tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post6568539451134056993..comments2024-03-27T11:13:34.520-05:00Comments on The Dunamis Word: In The Matrix With Stephen HawkingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-3968761855788219322013-11-28T00:45:17.933-06:002013-11-28T00:45:17.933-06:00No matter how you slice it, it's not moral to ...No matter how you slice it, it's not moral to kill others for crimes they did not commit. Like killing babies or all animals in the global flood. It's immoral to torture people for arbitrary rules, I don't care if you warned them that you would do it. Especially arbitrary rules that harm no one.How does a man and woman who happened to be unmarried but have sex, hurt anyone? And how does it warrant torture, whether eternally or for 1 hour? How does gathering sticks warrant murder? How does calling someone baldy justify death by bears? How does not believing something, warrant eternal torture? How does people complaining, warrant murder? How is purposely "hardening Pharoah's heart" just so you can show out by smiting everyone else with plagues and eventually killing innocent firstborn children and even adults and animals, how is that moral? It isn't. That's immoral.<br /><br />Let's run a thought experiment. Lets suppose....and we're just supposing, i'm not endorsing this religion....that Islam is indeed the correct religion. Now, according to the Quran, all nonbelievers in Islam are destined for hell. You are not a believer in Islam. So you spend your life being a sincere Christian, very sincere in your belief, really having faith that you are serving God and you have the right belief system. You are generally a good person. Now, according to Islam, Satan is deceiving you with christianity (THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, IM NOT SAYING YOU'RE BEING DECEIVED). If you are being deceived, you don't know you're being deceived, you think you're really serving God. So you die, and when you die, it's not what you were expecting.<br /><br />You finally meet God, who, to your surprise is Allah. He ask you "Why did you not believe Islam???" You say "Well, I sincerely believed I was serving you by being a christian and I thought that the bible was your word. If I had known you were God, I would've been a muslim" And you were telling the truth. Allah replies "I revealed myself through my perfect, infallible word, the Quran! I sent you my messenger, Muhammad! I made it obvious that Islam is my 1 and only religion through my word, the Quran." "But I was deceived, you can't fairly blame me for being deceived by Satan" you reply. "It doesn't matter! I sent my word and my prophet!" says Allah as he pulls the lever and the floor opens up and you drop into hell.<br /><br />Now, let me ask you? Do you think that you deserve to go to hell, assuming Islam is correct? Despite your sincerity, despite the fact you tried to be a good person, despite the fact that you were thoroughly tricked (because people being deceived usually don't know it). And since Allah is supposedly omniscient and omnipotent, he can appear to you right now and he would know exactly the way to show you that Islam is the right religion, but does he do it? No. He lets you mosey on through life being wrong. And obviously, since you are NOT a muslim, then the Quran and the prophet Muhammad is not all it takes to let you know Allah is God and Islam is the right religion.<br /><br />Now I ask you, would Allah be moral to condemn you to damnation?fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-12752860288282066232013-11-28T00:00:38.552-06:002013-11-28T00:00:38.552-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-50782420380894932172013-11-27T23:16:09.835-06:002013-11-27T23:16:09.835-06:00You said: I haven't learned any of that.
That...You said: <i>I haven't learned any of that.</i><br /><br />That's because you are slightly ignorant-LOL!!!! Read my comment above about the dispensing of God's justice and judgement.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-78413960013540525912013-11-27T23:07:38.768-06:002013-11-27T23:07:38.768-06:00In the face of that and much more, to say that God...In the face of that and much more, to say that God should be silent is atrocious. When we look at the bible and the mandates and the poetic language of the prophecies, we see God commanding death upon the enemies of Israel. I would agree if this was unprovoked and unwarned. Take Jericho for instance. They KNEW God was coming for nearly 40 years. they were afraid of the God of Israel for what had happened in Egypt. That is what Rahab told Joshua and Caleb...very few of the inhabitants of the city left. They had 40 years to do so, but shook their finger in God's face and dared him to do what he said he would do...Feeling sorry for Amalek? Well that was the same Amalek who had over 70 years from the prophecy of their destruction and judgement to do right and repent. What did they do? Antagonize Israel and even sought to have a curse pronounced on them...God said "he who curses you shall be cursed" (Genesis 12:3), Now, what was God to do? Does his word mean nothing? If he did not destroy Amalek, then he is a liar. If he destroys Amalek without warning, maybe you can say he is cruel. In this case, Amalek is given nearly 70 years to repent, change and or vacate the city...What do the inhabitants of Amalek do? They too shake their finger in the face of God....<br /><br />Now, there are 2 ways discipline is dispensed. There is a relational basis and there is a consequential basis. The relational basis of discipline teaches nothing. Everything is based on "our relationship". This is how the "teacher's pet" is handled. however, every good athlete and achiever knows that the best way that discipline is dispensed is in light of consequences. If something is lost, or has the ability to be lost, or if there is some consequence to actions, whether positive or negative, achievement and improvement is made. <br /><br />Like I said, a good athlete knows he or she will play and do well, IF they put the discipline and hard work in. If they do neither and still play, that may last for a season, but will end in despair and a short unsuccessful career. Bringing it back to focus, God destroying his enemies was NOT merciless, neither was it sudden, malicious or any of the sort. He gave mercy...folk wagged a finger at it...JUST LIKE MODERN ATHEISTS....<br /><br />What should God do, IF his word means anything, he MUST judge ALL that rebuff him and his plan. That is another post.... District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-25905586879696754782013-11-27T23:07:15.447-06:002013-11-27T23:07:15.447-06:00What is a "never happen to anyone rule"?...What is a "never happen to anyone rule"? That is what you are suggesting. the real key here is this and I want you to think about it...You said: <i> I'm sure most, sane people will rather bow down to God rather than be tortured forever</i><br /><br />I fully agree with that. I believe that to be true. God has done all that is necessary for folk to come to faith in him. He is present everyday and in every way, giving and dispensing grace even to live. Now, if a person says, I REJECT you God and all that you have done, or say, "I don't believe you and If I did know you existed hold you guilty for all evil and therefore don't want you" and they do this, not out of their ignorance, but out of their knowledge, then how just would God be, to, against all of their knowledge, MAKE THEM live and stay in HIS eternal presence? Why and how would that make sense? <br /><br />The issue is this...where hell and the Lake Of Fire is, and I won't play with you on the issue because I really don't know. It is a place however, where the presence of the Lord IS NOT. Man will not be bothered with God, his morality, his word, his will, his ways or anything else. I have NO CLUE as to where that could possibly be. That is a stumper to me wholly because one of the things that God is, is omnipresent.So is it, and I am not asking you, a place where his presence is shielded, or where his presences is not??? I don't know, there seems to be biblical consequences and conditions to both answers. <br /><br />Back to you and your argument...You would claim that "eternity" is too long in hell for disobedience or for what we know as sin. Well everyone sins because of disbelief. The same holds about what I was saying earlier. If a person does not wish to believe God, then why should he be bothered with God for an eternity? More specifically, to the point, why is "eternity" too long for punishment and just right for reward? If eternity was abbreviated, then heaven would have to be abbreviated as well. So this is totally consistent. <br /><br />Now, the problem with naturalism is that it devalues life. There is no purpose, plan or design behind life. Therefore 6 million can die and that is no big deal. Although it was actually about 12 million, how about the the 51 million under Stahlin? Or how about the Mao Zedong who killed about 70 million, how about Pol Pot who killed about 3 million folk, nearly one third of his country? The church fought hard against Hitler. he did not do this in the name of God. He was his god! <br /><br />I have already gone over this ground in debate with a university professor. read that debate so you will see how I have already addressed those type of concernsDistrict Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-89578368805877587892013-11-27T22:56:34.013-06:002013-11-27T22:56:34.013-06:00I haven't learned any of that. But I do think ...I haven't learned any of that. But I do think that if God exists and if morality does come from him, he constantly violated his own morality. If morality comes from God, then what's moral for him to do, must be moral for me to do. Otherwise, it becomes a do as I say, not as I do deal. Which is hypocrisy. I see people wearing What would Jesus do wristbands. Well, since Jesus is God, if someone is found gathering sticks on the sabbath, you kill them. If someone goes to a strip club, my guess is that you ought to torture them or douse them with gasoline and set them on fire. I mean, that is what Jesus would do.<br /><br />If my kids break my arbitrary rules, like violating curfew, then I should take them to the basement to the torture chamber I have constructed and while I couldn't possibly torture them for an eternity, can I just torture them for like an hour? I mean, they have free will, and they used their free will to violate my curfew, therefore, it follows, they must go to my torture chamber (even though I make the rules and I could just NOT send them to my torture chamber, just to be nice). And get this, it's not me torturing them, they're torturing themselves!!!! Not my fault.<br /><br />Despite the fact that I torture my kids in a torture chamber for breaking my arbitrary rules, I still love them.<br /><br />Wait, whats that? Thats evil when I do it? But, I'm following the morality....which I get from the christian God and torturing and burning people perpetually is what he does when someone breaks his arbitrary rules (which he call sin). I'm confused, why is it evil when I do it and even many christians would agree that I should be locked up in the nearest prison and have the key thrown away, but when God does the same actions, he's moral and just and loving and merciful? I dont get it.fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-75890343640958362142013-11-27T19:49:44.179-06:002013-11-27T19:49:44.179-06:00So what have we learned in this diatribe?
We hav...So what have we learned in this diatribe? <br /><br />We have learned that scientific evidence is not limited to evidence that can be discerned by the 5 senses.<br />We have learned that there are many real things that cannot be proven empirically and that empirical evidence is only one line of proof for the existence of anything.<br />We have learned that things such as thoughts, memories, math, and even logic itself is not subject to empiricism and yet exist in real time. <br />We have learned that just as certain facts as mentioned above exist, but are not subject to empiricism, the existence of God is also not subject to empiricism. <br />We have learned that it is impossible for naturalism to be self starting. That is a logically incoherent contradiction. <br />We have learned that the priori naturalism in scientific conclusions that many scientists impose are only metaphysical philosophy of naturalism. <br />We have learned that all things have a cause and since the natural universe could not start itself, the cause must be a supernatural one. To state otherwise is a logical contradiction. <br />We have learned that the Christian God, through Jesus who is God, made certain claims in real time as a real historical person that are and were unique in history.<br />We have affirmed without any retort, that Jesus was resurrected from the dead after having done many infallible proofs to demonstrate his power over life, the elements, sin and ultimately death itself. <br />We have learned that God is not simply authenticated by miracles and that God, in spite of men, blesses men anyway.<br />We have learned that Christians only follow those who proclaim that Jesus is Lord no matter how many miracles anyone else performs.<br />We have learned that if there is anything such as morality, it cannot be gained or delivered by naturalism alone. If there is moral law, there must be a moral law giver. The literary biblical evidence suggests that the God of the bible has dispensed whatever sense of morality that we have and not merely rocks or elements of nature who clearly have no moral position one way or another. <br /><br />We have also learned that people who make claims about what god isn't should expect to have those claims challenged in real time and if they don't know the arguments shouldn't make them simply because one idiot has stated it. Here is an example of an idiot stating something that other idiots claim...even he was debunked by an agnostic:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUQMJR2BP1w<br /><br />Totally laughable!!!!District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-63129405996511436252013-11-27T19:44:17.586-06:002013-11-27T19:44:17.586-06:00Ok, I need more details about those miracles befor...Ok, I need more details about those miracles before I can make a determination You could be making it all up for all I know. And all those things are AMBIGUOUS!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER CHURCHES THAT HAVE BEEN DESTROYED, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER WOMEN WHO WERE RAPED AND MURDERED??? <br /><br />And you can't compare looting to eternally torturing billions of people!!! And Hitler only killed 6 million jews, which, ironically he was doing in the name of God and God could have prevented the whole thing by appearing to Hitler and telling him not to do it! But he watched it happen!<br /><br />Be that as it may, 6 million jews is nothing compared to the millions God killed in the bible, the billions God plans to kill during the tribulation, and the billions more he plans to eternally torture!!! And since those 6 million jews probably didn't believe in Jesus as the son of God, according to your theology, they are among the billions of unfortunate souls God is torturing right now!<br /><br />And don't make it sound like God is really doing everyone a favor by eternally torturing people rather than "let them be in his presence, because thats actually worse". Nonsense. No one will volunteer to be burned alive forever. I'm sure most, sane people will rather bow down to God rather than be tortured forever. I can prove it. In 1979, in Iraq, when Sadaam Hussein ruled, they were reading off a list of traitors to be executed. And while this list was being read, his officials were shouting praises to him. Obviously, they didn't want to be on his list of those to be executed. So I think, if given the ultimatum between worshipping God and being eternally tortured, they'd choose to worship God.<br /><br />And why does torture have to be the only alternative to not being in his presence? That's just an arbitrary rule he made up. <br /><br />I judge people or God, based on their actions. Thats the only way I can tell if anyone is good or not is by their actions.fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-27283829363178047612013-11-27T19:16:07.837-06:002013-11-27T19:16:07.837-06:00So....in keeping with God's morality....since ...So....in keeping with God's morality....since all morality does come from him, I suspect i'll have to adjust my behavior.<br />Next time someone calls me a name, how should I kill them? I don't own any bears, can I just use my dog? 2 Kings 2:23-24<br />Next time I come across a woman who is not married, and also not a virgin, can I just shoot her to death or do I have to go through all the trouble of getting all the men in Detroit together to stone her? Deuteronomy 22:20-21<br />I don't have a daughter I can sell into slavery, do you think God would be ok with me selling my sister instead? Exodus 21:7<br />My brother insists on working on Sunday, how should I kill him? Is running him over with my car ok or do I once again have to go through the trouble of getting all the men of Detroit together to stone him? Exodus 35:2<br />I have a friend who is a muslim, and I'm confused, should I torture him now to help God get the ball rolling (Revelation 21:8) or should I just kill him as sanctioned in Deuteronomy 13:9 or can I torture him and then kill him? I mean after all, it's not my fault he's using his free will to practice Islam, therefore, I'm not torturing him (or killing him), he's doing it to himself!!!<br /><br />Thank you for reminding me that morality comes from the christian God and I want to be just as moral as he is and I think God would appreciate that I want to follow his laws to the letter. So please, help clear up my concerns so i'll know the exact way in which to please God.fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-70457911641877622782013-11-27T18:57:53.718-06:002013-11-27T18:57:53.718-06:00So far as the evidence it would take for you to ac...So far as the evidence it would take for you to acknowledge that there is a God (although you say that there could be based on what you contend to be no evidence) You are incoherent as they come in your reasoning. Anyway, you said: <i>"I did describe the evidence it would take. Didn't you read my whole spiel on the miracles that happened in the bible? I want to see those or something in the same vein as those. Why can't I?</i><br /><br />Ooh you mean like the evidence of a dead man, being raised back again to life after 45 minutes of being declared dead? Or do you mean like the miracle of God protecting a church filled with over 600 people from an F-4 tornado that reached the outer edges of the parking lot before mysteriously turning away, or in that same city, after having destroyed nearly 1,000 homes only resulting on 1 death and 8 serious injuries? ooh, that just happened 2 WEEKS AGO in Washington, IL, less than just 15 minutes from my home..Some years ago, a young lady explained how that for nearly 3 days, she and her family were in a small space in the bathroom of a home in Rowanda trying to escape a renegade militia who was raping and killing women. All they could do was try to go without anyone hearing them and stay until the soldiers left. For 3 days the soldier walked by and around the bathroom, but never ONCE entered for any reason and any sound that was made by this family of women was unheard. The whole thing was miraculous! Her testimony was astounding. guess what and who she credits...The God of the bible that she called on. <br /><br />But no, you won't accept that as any evidence. It is all simply coincidence to you. It is something that "science will explain one day" <br /><br />So far as your human morality...PLEASE...let''s show how moral humans are in the aftermath of tragedy with scams schemes and looting of stores. Washington, IL,. was a White and well to do community...when the tornado happened, CROOKS were the first to make it to the scene...police had to staff to keep crooks out. <b>Everything you know about being moral you know from God and him alone</b> You sir are a RUDE and IMPETUOUS child sitting on God's lap and slapping him in the face...SO SAD!!!!<br /><br />Historically, if a person doesn't want God, then to be forced in his presence in eternity is an injustice and would be hell. Why should God save you apart from your own will and desire? To bad you don;t understand that this life is an eternal deal...let that light go off too!!! How long should Hitler be punished for his crimes against humanity? Were the lives of the millions he killed not important or important enough for you to place a time limit on it? PLEASE...your demand is like a kindergartner trying to teach a MIT University Math Professor, math.... <br />District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-31393937058779614572013-11-27T17:53:42.171-06:002013-11-27T17:53:42.171-06:00http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_perso...http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people<br />http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_Satan_personally_killing_peoplefmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-47731843255597198412013-11-27T17:49:57.106-06:002013-11-27T17:49:57.106-06:00I did describe the evidence it would take. Didn...I did describe the evidence it would take. Didn't you read my whole spiel on the miracles that happened in the bible? I want to see those or something in the same vein as those. Why can't I?<br /><br />And you quoting the bible is no different from the muslim quoting the quran or a hindu quoting the veda texts, which, by the way, pre date the bible. As for personal experiences, your personal experience is not evidence for me. It's evidence for you. I haven't had any such experience.<br /><br />You keep making claims...a moral law demands a moral law giver? And why does it HAVE to be the christian God? Those why questions still haven't be answer. You just keep quoting bible scriptures without answering the question and saying "it's obvious", no it isn't. If it was, there'd be nothing to talk about. Why aren't we talking about whether Thanksgiving exist as a holiday? Because THAT's obvious!!!<br /><br />And if the christian God does exist, his morality is suspect at best. I'd go so far as to say I'm more moral than him and so are you. I don't think any of us would mercilessly torture someone for an eternity for honestly being mistaken as to the correct religion. I don't think any of us would mercilessly torture someone for not believing in something for which there is no evidence. I don't think you would sanction slavery, command people to be murdered for worshipping the wrong god (I hate when christians point the finger at how violent Allah is, while conveniently forgetting how violent there own god is), murdering people for things they didn't even do (murdering 70,000 people for what David did, murdering babies and animals in a global flood for things they didn't do, how wicked could a baby or a goat be, cursing all of mankind with a sin nature because someone thousands of years ago ate a fruit), murdering kids with grizzly bears for calling Elisha bald, murdering Ananias and Sapphira for telling a lie, allowing Job, a righteous man by all accounts, to be tormented and have his life destroyed over a bet with Satan.<br /><br />Gods biblical kill count is in the millions if you factor in the flood. On the other hand, Satan, the prince of darkness, the evil one, has a kill count of 10. And even then, those killings were allowed by God. In the book of Isaiah, he admits to creating good AND evil.<br /><br />And despite that kill count, that doesn't count the billions of people who he plans to have tortured and burned alive for eternity for such high crimes as nonbelief and having sex with your girlfriend or going to a nightclub. Arbitrary things which warrant NO punishment at all. If there was an earthly ruler who tortured his subjects for not worshipping him or not believing in something for which no evidence exist, we would call him a tyrant, a monster and agree he ought to be stopped.<br /><br />So I don't find God excessively loving, merciful, just or moral.<br /><br />fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-66082313087661195392013-11-27T17:24:34.248-06:002013-11-27T17:24:34.248-06:00Here is former atheist and legal evidence, journal...Here is former atheist and legal evidence, journalist scholar, Lee Strobel asserting why the CLAIM of Jesus is important and so unique and why Islam did not make and or parallel the claims and the poofs of Jesus. He has already argued ALL of your arguments and buried them like most will when they allow the evidence to speak. <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpp37iJogFI District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-85423999802626206712013-11-27T17:12:06.504-06:002013-11-27T17:12:06.504-06:00Dr. Francis Collins set out to affirm his atheism ...Dr. Francis Collins set out to affirm his atheism in light of the evidence. Listen to what this SCIENTIST came to the conclusion of. In this case it was the moral law which demanded a moral law giver. THIS is how rational people reason. <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qygy14tC3IDistrict Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-72036278230242744322013-11-27T17:01:16.971-06:002013-11-27T17:01:16.971-06:00You have never once defined what the "appropr...You have never once defined what the "appropriate evidence for the supernatural" is for you. In addition, that is wholly subjective anyway. So until you know what type of evidence that you would accept, you can't really talk about and criticize the evidence that exists. <br /><br />God has been proven over and over...Then there are the MILLIONS and BILLIONS of personal experiences with him that only reaffirm him. The only question is will you continue to be an Ostrich, or will you wake up and come back to reality? District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-8068980748149078552013-11-27T16:57:16.637-06:002013-11-27T16:57:16.637-06:00You said: Look I don't care about claims Jesus...You said: <i>Look I don't care about claims Jesus made!!!!</i><br /><br /><b>LOOK, I AND WE DO!</b> In fact those claims make all the difference in the world. The only problem is your understanding. You have NONE as to why that is important especially in light of the fact that he DEMONSTRATED his claims. by and according to all lines of historical evidence which includes but is not limited to the biblical record itself.<br /><br />i don;t mind debating with folk who can comprehend the issues and what they mean. But I don;t like wasting time with neophytes who won't listen to reason, obviously have no or little experience dealing with the issues and who can only offer unwarranted radical dissension on primary issues that even leading atheists affirm that, if true, demands that they leave atheism in the dust. <br /><br />Anthony Flew, understood that the evidence for god was so overwhelming, that he left years of atheist dogma in the dust. Some say he only reverted to deisim. However, among the facts that caused Anthony to leave atheism were not only the complexity of the physical world, but also the overwhelming facts surrounding the resurrection of Jesus. <br /><br /> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1e4FUhfHiU<br /><br />This man thought circles around both of us and held championed and wrote of many of the positions you now hold and left them all for the CERTAINTY that there is a God and ultimately that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God. <br /><br />Here is explains his position after being criticized by Richard Dawkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPne8NGgRE<br /><br />He states that Dawkins set forth his propositions without awareness of studies that were available to him in order to evaluate the info better. It seems that you follow the way of Dawkins. That is more closely related to insanity than rationality. <br /><br />Remember C.S. Lewis was an atheist who set forth most of your theories and objections as well. This is what he said about the reason he converted:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXbq3aVNlGg<br /><br />At the end of the day, it's not about an argument or doing handstands to convince you. It is about a person exercising their FREEDOM to believe. The EVIDENCE stands. It cannot be changed and will not be rearranged to suit you. The only question is, do you and people like you really want to be free? District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-81388715326926927132013-11-27T15:49:53.947-06:002013-11-27T15:49:53.947-06:00In short. if you can take the undeniable, indisput...In short. if you can take the undeniable, indisputable evidence that you have that biblical creation is right and that God exist, I'll see you being interviewed on CNN and i'll be thinking "Well I'll be dog on....he was right all along". And my promise to you is that I will come on here and take back everything I said and admit that you were right. I will make it my business to come to your church in Peoria (I think I see you have one in Detroit, if you do I'll come to that one) to tell you face to face that you were right I was wrong and if you have a church in Detroit, I will make it my business to join. I don't care if im the only member there, it'll just be me and you.<br /><br />So before you say I'm being dogmatic and inflexible and I won;t change, on the contrary, I will, I just need the appropriate evidence for supernatural claims.fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-69817257340347709782013-11-27T13:52:30.538-06:002013-11-27T13:52:30.538-06:00Look I don't care about claims Jesus made!!!!!...Look I don't care about claims Jesus made!!!!! None of them have been demonstrated to be true. None of them, perhaps the most important one, eternal life can even be tested. And the ones that can be tested like Mark 11:24,Matthew 21:21, Matthew 18:19 fail consistently and miserably when actually put to the test. Why should I care what claims the bible makes??? And it's debatable at best as to whether Jesus existed, and even if he did, that says nothing to his supernatural claims which have to be demonstrated separately. And just because 500 people supposedly saw him after his resurrection and just because Josephus wrote about him means nothing.<br /><br />I mean, your whole argument is "The bible says...." which has to presuppose that the bible is correct. I don't share that position. I have no reason to. You might as well be telling me "Alice in wonderland says....". Thats irrelevant to me until such time it can be demonstrated that God exists, then demonstrated that the bible is his word. Otherwise, you're quoting an old book to me.<br /><br />I mean, there is a man in India, right now in the 20-21st century doing miracles exactly what Jesus is said to have done. And he has millions of followers whom we can go talk to right now. No one can talk to any of those claiming to have seen Jesus. So we have a man who lived 2000 years ago, who supposedly did miracles in a superstitious culture where everyone thought everything they couldn't explain was caused by magic.<br /><br />I am sure that 2000 years from now there will be writings on Sathya Sai Baba which will say millions of people saw him fly and raise the dead. And there will be historical writings on him from outside sources. Ok and? Just because Sathya Sai Baba existed doesn't mean he could fly.<br /><br />He died in 2011, but some of his followers are already saying he has come back from the dead. And claims of resurrection are not unique to christianity. There are many jesus-like stories in other religions which pre-date christianity.<br /><br />And you can't use the bible to judge other religions, at least not from a 3rd party objective sense. You're judging them based on a christian perspective, which will always lead you to a biased conclusion. It's like a christian saying "Islam doesn't deal with the problem of sin". Thats because according to Islamic theology, it's not a problem. So it's absurd to say Islam doesn't deal with a christian problem. Of course it doesn't, it's Islam.<br /><br />So to say pagan gods make no promises or they don't have a uniform creed....why do they have to have that? And what does that have to do with their existence one way or the other? fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-76856033488314880402013-11-27T13:51:00.309-06:002013-11-27T13:51:00.309-06:00In addition, all the other things that God did in ...In addition, all the other things that God did in history were witnessed by others. This is the difference between Judaism and Christianity in general. There were plenty of witnesses. Internal and external witnesses to various parts of the narrative. I don;t have to prove any of that to you, you should study what you say you don't believe better.<br /><br />then you say this: <i>Creationnism is untestable....creationism is not science!!!!</i> <br /><br />ABSOLUTELY TRUE! God creating WAS NOT a scientific proposition. How he created was. However, even if you could distinguish the differen, this does not advance your argument against God creating. <br /><br />You said: <i>There is no way to falsify creationism!!!!</i><br /><br />So what? THAT DOES NOT MATTER! Drawing this parallel does not disprove God's creating the universe, as secular hypothesis are also UNTESTABLE...Is the light bulb coming on for you????<br /><br />You said:<i> The big bang theory is well explained,</i><br /><br />That is true...it is EXPLAINED not PROVEN DUE TO TESTS OR FALSIFIABILITY!!!!!! Get it now??????<br /><br />Somebody give this guy some electricity and a switch so he can turn on the LIGHTS!!!!!District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-32073807253904059032013-11-27T13:37:37.689-06:002013-11-27T13:37:37.689-06:00So far as the evidence for God that you will accep...So far as the evidence for God that you will accept. You said: <i>Well, for starter something thats readily observable and demonstrable.</i><br /><br />OK, what does that mean? Observable as in the evidence for the Big Bang? Well, you have that all day and I have filled the page with all kinds of various arguments of that. Demonstrable? Like I said, what does that mean? I have already proven that science doesn't have to be demonstrable for it to be true. Why do you apply a double standard to God? <br /><br />You argue with a double standard...at least that is miles away from that FALSIFIABLE garbage that you were on previously. So we may be advanced some. Now, you are simply delivering a false standard of acceptance....<br /><br />So define, "demonstrable" and "observable" in light of the fact that the Big Bang is not demonstrable nor observable, but yet considered science. District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-8412137332843966282013-11-27T13:32:21.689-06:002013-11-27T13:32:21.689-06:00This type of answer PROVES what I mean: "Ok, ...This type of answer PROVES what I mean: <i>"Ok, if you want to play word games about what is a thought and how do I know they exist. Well we all have thoughts and they are demonstrated by our speech and actions. Someone can ask me "What am I thinking" and i can give them a response as to what is in my brain at the moment."</i><br /><br />What that is, is a deductive argument. That is not a evidence subject to empiricism. Like I said it is a deduction that you make. In fact it is an assumption as well. So you AFFIRM my statements that thoughts CANNOT be proven by senses as you stated. You cannot prove MY thoughts by senses as well. That AFFIRMS my argument...typed words on a computer screen are not thoughts. They are typed words on a computer screen that proceed from thoughts. Again, seeing types words and claiming thoughts is a deductive argument. The two are NOT one in the same. <br /><br />Either you, don't know how to reason are you are simply ambivalent about a truly rational argument. <br /><br />you say:<i>However, he can't presuppose that because a miracle happens, his specific God, the christian God exist and/or that he is the only god which exist.</i><br /><br />You are talking about going from the transition of a theistic God to a Christian God or God of the bible. The proof of this is contained with the person of Jesus himself. Jesus claimed to be God. he demonstrated that claim with immutable signs and wonders, not only that but a propitiation for sin and the resurrection of the dead. This was rooted in the promise of God, not only his his lifetime, but for centuries beyond him. <br /><br />District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-65022924233883447472013-11-27T13:28:55.914-06:002013-11-27T13:28:55.914-06:00You stated...You are the WIKIPEDIA king...Look, Bi...You stated...You are the WIKIPEDIA king...Look, Big Bang has NEVER been tested. It is untestable! Do you even read what you post? This is what it says...PLEASE pay close attention:<br /><br />The Big Bang is the scientific theory that is most consistent with observations of the past and present states of the universe, and it is widely accepted within the scientific community. It offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background, large scale structure, and the Hubble diagram.<br /><br />The Big bang theory is not science because it can be tested...it is TRUE (as science calls it true) in as much as it is CONSISTENT WITH OBSERVATIONS, or what we already know to be true. There is no test to falsify it.<br /><br />Creationnism is untestable....creationism is not science!!!! There is no way to falsify creationism!!!! The big bang theory is well explained, you just don't want to accept it, because the bible is always true no matter what and if it comes down to reality vs the bible, then the bible has to win.<br /><br />So if you don't want to accept evolution or whatever else because it contradicts with your holy book, be my guest. But arguing with me won't change the facts. If you have proof that evolution is WRONG and that creationism is RIGHT...don't offer it up to me. Become rich and famous by once and for all debunking evolution and proving creationism. Go win your Nobel Prize, go change history. I guarantee you that on December 31, 2099, when people all over the world will be preparing to bring in the 22nd century, you'll probably be long dead, but when the news media is going over the top 10 most important scientific discoveries of the 21st century, Pastor Harvey Burnett will be in the list as the one who proved the literal biblical creation story to be scientific fact and debunked evolution as "junk science". You'll be in between discovering a cure for cancer and establishing space colonies on the moon and Mars.<br /><br />But since you have no such proof, then you won't do that. You'll just put your hands over your ears and say "blah blah blah evolution is wrong, the bible is always right".<br />fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-8702907885663147222013-11-27T13:12:08.244-06:002013-11-27T13:12:08.244-06:00What type of evidence will convince me of a God? W...What type of evidence will convince me of a God? Well, for starter something thats readily observable and demonstrable. Let's go no further than the bible. The ten plagues, Moses parting the red sea, God speaking in a loud and audible voice so everyone could hear him and everyone heard the same thing (not none of this vague, voice in your head, I heard it in my spirit crap), water from a rock, feeding 5000 with a few fish and loaves of bread, raising the dead (I don't mean resuscitated through medical procedures, I mean someone stone cold dead, like I'm at a funeral and the preacher prays to God and the deceased person spontaneously comes back to life, kind of like Lazarus).<br /><br />The bible is chock full of unambiguous miracles that he made sure that everyone knew was attributed to him and him only. I mean, if I were around then and was seeing that Gods existence would be as obvious to me as my own (which is why I have never been able to make sense of the Golden Calf story, it's ridiculous). God interacted with the physical world in undeniable ways all of the time back then where only a delusional person or someone in denial could deny his existence. The fool says in his hear there is no God, wrote Solomon. Yeah I guess you would have to be a fool to say that back then, I mean, just yesterday, he made a pillar of fire come from the sky and he made sure everyone knew it was him who did it, not none of that Zeus crap. Who could forget????<br /><br />Now fast forward 2-3000 years and the best "miracles" we get is some guy who gets lost in the woods and then finds his way out and a whole list of other ambiguous "miracles" that can all be attributed to natural causes. And when he "speaks" all we get is some vague voice in our head or "spirit". This sums up all of my thoughts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2u7JZck_Ifmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-68569439859391541092013-11-27T13:11:56.352-06:002013-11-27T13:11:56.352-06:00The Argument from Miracles
A miracle is an event ... The Argument from Miracles<br /><br />A miracle is an event whose only adequate explanation is the extraordinary and direct intervention of God.<br />There are numerous well-attested miracles.<br />Therefore, there are numerous events whose only adequate explanation is the extraordinary and direct intervention of God.<br />Therefore God exists.<br /><br />Well, first of all, in the way he defines a miracle, there can be no natural explanation. Generally I agree. However, he can't presuppose that because a miracle happens, his specific God, the christian God exist and/or that he is the only god which exist. Thats a form of the argument from ignorance. I hate to beat a dead horse, but I go back to Sathya Sai Baba, who has millions of followers in India who claim to have seen him perform miracles such as raising the dead, fly without technology etc. Now those miracles were attributed to Hindu gods. So by his argument, those gods MUST exist as well. If he says they don't, then he is special pleading.<br /><br />He can't set forth a criteria which is that if miracles exist, God exist but only apply it if those miracles are attributed to the christian God. So now he is in a position, which by his own criteria, he must admit the existence of other gods. He just doesn't get to disregard all other miracles simply because they are attributed to other gods. But somehow, I suspect he would.<br /><br />The Kalam argument<br />Whatever begins to exist has a cause for its coming into being.<br />The universe began to exist.<br />Therefore, the universe has a cause for its coming into being.<br /><br />Well one thing, why does this cause have to be a god, more specifically the christian god? Why can't it be a magic genie? Why can't it be Superman? That has to be answered and you can't use claims out of the christian bible to explain it. Because many of the claims the bible makes are untestable. How exactly are we supposed to test eternal life? There is no way. It's just a belief on faith, so you can't talk about it as if it's a fact of science, unless you're willing to provide a solution which will allow science to go about testing it.<br /><br />The second thing is, if everything MUST have a cause, why does your God get to be exempt? I mean, you've already established that everything must have a cause. So, then, it logically follows, that your God must have a cause. If you say the universe couldn't spontaneously appear, then why could your God? And if you admit that your God could appear without a cause, then why can't the universe? Why does your God get to be the special exception to the rule you put forth?<br /><br />I mean, the whole thing about those arguments are that any one of them could apply to any god, magic genie, superhero. None of them are exclusive to their being a christian God. The only way you can read any of those and conclude "therefore the christian god" is if you already come to the table with a presumption that the christian God is the one and only God, and you would have to believe he already exists anyway. At best, those arguments might point to a generic "God", certainly not any specific God. Even Pascals wager, that can apply to any religion. Assuming Islam is the right religion, then you're bound for hell like anyone else is that is non-muslim. So to be safe, using his system, you would have to believe in ALL gods. The problem with that is, the way to believe in those gods are mutually exclusive to the specific god. I.E. to be an orthodox christian, you must believe Jesus to be God, whereas to be an orthodox muslim, you have to believe Allah is God and that Jesus was just a prophet. You can't do both, so you can either be christian or muslim.<br /><br />fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-7713887888582372622013-11-27T13:11:05.755-06:002013-11-27T13:11:05.755-06:00Ok, if you want to play word games about what is a...Ok, if you want to play word games about what is a thought and how do I know they exist. Well we all have thoughts and they are demonstrated by our speech and actions. Someone can ask me "What am I thinking" and i can give them a response as to what is in my brain at the moment. I'm even putting my thoughts down on this computer screen. That's how I know thoughts exist. They can be demonstrated, even if they can't be seen.<br /><br />I am not arguing for the existence of an alternate universe where superman exist. You're purposely twisting my argument to make yours make sense. Let me explain in the best possible way I can. That was an analogy to say that it is impossible to prove a negative. What I was saying is that no one can say as an absolute certainty that no gods exist anywhere in reality anymore than anyone can say with an absolute certainty that somewhere out in reality superman doesn't exist. And I think you know that is what I was saying. I also think you know that I was not arguing that superman exists and that I was drawing a parallel. <br /><br />None of those arguments prove that God exist, especially any specific God (YHWH, Allah, Zeus). In his first argument he defines God as " there is some force outside (in addition to) the universe, some real being transcendent to the universe". Is it a force or a being? He doesn't say. I guess it's up to the reader to interpret. And there are numerous flaws in all of his arguments, it would take a while to go through all of them, but I'll take a couple. Argument from miracles.<br /><br />fmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13759116863929766807noreply@blogger.com