my belief that I have a grasp of scripture beyond my ability" was common in COGIC 25 to 35 years ago? OK so you also know other COGIC members who believed what you state about their grasp of scriptures back then?

    Although I can't say where you get your information from, I would suppose you got it from the same people of whom who said this:

    "I know firsthand that several of COGIC's leaders disagree with your rhetorical babblings--including some of my own relatives.

    Now are these the same people from who'm you gained your information? If so you've placed them in the same situation as me...people who "believe" that they have a grasp of scipture beyond their ability also??? Since that's what you said of both them and me, how are they more credible than I since we are in the same boat? I would like to know how you pick and choose who to listen to and not listen to regarding this.

    However, should you ever come to Dallas, Oakland or San Diego let me know, it would be great to have a real discussion with you.

    OK, I can go to any three cities and catch up with you huh? Well shut me UP! Aiight now, thanks for the invite. If it's half as much fun as speaking with you on this blog I certainly can't wait!

    There are many who continue to run sinners away from the church rather than church them in spite of their shortcomings.

    TRUE. So what we feed them by way of truth and true doctrine is vitally important.

    I don't believe that you are that type.

    That type of what?

    You just believe that you deserve more pay (respect, acknowledgement etc.) than those who arrived later in the work day...

    There you go telling me what I believe again...That is certainly a flawed debate tactic. I deserve no more than an child of god deserves. Although it is a biblical construct for the young to learn from the aged, and for the gospel to be handed down to those who are newer to the faith. Those concepts are in biblical order. You shouldn't be upset that I take my place within the frame and context of biblical order because God said that ALL things should be done decently and in order, didn't he? So I would be derilect(sp) of my duties IF I did not take my place as an elder while simultaneously making room for and preferring other elders of the faith, who have proven themselves to be sound in the WORD and doctrine...Isn't that our biblical charge? To use your phrase, why show "haterism" towards me because I value what I have received from the Lord more highly than men?

    Again, as it relates to Godlysoldier. You don't get it. She is expressing an opinion. It is similar to saying, "I like being in a smaller church because they make me feel comfortable only to go to a smaller church and never speak to anyone because no one talks to you." She too has a responsibility.

    We got that my brother, she simply nmade an observation and based on what I know it wasn't a single event that turned sour, it was repeated and duplicated

    Folks come up with whatever they want and blame others for their own ignorance or laziness.

    Sometimes that's the case, I agree, but you can't place your thoughts regarding that on her. She may addres it herself, until then, that's her experience.

    I don't know if she is either, only that she is totally wrong in her assumption. Let us agree, EVERY CHURCH IS NOT FOR EVERYONE...
    Be blessed.
    All4Jesus
    December 30, 2008 9:46 PM

    Aiight, I'll agree, EVERY CHURCH is not for every one. That's certainly true. But a church that espouses false doctrine IS NOT for ANYONE. Anyway, thanks again I appreciate the dialogue.

    ReplyDelete
  27. ROBERT SAID THIS:
    Pastor,

    You're still up at this hour? Get some sleep and live to fight another day.

    In closing, you don't have a clue about TPH ministry. I would suggest you spend more time working on your own ministry.
    Try "reaching the lost and teaching the saved to serve." It will keep you busy.

    Robert I have concluded that YOU are lost and I'm cetainly spending time reaching you as you have evidenced by your commentary that you really need to establish a relationship with Jesus

    Be blessed.
    All4Jesus
    December 31, 2008 1:22 AM

    In Conclusion Robert I will monitor your commentary. If you have something substantive you may comment otherwise remarks like this will be deleted. I hate to ban you from this site as you have been from others, but I will. Thanks, get saved and have a Happy New Year!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Wow Pastor Burnett, I just happened to peruse the sight while at work right now and I'm totally in awe that "Robet" would give my "comment" so much energy in comparison to others. Oh there's so much I could say, but after reading all of his banting, I can only quote what the Elder from my COGIC Evangelism class always quoted that's stuck with me for over 10 years now (yes Pastor Burnett, The Holy Ghost was a bold witness in my life as well on the streets back in the day witnessing in crack houses, to dope dealers, gang members, the homeless etc...ALL GLORY TO GOD!)

    Anyway...the quote goes: "When witnessing, it's like throwing a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that barks the loudest is usually the one that got hit the hardest by the rock (the Word)" end of quote. SELAH!

    Obviously, my "personal testimony" of The Potter's House hit the "nail on the head" so to say, as I wouldn't want to be accused of calling "Robert" a dog now would I...

    And thank you Pastor Burnett for responding so appropriately and allowing the "Lady" that I am to remain just that without having to revert back to the "flesh" as "Robert" found he needed to do to respond to "my personal testimony."

    You know Pastor Burnett, I found that you were "provoked" to go there like Paul had to in listing your credentials to the "church folk" to get them to understand you really count that all as dung for the excellecies of knowing Christ in all of His "holiness and your love for the church and feeding the sheep sound doctrine...even "Robert."

    Yes Pastor Burnett, give me a Pastor that stands for old time Holiness, pure and proper exegete of Scriptures with a no nonsense stand for sound doctrine OVER
    an "inclusive-proclaim-Jesus-is-the-way-while-in-the-pulpit-but-claim-another-thing-while-on-secular-talkshows-or-interviews-just-to-get-book-sales-and-stay-relevant-with-reprobates-to-keep-living-a-mega-lifestyle-that-glorifies-the-flesh-rather-than-the-Kingdom-Of-God-blind-leader-that's-leading-the-blind ANYDAY.

    Have a safe, sound and Holy-Spirit filled New Year Saints!

    My name is Godlysoldier, I'm female and I approve this comment and this BLOG! LOL! I just had to go there Pastor B...

    ReplyDelete
  29. Godlysoldier,

    Thanks sister for your contribution and your points are certainly on point and timely.

    Robert is a CLOWN and a spiritual apostate IF he were ever saved. he leaves the evidence for himslef. That's partially why I don't shy away from dissenting comments like many other bloggers do. The truth speaks for itself and CLOWNS such as he eventually show what they are.

    You said this: ""When witnessing, it's like throwing a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that barks the loudest is usually the one that got hit the hardest by the rock (the Word)" end of quote. SELAH!"

    AMEN and AMEN again!

    This fella is a "person" defender not a Christ apologist in any way shape or form. His "idol" and "golden calf" must be defended.

    Now, the whole point of the post is totally missed unless you put this together...this fella, "Jakes" preaches about a 5 point star totally focusing on self and interpersonal relationships, mangles the gospel account of both Matthew and Luke's account in Acts, and his supporters can't figure out what happened.

    They miss, that correlation between the 5 points of self, the relationship of that to witchcraft ie:disobedience, and idolotry. In fact 1 Sam. 15:23a says,

    "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubborness is as iniquity and idolotry..."

    This fella (and I'm sure quite unwittingly) preaches a message that is a pseudo, post Christian message and singlehandedly seduces minds to not see how that message correlates to scripture, they only see how it correlates to their personal situations...that's the seduction, that's the problem, and when people fight to preserve that what I call an "intermingled" or "familiar" spirit, that is being promoted, they either have been so seduced by flesh or they just don't care as long as their needs are being "met".

    This is much deeper than Robert would care to argue because he can't see the door to begin with, but for those with spiritual eyes and ears it can easily be seen that many of Jakes messages qualify for inclusion as "another" Gospel which the true Saint is to reject right along with the one bringing the message. (Gal.1:8-9)

    I only hope that 2009 will be a time when the TRUE Siants come out of the shadow of shallow doctrine and weak, flesh oriented ministers whoever they may be.

    Thanks Godlysoldier, Happy New Year to you also.

    ReplyDelete

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