Thursday, October 2, 2008

Clockin’ Doodle Dumb Convocation Dollas’

Special thanks to Terry, a blog entry respondent that appears here regularly, for bringing Bishop Jakes schedule information to my attention.

Well, here we go, Bishop T.D. Jakes is scheduled to preach Sunday night Nov. 9th 2008 during the 101st National Convocation of the Church Of God In Christ. Now, I know I’m not popular with some for the stances that I have taken on certain issues so I might as well add additional fuel to the fire and let this baby BURN!


Could It Be All About Da Benjamins?


Now, for all the Jakes lovers, before you get all "swolle up" and bent out of shape, I know based on those who have contacted the ministry and done pricing research that "Da Bishop" usually charges in excess of $50,000 per appearance. Similarly, I know his appearance generally brings in anywhere from $100,000 to $300,000 in general or public offerings depending upon the venue.


I’m not aware of any arrangements that he made with The Church Of God In Christ, but I can say this…based on the information I have received from other sources within the church (WHICH I NAME NONE) when they have spoken in these type of venues, they have generally received $0.00 for their appearance in Memphis. Now there may be some that have received honorariums, so don’t paint with too broad of a brush. All I can affirm is the information I have received. Additionally, IF there are any within COGIC who have received something, I am confident that they haven’t received anything close to $50,000, well maybe outside of the Presiding Bishop, but that’s not today’s topic…I’ll leave it at that for now.

In this case however, I find it hard to believe that Bishop T.D. Jakes is appearing in Memphis, TN. For free or for less than his established fee. Feel free to chime in if you know.

Aside From The Money And More Importantly:


In light of the fact that Bishop Jakes preaches false, abominable and ungodly doctrine as outlined and detailed at GCMWatch, and offers an, at best, spurious, if not down right heretical, interpretation and teaching on the origins of man…I don’t understand why the leadership in our church felt it prudent or necessary in any way to further fund Jakes apostasies and heretical doctrine. His appearance may be good for "da money", but is it good for the soul?

I HAVE PERSONALLY heard Jakes say that when God created Adam he created Eve inside of him. He said that man was created "both male and female". He went on to strongly suggest that men have a sensitivity aka femininity about themselves built into their being. This was on The Potters House broadcast Sunday Sept. 21st 2008. Not only is this a foundation for homosexual and bisexual doctrine and false teaching, it’s just plain heretical and fallacious.

Erroneous Unbiblical Doctrine

Just in case you became confused somewhere in your biblical reading regarding this point, be it known that God didn’t create a woman inside of man. He built (banah – established or made a permanent part of creation) woman (Gen. 2:22) and brought her to Adam. This occurred OUTSIDE of man using the same material substance ie; genome of man aka Adam.

Jakes’s confusion comes in when he misinterprets what Adam expresses when he begins to respond to what God had done:

Gen. 2:23 ~ "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."


The phrases "she was taken" (Laqach) "out of man" (‘Iysh) simply means that she (woman) has been received in contrast or differently or separately from a man. This terminology was descriptive of her relationship to man and the creation and not descriptive of her emotional character nature or essence.

To complete the thought, verse 24 begins "Therefore" or because of this union/relationship based on what man has received, and that God has established "shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" In other words the precedent is set for families and cross gender marital unions and relationship growth between male and female individuals.

This scripture has NOTHING to do with attributes or characteristics or the sharing of those characteristics, be they male or female. It has nothing to do with emotions, he-motions or being "sensitive". Neither does the scripture deal in any way with human emotional tendencies It has everything to do with Adam looking for his "kind", finding none before God’s intervention, and receiving what God built for him which was suitable for him and ultimately cleaving to that.

As I Close:

Since undoubtedly, this blog is read by an array of individuals, some of which are COGIC leaders, I simply would like to pose the following questions:

Question 1~ How can the church that has endorsed and promoted the tradition of holiness as espoused by the late great Bishop C. H. Mason become subject and dumb down to false teaching for money and or association's sake?

I know this is not normal because under the Former Presiding Bishop Chandler Owens, Sung Myung Moon offered the church $1 Million for the Memphis pulpit during convocation. Bishop Owens loudly, clearly and unequivocally responded by stating that the Church Of God In Christ WAS NOT a WHORE and IS NOT for sale. Thank you Bishop Owens.

Question 2~ How can we, at the end of the day silently and monetarily endorse heretical and apostate teachers preaching false doctrines?

Question 3~ Is our ability to rub elbows with "popular" individuals a motivating factor as it pertains to what we allow and disallow?

Question 4~ Can we not find ministers within the church or associated with the church that offer sound and stable biblical exegesis and promote and encourage their ministries?

Question 5~ Is anyone willing to deal with the "machine" of big religious organization and how it works?

Question 6 ~ Is the quality of our service truly more important than the quantity of funds, relationships, or associations that we receive from service?

Question 7 ~ Has anyone considered the implications of allowing the proliferation of false doctrine in our primary venue (or any other venue for that matter)? If we can’t bring false teachers such as Jakes to accountability, then we have no business teaching against any false doctrine.

Rev. 22:10-17 ~ "10-And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11-He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12-And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13-I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14-Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15-For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16-I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17-And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."


Blessed!

39 comments:

  1. Say it isn't so, Pastor! I simply cannot understand why COGIC would allow a ravenous wolf into their midst? This is a tragedy. Well, should the Lord be willing, someone will minister to Mr.Jakes, and will plant a seed of future repentance.

    Jim, Edmonton

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  2. What's Up Jim?

    Glad to see you back. Yep, we're in the thick of it again.

    I wonder, with all the excellent preachers I am aware of that offer a powerful message and live modestly, why wouldn't some of those preachers be cultivated?

    I mean I understand the "buyers opportunity" or "psychology" in getting a "big ticket" item, but when we start to run into individuals who openly and blatantly offer false doctrine...that's the horse of another color in my book.

    But I'm NOBODY. Just one who's trying to be the best husband, father and preacher I can be.

    You hope is also mine. If someone could tap into him and offr a word of direction rightly...AND he listens...That would be excellent.

    God bless.

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  3. Fagdom hath enlarged herself! But a gay will always open a door to another. Blake has just begun.

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  4. Now, to be fair and honest, I didn't mention Bishop Blake one time in this article and I have no way of knowing who chose T.D. Jakes for the Convocation, or how those decisions are handled...

    With that said there have been rumors about Bishop Jakes behavior as witnessed by a blog called Apostlrey (sp) who claims to be a minister who was in close association with T.D. within the Higher Ground organization that both were a part of.

    I can only pray that what I point out in this article and the sin of homosexuality among ministers (any ministers) are two completely different and unrelated items.

    Thanks.

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  5. Glad to be back. It's been busy a time for me.

    You bring up a good point. With some great, Bible believing preachers out there, why bring him in??? Is attracting the cash the priority here? Or,is it something more devious, as intimated by someone else. Either or, I trust a solid group of brothers in Christ will challenge the COGIC leadership and scrutinize this grave error.

    Glad you stand firm Pastor. I tell you, it's getting worse and worse out there. This one really upset me.

    Jim, Edmonton

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  6. Im with Jim. This is stunning. This almost like seeing Massachusetts be the first state to legalize gay marriage.

    I wrote about it. Other than pray, thats about all I hope to accomplish.

    Habakkuk 1:2

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  7. Hab. 1:1-4 ~ "1-The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see. 2-O LORD, how long shall I cry, and thou wilt not hear! even cry out unto thee of violence, and thou wilt not save! 3-Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention. 4-Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth."

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  8. Bishop G.E Patterson, who was one of the last"men" who held to the tradtional standards of the COGIC, Most of the men on the Board of Bishops are too old to continue the work as the Presiding Prelate..sad to say that Bishop Blake, has opened the door to a major split..This 20th century church is being governed by the flesh(man) without the Holy Ghost..!

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  9. Elder,

    That was deep my friend! God help us. We need it.

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  10. I think by reading this that we need to prepare ourself for the future that will come. Those that claim to be of God but have'nt the Spirit of God,as my brother says, the Holy Ghost to lead them.

    I guess it's his Tenth:)
    50,000

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  11. "Fagdom"? It's no wonder the poster chose to be anonymous. That comment is not Christ-like either. Sheesh!

    The issue is serious. T.D. Jakes preached at my own denom several years ago and garnered many thousands of dollars for doing so. Now they are asking for individual pledges from the general membership to make improvements to the headquarters site. Hmmmm. That fee may have well paid for all that is needed. Pimping the people and greasing the palms of the preacher. What a hustle.

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  12. St James I have to agree with you. anony can all the "fag" related invectives. Its just not necessary to support what we obviously see. Paying somebody a king's ransom to preach the gospel is just about as bad as selling the Saviour out for 30 peices of silver.

    COGIC, this is a waste of the money entrusted to you to do right by.

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  13. gcmwatch,

    I agree with what you said, especially since they always asking for more and more money. Do somethin right with what they gettin first.

    COGIC Elder

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  14. Wow!

    I've been gone for a few days and look at all the activity. I'll be gone off and on all week into next also. but let em say that "fagdom" is a rather unique term. I feel no wore about it than a homosexual calling me "homophobic" I don't hate men and certainly don't have a fear of any. So if we want to judge things on offensive language, I believe that's a good target to hit.

    i notice that most of the vocal gays rail on the term "homophobic" to describe those of us who don't agree with homosexuality that's a mind game and in my opinion stupid...

    So far as COGIC Elder what can I say. It's always about more money more money. I heard when the accounting is asked for however, that convo is alsways shut down, and I've got RELIABLE sources to back me up on this one.

    God Bless, I'll me back in a few days.

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  15. Elder Burnett,

    Not seeing the name calling as a problem is what creates an atmoshere in the church that is not condusive to ministry. Calling names from the pulpit or behind closed doors does not reflect a heart that wants to help people find freedom from sin and deliverance in Christ. Why not stick to what the word has to say about the sin? When Christians resort to name calling, fag, dyke, punk, sissy, bull dagger, cracker, spic, nigger, etc. We do not model the hear of GOD as reveled in Christ. Don't get me wrong; I am not saying strong or confrontational language is never appropriate but we must be careful not to model hate-speech.

    Homophobic is mis applied many , many times. It is not the same as the word faggot. Let us not return evil for evil; Turn the other cheek. Blessings

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  16. Sorry,

    I meant to say the "heart of GOD as revealed" in Christ.

    Peace

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  17. Saint James- "Not seeing the name calling as a problem is what creates an atmoshere in the church that is not condusive to ministry.

    As i said earlier, i don't think the name "Fagdom" is any wore than "Homophobic". In fact, homophobic carries a connotation of mental imbalance and mental illness.

    Now I understand the greater point about alienation, discrimination and classism, etc, and also understand the negative useage of the word "fags" etc...but to call me one with a mental illness just because I believe in loving a woman...That's the mental illness in my book...

    Saint James- "We do not model the hear(t) of GOD as reveled in Christ. Don't get me wrong; I am not saying strong or confrontational language is never appropriate but we must be careful not to model hate-speech.

    Jesus not only used strong language he used what the Pharasees considered to be hate speech. Calling religious men "vipors" etc because they disagreed with him and the his teaching when he had matriculated at none of their schools was in their opinion "hateful"

    I believe I understand your greater point and the blogger wasn't the topic of this blog, only that if we really want to model Christ, we must be challenged at more than meets the eye. I think the main problem here seems to be "slang" useage of certain words to indicate a group of people.

    Anyway, Thanks. I'm interested in hearing others on this also.

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  18. Beckrl,

    I haven't forgot about you either and our convo. You made and raised some good points and I'm still thinking a few things through. I'll get back with you by email.

    Good one about the Tithe...I guess that's what that is-LOL

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  19. Please everyone know that spelling or typing wasn't my strong point and I've noticed quite a few errors in my responses...don't hold it against me please.

    To backtrack somewhat on what I said regarding the Pharisees and Jesus,

    If we examine the relationship and what Jesus actually said and how they would have interpreted what Jesus said according to the evidence of scripture, we don't see a 'seeker sensitive" Jesus. We have a Jesus that hits the elite, especially the religious elite and pious HARD and unapologetically.

    To call a Pious Pharisee a "viper" was calling him a DEVIL from hell and the originator of sin. They refrenced the account of the Serpent in the Garden right away with Jesus refrence and that was no light or laughing matter with them and their understanding of Torah.

    If we look up the word Faggot on wickipedia, you have a word that has changed in it's connotation over the years and is currently a slang word for homosexual.

    How about we do this, just go back to calling homosexuals what we find in the Bible...Sodomites and Sons Of Belial? we'll see how offensive and hateful that becomes.

    That's a good topic though and one I may look into a greater post. Here's the Wickipedia link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

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  20. Elder Burnett, you are making my point. I agree that we should use biblical language to describe sin. Jesus spoke from an absolute place of Holiness. His language may have been considered hate speech by the religious hypocrites of his day; that didn't make it so.
    Can we always say we are assigning names to people from a holy place? I think it is more often our self righteousness that seeds the names we call people.
    How many of us would be willing to call our fat mothers, grandmothers, pastors, fathers, our ourselves pigs? A slang for a fat person. Gluttony being a sin.
    We must be careful to use language that is not rooted in cultural bias. What the bible says is right. Though I doubt that sodomite would be appropriate for someone is is not from Sodom. HA!
    I am reminded of the interaction that Jesus had with the woman who was caught in the very act of adultery. I wonder why he didn't call her a "ho", slang for a whore? He gave her the truth. He called what she did a sin and commanded that she cease her behavior; Repent. No compromise but no heaping of invecitives on her either. In fact his actions deterred others from doing the same and worse to her.
    Jesus' most harsh words were for religious hypocrites who were keeping the people away from GOD with false views of him and multiplied laws and traditions He didn't intend. I'm all for that.
    Using a word steeped in bigotry and hate that has kept more homosexuals away from GOD than will ever draw them is not wise.
    I would rather measure my actions as a man of GOD by what Christ has commanded and modeled than measure it by my opponents' behavior. Christ is the measure.

    I realize my tangent is not directly related to the post. I will not continue with my little tirade. I will end with this: NIGGER is a slang word for African American. That word has also changed in connotation over the years. Now our children (generationally so) are using it to describe each other.

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  21. Saint James,

    I don't consider you addressing the issue a "tirade" and certainly nothing negative, so we good. i think this is interesting especially since anonymous brought up the subject. So you are more than welcome to expound on this or any other matter...you're heart and motives show through wonderfully.

    Now, so far as language is concerned, I believe that we do have a biblical mandate to let our words be seasoned with grace, and do all things in love, and unity of the spirit. And we know that words can excite, motivate, anger or bring peace. I believe that's the point. We don't want to be an antagonist and just becuse someone IS something does that mean we say it?

    {I'm kinda thinking this through as I write}

    Now, I don't try to rationalize the use of the word, I only say (although I never use it) that a homosexual cannot dictate what i should call them in their sin while at the same time placing a patently false label on me or you.

    To say that we have a mental illness is inaccurate. To say that they are a "fag" based on etymology of the word is accurate.

    I took what the commentator as saying that the "kingdom of "fags"" had been increased. This sounded like a metaphorical statement because there is literally no "kingdom" of gay people, so I really didn't give it much until you chimed in on it. but thinking it through, the difference between "fag" and "Fat pig" (as per your example) is that "fat pig" has no resemblance of truth. in other words, a person is not a "pig" no matter how fat I, i mean we are(LOL).

    Now so far as nigger is concerned, the word has it's roots in color description noir-french etc. but from what I understand indicates one who is worthless or unuseful to society and is not necessarily limited to color description.

    So to call me a nigger because I'm black is inaccurate based on what the word describes.

    So although I don't use the word, i'm hard pressed to find any reasons other than social and politically correct reasons to restrict another's right to use the word IF it accurately describes the situation.

    Some people don't like the names that come along with their sin but they love the sin. I won't facilitate their sinfulness by painting an inaccurate picture of it or by discouraging others who do so.

    So Saint James you did good and I ain't got nothing but love 4 ya!

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  22. Thanks for the exchange. Blessings, Multiplied and Varied.

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  23. EXCELLENT PASTOR BURNETT, EXCELLENT....THIS WAS A LESSON FOR ME!
    Having just come out from the false WOF teaching, I too was under the false impression
    that he "wo"man came "out" of man. I just love how God is continually enlightening the eyes
    of my understanding. I am going to study all that you've said in this blog for myself to confirm.
    I'm fighting tooth and nail NOT to attend Jakes church as we just moved to Texas this year.
    It's about a 40 min drive from my house...I'm praying that my husband will not "fall for the hype"
    any longer. PLEASE STAND IN AGREEMENT WITH ME! We are still searching for a SOUND
    church in the North Texas area. I live in Mckinney, Texas.

    Again THANK YOU for this post, and continue to speak out against the wolves that are
    raveging the church today!

    Sister Pat

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  24. Can someone help Sister Pat out for me. I am not aware of the topography of Texas but I know there are some fine churches there for her and her family to attend.

    Please feel free to give your churches name and address and make yourself the contact person if you don't mind.

    God bless.

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  25. Ooh, by the way. i refrenced what the bible said about sodomites.

    Please know that this word was NOT only a refrence for one from Sodom. It was a refrence for one who was unclean and defiled, so location had nothing to do with who God called a Sodomite.

    A good article regarding this can be found at: http://www.keyway.ca/htm2006/20060521.htm

    In the translation Sodomite was a word used to describe the condition of certain individuals as it relates to sin. So when God said Sodomite it wasn't a politically correct title or gloss over. It was hard hitting and to the point.

    I hope noone has read this exchange and felt that I am insensitive. That's not the case. This sin is an abomination and pretty words only dress sin up to make it more palatable.

    We also worry about saying something to "draw" the sinner out and not have them reject the church. i say that if we were doing the job and not equivocating on sin, sinners would be convicted and this would allow the Holy Ghost do his job.

    We didn't drive them away in the first place ONLY The Lord can draw them to the place they need to be. The church should further always be reminded that Godly correction and truth will ALWAYS be considered to be "hate speech" by the world and them that love their sins.

    Blessed.

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  26. Interesting exchange here Supt. I know that you were not defending gratuitous name calling. And the point has been well made and agreed that using the bible's tough language is completely appropriate as long as it is in context. For instance one could not utter the phase "I will kick your a**" and use as justification that the word ass is used in the bible. Not in that context. We dealt with that on my blog ,here and here

    I guess the bottom line question is(etemology aside): Is there ever any biblical justification for a saint calling a homosexual "a faggot" or "a dyke"? I would think not simply because it is intended to be a pejorative term at the least and punitive at best. If our redemptive lens are on, this does not lend itself to any form of redemption in the biblical sense. Do Christians say it sometimes? Yes. I wouldnt necessarily freak out if I heard someone say it, but if they had a pattern of using such invectives and I sensed it was from a disdain in their heart, I would definitely challenge them.

    The comment to anonymous at least on my part was cursory reminder that we can discuss this is maturely as we need to without using those terms.

    Also I dont think that just by not using those words someone is going to repent. That's naive. People repent when the Word of God convicts their hearts and they see their need for the Savior. The world wants to "clean up" negative language but their hearts are still blackened. So what good does that do?

    At any rate,thanks for allowing this discussion, it certainly is one that is needed.

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  27. gcmwatch,

    Thank you my brother for your insightfulness. Both you and Saint james have been very helpful in this regard and I do think this is something that the people of God should discuss.

    Great comments.

    blessed

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  28. Yes, Elder Burnett, the words Sodomite, Sodomy and Sodomize took that meaning because of the infamous behavior of "those" from Sodom. That was always clear to me. I was trying to inject a liitle levity; hence the word, "HA!" I guess I failed, oops.
    Take it from me. I was called those names for years by people who mistook my shyness and fear of men and "manly" things ( a result of sexual abuse and exploitaion by men "Saved" and otherwise.) I also endure horrific verbal abuse from my step-father: "Little faggot, go out sied and play ball or something!"

    I wanted to go to the church elders for help. I made the decsion to do so. The night I planned on it the preacher called "Soft spoken" boys Faggots and Sissies. This was in a revival meeting. Oh!, the hollering and screaming that went on after that beautiful comment of grace! The saints rejoiced. Someone was telling the truth! Hmmm I felt numb and full of shame. In school, yes, okay, in the nneighborhood, okay but in the church? WhY? Let me tell you, I was not an effeminate kid. I had a high pitched voice and preferred singing and the arts to b-ball and other sports. I felt more comfortable around the ladies because they didn't want to rape me or use me like a piece of trash.
    It took me years before I could finallly tell what happened and get free from years of shame and secrecy. If the one time I mentioned with the revivalist ( I was reared as Holiness/Pentecostal) was the only time I heard similar language from preachers I would be silent and not speak (I think). I have been an ordained elder in the United Holy Church of America since 1983. I have heard faggot and worse from pulpits, in church meetings, retreats, elders meetings, etc. It is a horrible thing (in my estimation).
    No, refraining from speech that is harmful does not cause those to repent. I believe the LORD will draw to Himself whomever He wills despite what we do. He is Sovereign. I agree with GCMW. I will ask about the harm heaped upon those who have been bruised by sin and sinning? I am not talking about heretics or False church leaders. I am talking about those for whom Christ died. I would love to see us practice a balance between the love of GOD and the Judgement of GOD. The abundance of the heart is revealed in our speech. I saw it and felt it. One Bishop came to me and told me when I shared my testimony of freddom from shame and the tyranny of that word from the saints that he was also set free from his own abuse experience by another man at age 14. Ministry must come after preaching. If the gospel (TRUTH) in my preaching offends. AMEN. If my own stuff gets in the way or portrays GOD in a way that does not represent how HE feels I have done something wrong. That's my beleif. I have to serve an dminister to those from a heart absent of a bias for their sin against my own.
    I thank you for the opportunity to share again. I enjoy the transitions in your blogsite. The new look is exciting. I visit frequently.
    If you'd like to read my story in more detail: http://oldtimesaints.blogspot.com. The site is called "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COMMUNION JUICE" The blog is: Why I Hate the Word FAGGOT and Why You Should Too!
    Blessings, Varied and Multiplied in Jesus' name to you.

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  29. Saint James,

    Man THANKS for sharing that. I appreciate the candidness of the statement and the knowledge.

    God bless and please continue to share. That was powerful!

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  30. I am now watching T.D.at the C.O.G.I.C.convocation,this man is not anointed.He babbled on for over an hour saying hardly anything to make a valid point and the people can't discern anything.Brother let's continue to pray for Bishop Blake and C.O.G.I.C. we are in a spiritual decline our only hope is miraculous divine intervention by our LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

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  31. I missed it...mannnn! I wonder what was his topic?

    Anonymous said:"we are in a spiritual decline our only hope is miraculous divine intervention by our LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST."

    I am one prayin' for real about all of this. I like the word "intervention" that's it!

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  32. Although I agree on a biblical basis, I believe that instead of gay-bashing, as its called, these people need to be loved into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and out of the darkness of their sinful lifestyle. And as far as Bro. Jakes is concerned, right or not, he is still God's anointed and the Bible instructs us not to touch God's anointed one. Even after Saul messed up royally, David refused to lay a hand on him, because he was God's anointed. We should be praying for these brothers and sisters that have strayed from the original vision instead of trashing them. We should take a "but for the grace of God..." stance. How do we know that we won't fall into something that is much worse than what they have done? Paul said, "beware when you think you stand, lest you fall." God bless.

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  33. Ruth,

    Thanks for your comments and they are appreciated but there are some things in your understanding of how to deal with these sort of issues that should be challenged.

    I'll begin with last things 1st. You said"How do we know that we won't fall into something that is much worse than what they have done?"

    Biblical correction does have a consideration of "considering thyself" but not from the standpoint of, "it could happen to you too so don't be quick to say anything"...the biblical standpoint is from this, "say what needs to be said because if you were overtaken with a fault, you would want and need someone to assit you also"

    The verse is Gal. 6:1~"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

    Now th word "fault" rendered in this verse is a Gk word "Paraptoma" which technically is never rendered to indicate sin. Sin is rendered as the Gk word "hamartia" in the New Testament.

    So the treatment of the verse is not to gently heal sin, but to gently help individuals who affirm the truth, but who have faulted lifestyles or doings that need correction. This is the difference and it make ALL the difference.

    So our correction is not based on the thought that we may sin or have sinned also. If that were the case NOONE on earth could fulfill the mission of scripture and noone should even preach a gospel message.

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  34. Ruth,

    Secondly, gays are not "bashed" because truth and biblical standards and morals are upheld. Alchoholics aren't "bashed" when we preach against alchoholism etc...The mindset that speaking the truth to sin is somehow a "bash" reduces god's word to merely "suggestions" and wisdom sayings when the truth is the word is the "light" by which we live:

    Job 23:12~Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food."

    So if god's word has preeminence and we are to live by that word and the word condemns lifestyles calling them abominations and sins and affirming that people who engage in those lifestyles are going to hell...to NOT preach to someone is the epitome of self worship. Why? because self does not want to be uncomfortable in telling the truth. Self only loves it when everyone smiles...that's NOT the ministry of Christ or the Holy ghost in the world today.

    We are to preach and stand for truth:

    Is. 58:1~"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."

    The mission of the minister is to point to truth clearly and plainly. So from that perspective it is inapporpriate for you to consider teaching and preaching of biblical truth and moral standards as "bashing"

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  35. Ruth,

    Finally, so far as the bishop and "God's anointed" are concerned, your application of that scripture in this case is flawed. The man of God DOES NOT have a separate section of heaven to go to and is held more accountable for what he teaches in the name of the Lord.

    Part of the confusion here is that Saul was a King not a Priest or Prophet, and the governing of the nation biblically was different in Old Testament times.

    If you want to see a better pattern we need to look at the New testament to establish how the NT church dealt with hereitical teaching and teachers.

    2 Tim. 3 gives a laundy list of persons whose actions were not desirable and that should not be enduldged. He concludes in verse 4 by saying "but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

    In other words the action of the saint was to turn away from heretics and those who hold to sin even though they know the truth.

    In other cases Paul rebukes men and women for doing and continuing to do evil no matter what their vocation. I pont that out in my post The Role Of The Church & Ministers In Crucial Times

    In other words Jakes is not anointed because we perceive him to be or because of what he does or has amassed in ministry. Those are the wrong standards. In NT worship "the anointed" are those in relationship, fellowship and who seek and humble themselves to do and say the biblically correct things. when they are wrong they are open to correction. Jakes is not open to that correction and asserts biblical apostasy similar to many of these mega-preachers. Nothing against "mega" but everything against false doctrine.

    So "anointing" is not some mystical montra that is for a few exclusive individuals. It is for ALL of God's children and we are all to have a standard of accountability.

    I take the time to address you this way because I appreciate the way you come at the subject and I feel you have a humble temperment. So thank you for that and feel free to engage further on this or any other issues or posts. Welcome.

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  36. well said Pastor Burnett....that all I can say...well said!

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  37. (Pastor Burnett this is Minister Brandon from Childress Memmorial COGIC Im using brdavision as my name now)I was rebuked sunday by Bishop Iglehart for pointing out one of Pastor T.D. Jakes many bible lies that he has spoken over the years. I was told that I was not of the position and out of order to point out or question Jakes because I am nothing but a minister.

    You being in COGIC as well how should I go about handling this? I love the COGIC but I Love God more and I will always speak the truth no matter what.

    I'm gonna quote you "The mission of the minister is to point to truth clearly and plainly." and I believe that 100%

    I am trying to do this but it looks like if I continue on this path. I will never become and elder or pastor a church in this area of COGIC.

    not that those things mean that much to me but basically I was told to shut up and learn or speak and go find another church.....I really need your help sir.....

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  38. Minister Brandon,

    I believe what you are dealing with are sentiments that occurs even outside of COGIC. I mean many people endorse the things that TD says although too many have an affinity for all that he says and receive it without question or critical thinking. It would seem that your leadership values Jakes exposition and is unresponsive to enlightenment.

    There are at least 2 issues here.

    1- What you have with leadership is this, a sense that a younger person is somehow "overstepping their bounds" when they become vocal on certain issues. Now, some of that you should take as an opportunity to show your strength, looking for ways to make you a better leader in the future. In short, simply let some of it roll off your back, continue to teach and develop your understanding of what you teach and go on.

    Then you have to pick the battle that is worthy of fighting. If and erroneous teaching is not something that is a part of the "direction" or "purpose" of the church, then don't let the fact that some of the leaders like what he says become so important to you. When the leader starts directing his ministry based on Jakes or anyone eles's erroneous teaching, then you have another consideration altogether.

    2- What God is going to do through you, he'll do it whether they acknowledge you or not. You don't need their endorsement to grow in ministry, but you do need accountability, endurance and perseverance. If it is that you can receive those things from this group of Saints then you'll have to weigh the cost of staying against the cost of leaving...Where will you go and to whom will you be accountable to?

    Remember silence, in this case represents peace, not endorsement, and God said that the peacemaker was blessed and would be called a "child of GOd". (Mt.5:9) You've made your position known and it doesn't have to change simply because they know where you stand but you can also respect their positions and opinions.

    So what do you do? Pray and seek GOd, but don't be a "lone ranger" especially nowdays. You need association, fellowship and accountability and believe me disagreeing over what Jakes or someone teaches is nothing to leave truly good people over.

    Remember the minister has to demonstrate temperance in all things. This is one of those things that you stand on and for, prepare yourself like crazy, and if they don't want you, let them disfellowship you and make them give you the reason...what will they say, "this minister didn't agree with what this other preacher was teaching."??? What is that? They will embarrass themselves to loose good people over some garbage like that.

    Remember, the same God that is requiring you to restrain yourself and act godly is also requiring the same of them. It may seem like a one way trip right now, but I've lived long enough to see the critics either recant, fall into deep error or become utterly let down by their idols.

    Remember, no need to run fast, we are ALL ministers no matter the title in fact Jesus said let the greatest among you be the "minister" (Mt. 20:26) and these titles that we use to categorize people who have passed our natural tests mean absolutely nothing if GOd hasn't instituted it. I know some Bishops that have no place close to the word that I have (not to sound self-exalted)but they occupy the Bishop's office. A "higher" office means nothing when it comes to anointing, position and place with God. It merely means more accountability, both to GOd and men. I wish some with the titles could truly understand that.

    Hope that helps.

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  39. This truly does help and I now can see it a better light what my Bishop was trying to tell me. My bishop is a good pastor. And he did condemn jakes lies. I see that He wanted me to understand there is a time and place for everything. And at this time it not my place. I thank you so much Pastor Burnett your writing as been a blessing to me and I do visit here everyday.....keep preaching the truth! God Bless!

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