tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post3317788359598051687..comments2024-03-27T11:13:34.520-05:00Comments on The Dunamis Word: Salvation: Is The Message Revealed To Those Who Have Never Heard?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-31155870316119800482009-08-10T15:33:22.418-05:002009-08-10T15:33:22.418-05:00Havery, thanks for listing all we learned from you...Havery, thanks for listing all we learned from your teaching. I know I am now better equipped to give an answer to the question of those that have not heard.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-90037681625988239322009-08-10T15:28:20.587-05:002009-08-10T15:28:20.587-05:00Nightmare said "My thanks for the reference. ...Nightmare said <i>"My thanks for the reference. You will note however that this vessel "had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water."</i><br /><br />Sigh...<br />The guy asks on his site of the ark "would an ark of that size even be sea worthy?" I showed you a wooden ship of that size that was sea worthy, and instead of humbly agreeing it was possible, or in the least, ignoring it, you try to create a new argument because THAT ship took on water during it's 15 years in service.<br /><br /><i>"he was talking to and about the generation alive at that time - the text is clear on that point, regardless how much people try to wiggle around and get out of it."</i><br /><br />Sounds like you did some checking and saw that it wasn't just me that can read the words on the page as referring to the generation that sees all those signs. I'm glad you know this isn't just my interpretation.<br /><br /><i>34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."- is clearly referring to the entire sequence of events the in the chapter til that point.</i><br /><br />Yes, it is clearly referring to those events, ALL those events as stated by Jesus twice. Did ANY of those events happen in their lifetime? No. They were not the generation He was referring to that would see ALL those events. I don't know how I can say the same thing in any different way. <br /><br />The fact of the matter is, you don't believe the Bible, but you do believe where you perceive it to be wrong, and when it's pointed out that the only thing wrong is some non-believer's site where his interpretation of what Jesus was saying wasn't looking at the verses as a whole, you still believe it's wrong because you WANT to believe it's wrong. At least take responsibility for that!<br /><br /><i>"But then you are merely throwing up your hands and quitting because the road is more difficult than what you thought."</i><br /><br />I take no responsibility for your closed heart and mind. <br /><br />When you get to Heaven, Jesus isn't going to ask you about Laura or Harvey, He's going to ask you about you.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-78020049916632940752009-08-10T11:12:08.107-05:002009-08-10T11:12:08.107-05:00So far as the preterist argument with the words &q...So far as the preterist argument with the words "this generation" in Matt. 24, this can be reconciled any number of ways which includes that Jesus was talking about the generation of the church or the church age. <br /><br />As reference to this Psalms is full of references using the word "generation" that encompass all time and all of humanity. For example:<br /><br />Ps. 14:5 states that "God is in the generation of the righteous" this isn't confined to one time frame or set of reference. The "generation of the righteous" is all of them that call upon him for all time. <br /> <br />Ps. 102:18 saying theat the word would be written for the "generation to come and for the people which shall be created shall parise the Lord." Does one confine that the word written would only be for the next set of people that were to live? That would be an absurd understanding. <br /><br />Ps. 112:2 references the seed of them that fear the Lord and delight in his commandments. It says that the "generation of the upright shall be blessed". Once again this reference isn't limiteed to a time frame of individuals. It would cover all men and those that would fear the Lord and honor him by walking uprightly also. <br /><br />My personal favorite is <b>Ps. 24:6</b> ~ <i>"This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face O Jacob. Selah"</i><br /><br />Once again this is a reference to me and my generation also. So ther references to "this generation" aren't problematic unless you're expecting all of the events in one time frame or period and I believe there is ample scriptural evidence to do away with that theory.<br /><br />On the other hand, Jesus describes himself as "coming on the clouds" with "great glory". That was a reference to the office of the messiah which he fulfilled and the authority that he had (Dan. 7:14) So that was fulfilled for those that were there as well all of humanity in the last day or the day of judgement. <br /><br />So there's really no problem to be uncovered or discovered in this scripture.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-61835221317977224542009-08-10T09:22:34.937-05:002009-08-10T09:22:34.937-05:00Nightmare said:Regardless however it appears this ...Nightmare said:<i>Regardless however it appears this discussion is done - and the original point unanswered, more's the pity. Adieu</i><br /><br />The discussion regarding the original post may be done but it was answered. We discovered that<br /><br />1- Noone will be saved without the acceptance of Jesus<br />2- Hearing the message involves more than simply being preached to. Using Paul as an example, he was "preached to" as he examined the Christian religion even though he wasn't sympathetic to it. <br />3- God has "many sheep" that are his responsibility to draw.<br />4- Everyone will be held accountable for their response or lack thereof to what is evident both through creation and the light of conscience.<br />5- Problems such as this are highly overstated by critics assuming that because 1/3rd of the world is Christians that only 1/3rd have heard the message. When the truth is that over 80% of the world have heard the message in many cases twisting it or flat out rejecting it to meet their needs.<br />6- Those who died prior to the appearance of Jesus in the world we secured in the place called Abraham's bosom" which was delivered at Jesus death and resurrection.<br />7-There were those from non-Jewish nations who died in believing relationship to God and were also accepted with God.<br /><br />Those things were answered in this thread so we're not destitute for answeres they abound...<br /><br />You also said:<i>Furthermore, the ICR itself is a highly questionable source</i><br /><br />I don't have too much security in Wiki references because sources aren't secure and they may not be credible. I think so far as ICR you've committed the genetic fallacy with the critique as their information is scientifically viable although they are creationist fundamentalists...That's an acceptable position expecially in light of the wealth of information they set forth on the glogbal flood, much of which is confirmed by secular scientific research. So there's no problems with our references but Wiki's are highly suspect.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-34379834943501496792009-08-10T01:19:39.074-05:002009-08-10T01:19:39.074-05:00Laura said:
Do you believe the Bible or don't ...Laura said:<br /><i>Do you believe the Bible or don't you?</i><br /><br />Do you believe in the Koran? Or the Iliad? Or the Hindu scriptures? Do you not see that asking an unbeliever if they believe in the holy text of a religion is essentially asking them if they are an unbeliever? If one believes in the bible, one if most likely already a Christian of some sort - the two go hand in hand.<br /><br /><i>He's not going to say "Oh, well, Nightmare had good reason." No, in God's economy, you are either with Him or against Him by your own choice.</i><br /><br />If one is mistaken on something, how can a choice made on a mistaken premise truly be considered one's own choice? What you have said here is that your god is neither just nor loving, he only cares about obedience. That is the mark of a tyrant Laura.<br /><br /><i>So when you say that His Word means nothing to you, I have to ask myself - why bother? Nothing personal. If the Very Words of your Creator have no significance in your life, anything I say is just a waste of breath.</i><br /><br />If that is how you wish to see it. But then you are merely throwing up your hands and quitting because the road is more difficult than what you thought. The path is clear - prove your claim that the bible is "Very Words of your Creator". Or not, as you please.<br /><br />"Largest Wooden Ships (Wyoming, 450 ft):<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world's_largest_wooden_ships"<br /><br />My thanks for the reference. You will note however that this vessel "had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)<br /><br />Which is concurrent with what is noted in the talkorigens article save for the minor error on the length of modern wooden vessels - "The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and <b>leak so badly they must be constantly pumped.</b>"<br /><br />Regardless however it appears this discussion is done - and the original point unanswered, more's the pity. Adieu.Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-82242132121093757632009-08-10T01:17:08.146-05:002009-08-10T01:17:08.146-05:00Laura said...
Nightmare said "Conversation is...Laura said...<br /><i>Nightmare said "Conversation is not the same as war, sorry."<br /><br /> You know better. I'm believing you when you gave your testimony here as to your salvation experience and Bible knowledge, otherwise I would spend a lot more time explaining my posts to make myself clear.</i><br /><br />My spologies, you are indeed correct - to the cunning warrior all things are weapons and all tactics valid. I was speaking for the mindset of my heritage, not the lessons history has taught us. Thank you for reminding me of this.<br /><br /><i>Nightmare, I don't know how I can make this any clearer than the words on the page. So let's look at the scripture again:.....<br /><br />(Matthew 24:32-37)<br /><br />I hope that's clear now.</i><br /><br />Why are you totally disregarding verses 29-35 and indeed the entire context of the chapter? The verse in question -<br /><br />34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until <b>all these things have happened.</b><br /><br />- is clearly referring to the entire sequence of events the in the chapter til that point.<br /><br /><i>Not one of the signs happened in the 1st century. I believe we will see them all in our lifetime, because I believe we ARE that genereation.</i><br /><br />That is not what the text states. If the bible is correct, he was talking to and about the generation alive at that time - the text is clear on that point, regardless how much people try to wiggle around and get out of it.<br /><br /><i>You want to argue the Bible, but the Bible means nothing to you? If it TRULY meant nothing to you, you wouldn't be here pointing at scripture and accusing Jesus of being a false prophet.</i> <br /><br />One can point out the flaws and contradictions in something without believing in that thing. Have not you attempted to do just that in regards to the flood material?<br /><br /><i>You would have no interest in this conversation what-so-ever because there was no part of God in you. I know, because my father's new bride is an agnostic if you pin her down, and thinks that any talk such as this is a waste of breath.</i><br /><br />So...let me try to understand...I have some part of your god in me because I'm having a conversation about such? What does that say about all the atheists and scoffers you mentioned?<br /><br /><i>You either want to know the Truth, or you don't. And before you say you've heard this before, THINK for second - what is your motivation?</i><br /><br />I want the truth to be known, but what you don't seem to understand is that it is my contention that neither of us know the entirety of the truth. Thusly, we are here talking about your truth, and I am pointing out the problems in such. You obviously see this as me rejecting The Truth (really only your truth), but I see this as part of the winnowing process to carve away the chaff and get to the truth.<br /><br />For the truth indeed does set one free, and freedom is a necessary component to achieving what I truly want, which is fun. In truth I find this process of ferreting out the truth via continual questioning to be fun at times as well, but it in itself is not the main goal.<br /><br />In short, you believe you have the truth. I believe neither of us has the whole truth. Thus the search goes on.<br /><br />Continued.....Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-29134056082689748102009-08-10T00:23:40.118-05:002009-08-10T00:23:40.118-05:00District Supt. Harvey Burnett said...
That's n...District Supt. Harvey Burnett said...<br /><i>That's not a problem. I think that we should know the opposing arguments and IF we have the truth it's not a threat to review contrary material. If anything it'll teach us how to better understand what we believe...at least that's what I find.</i><br /><br />I heartily agree, thus my continual flirtation with religious discussion (even though my heart isn't in it as much as a few years ago). If there is truth, it will come out regardless of personal opinion.<br /><br /><i>That can be found here at .Institute For Creation Research. Very good material.</i><br /><br />I ponder what your definition of good is, sorry. None of this truly answers the points I second handedly brought up in such a way as to dismiss proven scientific theory.<br /><br />Furthermore, the ICR itself is a highly questionable source.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Creation_Research#Controversy_and_criticismNightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-63799051082077295722009-08-09T22:33:13.365-05:002009-08-09T22:33:13.365-05:00The stars fell out of the sky in the 1st century?
...<i>The stars fell out of the sky in the 1st century?</i><br /><br />Not one of the signs happened in the 1st century. I believe we will see them all in our lifetime, because I believe we ARE that genereation.<br /><br />Nightmare said <i>"This is clearly a "second coming" passage (as is the Mark version, the original, which is far more clear on the matter). Howso do you equate the transfiguration to the second coming?"</i><br /><br />Mark 9 is even clearer the passage is speaking of His transfiguration. At the end of Mark 8, we have the "take up your Cross passage". Then, starting with the first verse in Mark 9:<br /><br />1 "And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”<br /><br />2 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. <br /><br />Largest Wooden Ships (Wyoming, 450 ft):<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world's_largest_wooden_ships<br /><br /><br />Hi Harvey. Sorry to stray off topic. I had it in my head I was doing it for a reason, but I was wrong.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-63276637189028659462009-08-09T22:12:58.943-05:002009-08-09T22:12:58.943-05:00Nightmare, I don't know how I can make this an...Nightmare, I don't know how I can make this any clearer than the words on the page. So let's look at the scripture again:<br /><br /><b>"Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see <i>all these things,</i> know that he is near, at the gates.</b> <br /><br />Amen, I say to you, <b>this generation <i>(the generation that sees ALL these things)</i> will not pass away until <i>all</i> these things have taken place.</b> Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. No one knows of that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.<br />(Matthew 24:32-37)<br /><br />I hope that's clear now.<br /><br />Nightmare said <i>"Before we start in this, I should make something very clear - the bible means nothing to me."</i><br /><br />You want to argue the Bible, but the Bible means nothing to you? If it TRULY meant nothing to you, you wouldn't be here pointing at scripture and accusing Jesus of being a false prophet. You would have no interest in this conversation what-so-ever because there was no part of God in you. I know, because my father's new bride is an agnostic if you pin her down, and thinks that any talk such as this is a waste of breath.<br /><br />You either want to know the Truth, or you don't. And before you say you've heard this before, THINK for second - what is your motivation?<br /><br />I told you about my experience on that religious site, and when it came down to it, there was only ONE question to ask...Do you believe the Bible or don't you?<br /><br />You don't need an excuse to push God away with both hands. He's not going to say "Oh, well, Nightmare had good reason." No, in God's economy, you are either with Him or against Him by your own choice.<br /><br />So when you say that His Word means nothing to you, I have to ask myself - why bother? Nothing personal. If the Very Words of your Creator have no significance in your life, anything I say is just a waste of breath.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-4459879180968010192009-08-09T21:19:59.017-05:002009-08-09T21:19:59.017-05:00I'm a warrior for Christ.
Nightmare said &quo...<i>I'm a warrior for Christ.</i><br /><br />Nightmare said <i>"Conversation is not the same as war, sorry."</i><br /><br />You know better. I'm believing you when you gave your testimony here as to your salvation experience and Bible knowledge, otherwise I would spend a lot more time explaining my posts to make myself clear.<br /><br />2 Corinthians 10:1-5<br />"By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you — I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. <br /><br />"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. <br /><br />"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-87608874058608979002009-08-09T16:59:12.197-05:002009-08-09T16:59:12.197-05:00Here's another that addresses the animal issue...Here's another that addresses the animal issue in the Ark to some extent. Ehrman, said this was a contridiction in his book and he's a quack as Hank points out. This may be helpful:<br /><a href="http://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_outs/was-noah-confused-on-how-many-pairs-of-animals-to-take-on-the-ark-" rel="nofollow">How Many Pairs Of Animals?</a>District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-362346217159219842009-08-09T16:45:02.983-05:002009-08-09T16:45:02.983-05:00Now, we've kinda strayed off topic and I see h...Now, we've kinda strayed off topic and I see how. I may open a biblical topics thread so that anything can be discussed and set forth...<br /><br />But, while we're here and I'm really getting back to reading, we're talkign about Noah's Ark. Since there's articles and links being passed here's a good one to get going on the flood itself:<br /><br /><i>"One can understand why atheistic and pantheistic evolutionists have to interpret Earth history in terms of great ages and evolution, rather than Creation and the Flood. They really have no other choice, once they have decided to reject the God of Creation and His record in the Bible. However, it is very difficult to understand why men and women who do believe in God and His word do this. The Bible is explicitly clear on the global Deluge, and sound scientific evidence supports it."</i><br /><br />That can be found here at .<a href="http://www.icr.org/article/why-christians-should-believe-global-flood/" rel="nofollow">Institute For Creation Research.</a> Very good material.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-21461464043486856252009-08-09T16:33:23.995-05:002009-08-09T16:33:23.995-05:00Nightmare said:"And thank you Harvey for lett...Nightmare said:<i>"And thank you Harvey for letting the links through - again, more than many others would."</i><br /><br />That's not a problem. I think that we should know the opposing arguments and IF we have the truth it's not a threat to review contrary material. If anything it'll teach us how to better understand what we believe...at least that's what I find.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-81591503365245517552009-08-09T01:41:09.375-05:002009-08-09T01:41:09.375-05:00Laura said...
The Wyoming was 450 feet long and wa...Laura said...<br /><i>The Wyoming was 450 feet long and was in service between 1909-1924, 15 years on the sea before it sank.</i><br /><br />Reference? Because it wasn't this Wyoming (Length: 198 ft 6 in, length of service 23 years, fate - sold)<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wyoming_(1859)<br /><br />or any of the other three ships bearing the name USS Wyoming.<br /><br /><i>God didn't tell Noah to go gather all the animals, He told him to bring the animals into the ark. God said "two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive." Doesn't sound like a gathering mission to me, so all that stuff where he argues the logistics of gathering is built on scriptural error.</i><br /><br />So? How did the critters overcome the geographical and climatological difficulties to get there? How did they overcome said difficulties to get back to their present homes from the Middle East? And why aren't there trace populations of things like bison and pronghorn stretching from here to the Middle East?<br /><br /><i>Like we aren't suppose to see that the study was on species in the first place!</i><br /><br />That is dealing with a common Christian counter argument - that two of each genus, not each species where taken. Again, you assume malign motive.<br /><br /><i>Most people? First I ever heard of it! Having set up a make believe argument that all fossil-bearing strata was created in 40 days and 40 nights, he then goes on to prove his make-believe argument is false - the longest of his posts.</i><br /><br />I'm not surprised you haven't heard such opinion, but it is in fact a very, very common claim among flood proponents.<br /><br /><i>His opinion (we sure can't call it "proof" as you said) continues in this vein, totally unscientific. But the one that was the funniest is number 7:</i><br /><br />You're on the merry-go-round Laura - nit picking at trivial details so as to not have to deal with the meat of the argument. Said site is indeed scientific (soft science, but science nonetheless) - what makes you think it isn't? And it is indeed proof of the contrary sort simply by the fact that the questions it poses do not have any viable answers unless one assumes a truly absurd amount of miraculous events that would serve no other purpose than to keep the ark story viable.<br /><br />And truly if one assumes as many miracles as necessary, why bother with the ark at all? Why would your god have not simply instantaneously disintegrated all the people he didn't like - a far easier solution.<br /><br />And this is merely the problems inherent with the ark story itself. You didn't even touch on the huge historical issues around such an event - <br /><br />http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#history<br /><br />Sorry, but the sheer weight of all these unanswered "whys" disproves the flood story for anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in keeping it alive.Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-45128934803280343682009-08-09T01:08:26.055-05:002009-08-09T01:08:26.055-05:00Laura said...
What generationwas Jesus talking abo...Laura said...<br /><i>What generationwas Jesus talking about? The generation that sees the signs He spoke of.</i><br /><br />The stars fell out of the sky in the 1st century? Then how is it the Earth still exists as anything more than a cinder?<br /><br /><i>2..."There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”</i><br /><br />This is clearly a "second coming" passage (as is the Mark version, the original, which is far more clear on the matter). Howso do you equate the transfiguration to the second coming?<br /><br /><i>Now I ask you, is this guy trying to HELP us by quoting out of context,</i><br /><br />The context is sound. What I (as noted, I care not about the site author) am doing is letting the text say what it says, rather than trying to find a way to make it fit a preconceived notion. I don't blame you though - I wore those same blinders of devotion for many years, and they were certainly strong enough to lead me to gloss over such problems in the same way.<br /><br />Continued....Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-28498147420639205242009-08-09T00:56:38.514-05:002009-08-09T00:56:38.514-05:00Laura said...
They are blind to who controls them ...Laura said...<br /><i>They are blind to who controls them because if this statement was true, they wouldn't spend so much time lying about the Word of God.</i><br /><br />1) And Harvey talks about conspiracy theories. "who controls them" if the implication of that isn't the biggest conspiracy theory in the world I dunno what is.<br /><br />2) They aren't lying in most cases. Ignorant in some, but the ones of value are telling the truth as they see it. Remember what I said about assigning motives to people?<br /><br /><i>One of those "trying to help others" is Oprah's new geru (Tolle)who teaches we are god. Now where have we heard that one before? (Genesis 3)</i><br /><br />Oprah was promoting The Secret (aka The Joke). I find her ability to discern value from garbage to be as questionable as that of the general public. If one wants to be an occultist, be an occultist and learn a system that has actual value, not that feel good Mc-ocfluffism crap.<br /><br />Continued...Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-32338851684484873702009-08-09T00:56:12.499-05:002009-08-09T00:56:12.499-05:00Laura said...
I'm a warrior for Christ.
Conve...Laura said...<br /><i>I'm a warrior for Christ.</i><br /><br />Conversation is not the same as war, sorry.<br /><br /><i>And as much as I hate to feed my mind the nonsense and lies I know I'll find on those links you posted,</i> <br /><br />Why? Do you fear it? If it's all "nonsense and lies" what is there to fear? Further, I find that quote amusing given that the evilbible site is basically direct quotes from the bible (in context) XD Just noting.<br /><br /><i>I'm going to go read them</i><br /><br />Thank you, that's more than many others would do. And thank you Harvey for letting the links through - again, more than many others would.<br /><br />Laura said...<br /><i>The link provided is to a site that just shows willful ignorance of the Bible.</i> <br /><br />For clarity's sake I should note I consider that author's commentary pointless. The reason I chose that site was because it had all the relevant verses in one spot, and I can't remember chapter and verse to save my life (same with road numbers/names, etc) - ie it was convenient.<br /><br /><i>So I ask you please, open your heart to the truth I'm going to show you and don't try to defend someone else's words when they don't even want to know the truth.</i><br /><br />Listening, but not uncritically (as you should expect ;) ). As for defending the author, well, see above XD IMO that author needs some reading comprehension help.<br /><br /><i>Everything under those first two sentances from that website is going to be based on error of what the Bible teaches, so...<br />where do you want me to start?</i><br /><br />Before we start in this, I should make something very clear - the bible means nothing to me. It is nothing more than a collection of smaller books some guys wrote to note what they believed. Thusly, quoting the bible as an argument from authority is pointless in the long run as the bible has no authority in my eyes. Not trying to be difficult, just clearly explaining the challenge before you, k?<br /><br />That noted, the rapture verses, the stuff for Revelations, etc is basically all irrelevant. Why? Because this:<br /><br />"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, <b>this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.</b> Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)<br /><br />and this<br /><br />He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1 NAB) <br /><br />failed. Jesus did not return when he stated he would. The generation that was alive at the time and everyone the heard the original speaking of the Mark verse are long, long dead (presuming both verses are accurate and not mere fiction).<br /><br />According to OT standards, this makes Jesus a false prophet. Thusly, how can there be any truth to claims of his divinity, claims about the rapture, tribulation, etc when he can't even keep his word?<br /><br />I'm sorry to have to discard much of your work here, but if you had read farther and saw the verses I meant it would have saved much effort and time (I should have posted them directly sorry) :(<br /><br />Continued....Nightmarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00981755003761501997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-80503533117803838342009-08-08T22:27:51.878-05:002009-08-08T22:27:51.878-05:00Really, Harvey? (blush)
Those sites weren't as...Really, Harvey? (blush)<br />Those sites weren't as bad as some I've seen that were actually demonic, weaving their web of lies for satan's sole purpose of casting doubt. More like tentacles reaching into your brain as they slyly move one word in front of the other so many times you don't know where to start to expose their deception.<br /><br />Those two sites I looked at came from pride; that they think they know something you don't know, so it was like shooting fish in a barrel.<br /><br />I'm hopeful that you will change your mind about sticking around for the tribulation. Because this is what I'll be taking part in after the rapture:<br /><br />The raptured Church will participate in is a judgment by God — the Judgment of the Just. This judgment on works is not to determine eternal destiny, but to determine degrees of reward <br />(2 Cor. 5:10; Rev. 19:6-9).<br /><br />The second event is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This feast celebrates the spiritual marriage of Christ's Bride — the Church — to her Savior. <br /><br />Revelation 19:7-9 tells us of this wonderful celebration, "Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. Then the angel said to me, 'Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' And he added, 'These are the true words of God.'"<br /><br />The third event follows the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and is the Church's preparation to follow the King of Kings into the Battle of Armageddon at the conclusion of the Tribulation - the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Zech. 14:1-21; Matt. 24:29-31; Mk. 13:24-27; Lk. 21:25-27; Rev. 19:11-21).<br /><br />Revelation 19:14 identifies the Church in their "fine linen, white and clean", which was given to us. The Church and angelic forces follow the King of Kings into His Second Coming to the earth, but only Jesus Himself will engage in battle and with mere words defeats the nations in siege against Jerusalem.<br /><br />It's going to be way-cool! I hope to see you and Nightmare there. And even though we have never met, we will know each other instantly, and we'll point our fingers at one another and scream with delight over what has happened, grinning like silly people. :-)Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-47218734513951464802009-08-08T20:29:11.988-05:002009-08-08T20:29:11.988-05:00Laura,
Do your thang lady! You're killin'...Laura,<br /><br />Do your thang lady! You're killin' 'em (I don't mean a person either, I mean your information is FANTASTIC!)District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-28545334207881436362009-08-08T19:40:22.812-05:002009-08-08T19:40:22.812-05:00Nightmare said "Umm, you haven't read muc...Nightmare said <i>"Umm, you haven't read much on the topic outside of Christian literature have you? For instance (link given noah's ark)</i> <br /><br />1. Building the Ark - argues that a wooden ship 450 feet long would not be seaworthy.<br /><br />The Wyoming was 450 feet long and was in service between 1909-1924, 15 years on the sea before it sank.<br /><br />2. Gathering the Animals - based on his own numbers of 15764 animals he states that would be one animal every 38 seconds for 7 days. By his own statement, not impossible. <br /><br />God didn't tell Noah to go gather all the animals, He told him to bring the animals into the ark. God said "two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive." Doesn't sound like a gathering mission to me, so all that stuff where he argues the logistics of gathering is built on scriptural error.<br /><br />3. Fitting the Animals Aboard - He takes a feasibility study based on species that show they could all fit in the ark and only use 47% of the space. Then he says, "but that's assuming they are young", AFTER he says that the greatest number of species are small species. Then, he just throws in "Collecting each species instead of each genus would increase the number of individuals three- to fourfold" and that's his entire argument. Like we aren't suppose to see that the study was on species in the first place!<br /><br />His opinion (we sure can't call it "proof" as you said) continues in this vein, totally unscientific. But the one that was the funniest is number 7:<br /><br />7. Producing the Geological Record - "Most people who believe in a global flood also believe that the flood was responsible for creating all fossil-bearing strata."<br /><br />Most people? First I ever heard of it! Having set up a make believe argument that all fossil-bearing strata was created in 40 days and 40 nights, he then goes on to prove his make-believe argument is false - the longest of his posts.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-41570066583160966772009-08-08T18:10:20.915-05:002009-08-08T18:10:20.915-05:00Let's just take the first 7 points he lists on...Let's just take the first 7 points he lists on that site. He is saying the same 2 things 7 times.<br /><br />1..."all these things will come upon this generation."<br /><br />What generationwas Jesus talking about? The generation that sees the signs He spoke of. <br /><br />2..."There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” <br /><br />And this was true. Let's look at the scripture:<br /><br />"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.<br /><br />And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, <br /><br />And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. <br /><br />And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him..."<br />~Matthew 16:28 17:1-3 <br /><br />Now I ask you, is this guy trying to HELP us by quoting out of context, or is he an instrument of the devil? The blind leading the blind, hoping all fall into the same pit and no one seeks the truth for themselves?Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-87479679006313266962009-08-08T16:58:04.720-05:002009-08-08T16:58:04.720-05:00Well, I can't find it right now - searching in...Well, I can't find it right now - searching in Daniel.<br /><br />But we don't even need the scripture I was looking for to see that His Second Coming will not be "like a thief in the night" (the rapture).<br /><br />In Revelations, at the end of the Tribulation, the Two Witnesses will be killed and lay in the streets for the very specific 3 and a half days. The the whole world will see them stand up and God will resurrect them to Heaven. Then the "third woe" will come quickly, which is His Second Coming.<br /><br />Anyone left who reads the Bible (or listens to those who have) should not be surprised at the timing of His Second Coming. So Jesus and the Apostles were talking about the rapture of the church being "like a thief in the night".<br /><br />Everything under those first two sentances from that website is going to be based on error of what the Bible teaches, so...<br />where do you want me to start?Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-74643147772629969412009-08-08T16:08:09.459-05:002009-08-08T16:08:09.459-05:00Nightmare said "In truth, while the bible and...Nightmare said <i>"In truth, while the bible and the preachers would have you believe that such individuals have "hardened their heart" and are looking to harm others, that is most often not the case. The majority have simply not found the bible/Christianity to be the truth it is claimed to be, and are trying to share what they have learned and correct the mistakes of other (mistakes they once made), and help others lead better lives.</i><br /><br />They are blind to who controls them because if this statement was true, they wouldn't spend so much time lying about the Word of God. <br /><br />One of those "trying to help others" is Oprah's new geru (Tolle)who teaches we are god. Now where have we heard that one before? (Genesis 3)Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-24672795291889358682009-08-08T15:47:39.320-05:002009-08-08T15:47:39.320-05:00Nightmare said "Howso? Christians have been s...Nightmare said <i>"Howso? Christians have been saying that for 2000 years and we still have nothing to show for it. In fact, the bible's Jesus himself disproves such a claim:(link provided)</i><br /><br />The link provided is to a site that just shows willful ignorance of the Bible. I couldn't even make it past the first two lines without seeing their error. So I ask you please, open your heart to the truth I'm going to show you and don't try to defend someone else's words when <b>they</b> don't even want to know the truth.<br /><br />First line from web page: <i>"Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon. Christians would have you believe that it shall come as “a thief in the night”.</i><br /><br />It's not Armageddon that will come as a thief in the night. It's when Jesus comes for His Church that will be a day we don't know or expect "as a thief in the night".<br /><br />How do we know this for sure? Because Jesus says that no man, or even the angels in Heaven know the day. Only our Father in Heaven knows the day. Yet we WILL know the day of His Second Coming, when His feet touch the Mt. of Olives, so Jesus was talking about two seperate events.<br /><br />Here are the rapture verses so we can compare them to His Second Coming verses:<br /><br />Mat. 24:36,42,44,50 <br />Mat. 25:13 <br />1 Thes. 4:18 <br />Tit. 2:13 <br />1 John 2:28, 3:2-3<br /><br />The Second Coming verses tell us that there are many events that have to take place before (unlike the rapture that could happen today). Just a few to show the difference:<br /><br />Rev. 12:13-17 and Zec. 13:7-9 - the rise of the anitchrist<br /><br />Dan. 9:27 - the treaty with Israel the antichrist instagates<br /><br />Mat. 24:15, <br />2 Thess. 2:3-4<br />Rev. 11:1-2 all speak of the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.<br /><br />Rev. 6 - 18 tell us about all the plagues and judgments, how much of the population will be wiped out, etc., all as part of the 7 year Tribulation which precedes His Second Coming.<br /><br />Because the rapture could happen at any time and His Second Coming is preceded by so many specific events in seven years, and that I have yet to see scripture that contradicts itself when closely examined, I am confident these are two seperate events.<br /><br />Let me see if I can find the scripture that says the day of the Lords return. 2250 days I believe from the beginning of the Tribulation.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-85683214914524861842009-08-08T14:23:35.436-05:002009-08-08T14:23:35.436-05:00I don't feel picked on at all, and the day tha...I don't feel picked on at all, and the day that I stop listening to criticism and stop trying to be a more effective representative of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be the day He comes for me. I (underlined) have never lead anyone to the Lord. I'm not an evangelist and don't pretend to be. I'm a warrior for Christ.<br /><br />And as much as I hate to feed my mind the nonsense and lies I know I'll find on those links you posted, I'm going to go read them so I can expose them and hopefully breakdown a stronghold in YOUR mind.Lauranoreply@blogger.com