tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post1031855268807744795..comments2024-03-27T11:13:34.520-05:00Comments on The Dunamis Word: Hip-Hop, Idolatry, & The Church Pt. 5Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-5210822369231528672010-12-22T11:06:21.904-06:002010-12-22T11:06:21.904-06:00I do agree with you.That's my vision.But let u...I do agree with you.That's my vision.But let us not forgive that there are things God allowed David to do that seemed to be in opposition with the law.Maybe there are some christians God allowed to do that.But my opinion is that many run after money and have a worldly motive for doing so.Karis Balôckhttp://missbalôck@hotmail.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-7261085690483816572010-12-21T12:03:35.079-06:002010-12-21T12:03:35.079-06:00Saints should have their own distribution enteties...Saints should have their own distribution enteties and not be bound with these secular centered outfits who do nothing but strip the power away from the presentation adn message.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-57042137354773711762010-12-21T12:00:35.265-06:002010-12-21T12:00:35.265-06:00Karis,
You said:"I hardly think that all the...Karis,<br /><br />You said:<i>"I hardly think that all the gospel singers are Lost.Because if everything u say is true,no Christian should sell discs."</i><br /><br />There is no biblical support for any God given gift or worship ever being controlled, distributed, or measured out by secular industry or secular individuals. <br /><br />In the Kingdom of Christ, no individual who's focus was not on Christ was in charge of distributing the worship of God. Why are we compelled to do so today? <br /><br />The LOVE of money, not just the need for money...the LOVE of it. That is the root of all this evil. (1 Tim. 6:10)District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-57801141742359981702010-12-21T10:00:52.623-06:002010-12-21T10:00:52.623-06:00I hardly think that all the gospel singers are Los...I hardly think that all the gospel singers are Lost.Because if everything u say is true,no Christian should sell discs.So all the Christians who do so are not closer enough with the Lord to hear His voice telling them to stop or simply not to ever do it.<br /><br />Levites were living on the donations and dimes of the sheep.Their part was to do the service for God.I think of some kind of Gospel Music system where everything we'ld have to do would be to sing what God wants us to sing and trust the Lord who'ld give us just what we need by allowing us to sell as many CD4S as He wants.We would not be running after the Public with our faces on big screens for it to buy our CDs.We would not draw their attention on us but on the Word,on God.I wish we don't show our breasts and body parts like those singers of the world.I don't understand how our worship leaders can dare appearing in such undecent apparels.I wish we have our own labels directed not by money but by God.This is where prayer intervens.The key element in making an album should be prayer and nothing else.It's what I think.<br /><br /><br />I say it again, when we do that, the World will take us seriously.Karis Balôckhttp://missbalock@hotmail.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-73648349462787362052009-03-03T00:20:00.000-06:002009-03-03T00:20:00.000-06:00This comment is for JJ...What is exactly your area...This comment is for JJ...<BR/><BR/>What is exactly your area of work in the body of Christ? Please explain?<BR/><BR/>Have you read your scriptures regarding Lucifer in Heaven? What has God said to you about this???<BR/><BR/>Please advise....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-65634119335282977082009-02-27T14:53:00.000-06:002009-02-27T14:53:00.000-06:00Pastor Burnett,I am so glad to be a part of this d...Pastor Burnett,<BR/><BR/>I am so glad to be a part of this discussion. reading these comments I'm lead to feel that in all of these issue's concerning hip hop and the church in a few ways I think the knife cust both ways. My Spirit tells me on the one hand ones choice to get into the music industry or engage in "holy hip<BR/>hop" becomes a matter of conviction. As Elder Tim stated why does the church have to employ tactics the world uses to keep "young people" interested<BR/>in being saved (more or less)? Salvation makes us new creatures which means old habits and appetites are dead. The conviction of the Holy Ghost is a<BR/>tool to act as a "red flag" for believers who are in error or about to step into error.<BR/>I think the only reason why anyone may find interest in something they used to like pre salvation is the residue of that lifestyle or that appetite still exists. There has to be a complete and total purging from who we used to be<BR/>and whose we are called to be.<BR/><BR/>Now on the flip what outlets does the church provide its young people to use their God given gifts outside of: the praise team, the youth choir, the dance<BR/>ministry? Its still a fight against what the media propagates on tv in music even thru the church? we are ice skatin up hill???<BR/><BR/>KevinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-22253960120914446982009-02-27T10:13:00.000-06:002009-02-27T10:13:00.000-06:00GcmWatch,You're on point my brutha...I think in li...GcmWatch,<BR/><BR/>You're on point my brutha...I think in light of what we can see that is seemingly an utter failure of the "gospel" music industry we have to even further reject the "hip-hop" gospel industry.<BR/><BR/>As I've stated before, and as you reverberate, we're dealing with worldviews and systems that are in my opinion diametrically opposed and one cannot convert something that is not willing to turn to Christ and be converted. <BR/><BR/>We're good though. I think this thread has gone quite well. There's been a lot of good and insuightful info placed on the table...and that JJ person started it all-LOL!<BR/><BR/>Blessed.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-2698084340642247022009-02-27T09:36:00.000-06:002009-02-27T09:36:00.000-06:00Pastor Burnett, I think the reason the conversatio...Pastor Burnett, I think the reason the conversation has been focused more on "redeeming" gospel music is because most of the folks here dont listen to hip-hop, some ignore it altogether and some are outright hostile to it. Thus many in the church dont see it as something needing to be redeemed. What Im saying is how can you redeem something which is in essence a foreign element to the fabric of the church?<BR/><BR/>Of course you did an excellent job laying out the multiple problems with this genre of music, but there is a fundamental difference with h/h that distinguishes it from gospel. H/h was imported into the church whereas gospel is indigenous to the church. As you said, h/h was incubated in American culture. To me that creates an entirely different resolve approach. <BR/><BR/>I dont believe it is about the format of the music, but about the poeple behind the music that need redemption. That can be accomplished without creating any new boards, panels, associations, etc. People need to submit themselves to God and his word. Of course when that is not the case, the music will only reflect the artist and not the Creator.<BR/><BR/>Hip hop cannot follow that pattern because it was as you noted created as a protest art form. And its was manifested primarly in violent behavior. You noted that those who seek to promote Christ's message are handicapped because if they dont resemble the h/h culture's "look" and "feel" they arent receieved because they wont have that crucial element of "street cred". Compromise? I think so. Again, I dont think that looking like the people group you are attempting to reach is a solid argument. It may apply to some groups but to others, it cant. IMO, the systemic problems with hip hop, its origins dont fall into the category of redemption. Perhaps management would be a better application.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-66282407784207091122009-02-27T07:49:00.000-06:002009-02-27T07:49:00.000-06:00It would be nice to see some Christian musicians a...It would be nice to see some Christian musicians and performers come together and start their own distribution and recording companies. But then, they will have to compete with the secular industry since they are the most visible. So, you have to merge secular artists with gospel ones. You have to put some hip hop on it! You have to do what the contract says or get sued! To really get your sales up, they have to promote and market YOU, your image, your likeness, and your personality so folks can become your fan. And to do that, they will have to copy the plan of the secular industry because God has no plan for making fans. Then, when the company gets big enough, they will take the bigger offer and sell it to a bigger company. And then it will be the same way as before and we will have what we have. This is a viscous loop and will never change because it's predicated on selling of one's self. That doesn't work in the Kingdom. Christ must be the ONLY star!<BR/><BR/>I'll never forget Vickie Mack's statements on Oprah. She said all she wanted to do was "create some clean music that her daughter could listen to instead of the sinful, sexy music she liked." So she created the largest self owned Black Gospel record company in history. She had Christian distribution initially from Sparrow and all was well. But when she sought to get her stuff mainstream and reach a broader audience, she joined forces with the biggest devil in the industry, Jimmy Ivene, the one personally responsible for the unclean music her daughter liked. She got a country boy, Kirk, and made him a gospel sex symbol (whatever that is) and she got him on MTV. She got his group fired because they were fat and MTV wouldn't play Melodies From Heaven, and replaced them with some skinny, sexy young folks. She got them on all the major venues. She got trinity 5 7 to look like whores for Christ and be sexy, but sing about Jesus. She built a multimillion dollar company off the very thing that she set out to stop. After all that, Oprah asked her, "so, does your daughter still listen to unclean music". She put her head down and replied "YES". And then she sold her company to the world like everyone else before her. <BR/><BR/>Wake up folks. It doesn't work and will never work. It didn't work in heaven and it won't work on earth. Nothing but misery, heartache, and a life of chasing applause and approval.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-5191399067827254102009-02-26T23:41:00.000-06:002009-02-26T23:41:00.000-06:00Tim, To be fair this convo has gone into talking a...Tim, <BR/><BR/>To be fair this convo has gone into talking about the redemption of gospel music and NOT the redemption of hip-hop...that is the topic of the post but that hasn't really been addressed as of yet. I gree with your sentiments of course.<BR/><BR/>I guess the question here is can "gospel music" be redeemed? I guess we need to do a post on that???-LOL!<BR/><BR/>Blessed1District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-24163590292508744282009-02-26T23:30:00.000-06:002009-02-26T23:30:00.000-06:00Notice that the ones wanting the redemption of Hip...Notice that the ones wanting the redemption of Hip Hop are the ones that do not truly know the Lord and the power of His Might. Why do I say this? <BR/><BR/>Well, because when you really come to know the Lord, you do not try and make the things that you used to do that were not pleasing in the Lord's sight okay; you turn away from it and the spirit of the Lord that lives in you detest it. When I was in the world cursing, Hip Hop didn't bother me, hate didn't bother me, fighting and seeking revenge to the extent of death didn't bother me but, now that I am truly saved all of those things grieve me now. <BR/><BR/>Why? Because the love of the Lord lives and resides in me and I abide in Him. The Bible says to Love the Lord is to Hate evil, and if you truly know that you love the Lord you will hate the things that the Lord hates. The bible says to shun the very appearance of evil. My question to those that have no problem with this redemption of Hip Hop talk. Are you grieved or bothered by the real thing: JayZ and others like him? If you are not then it is safe to say that you have had a pseudo experience with God. <BR/><BR/><B>Psa. 97:10</B> Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. <BR/><BR/><B>Psa. 26:5</B> I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. <BR/><BR/><B>Prov. 8:13</B> The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. <BR/><BR/>The Church has lost its focus, we are no longer focused on the Lord, but instead we are focused on Mammon. We say that we want to see people saved but we really want people to be added to the local church for growth. We have forgotten that by the foolishness of preaching souls are saved, and the Lord said that if I be lifted up I will draw all men to me... Our method of drawing and reaching people often times end when they get to the church and confess and have a pseudo experience with God. Thus the birth of pseudo christians that fight to get the approval to do the things that they used to do before Christ came into there lives...<BR/><BR/><B>2Chr. 7:14</B> If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. <BR/><BR/><B>1Cor. 1:21</B> For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <BR/><BR/><B>2Chr. 7:14</B> If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. <BR/><BR/><B>John 12:32</B> And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. <BR/><BR/>Timothy MeekinsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-39236858124136998782009-02-26T17:28:00.000-06:002009-02-26T17:28:00.000-06:00Khalid,Thanks for reading this man. I was going to...Khalid,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for reading this man. I was going to send you an email so that you can address and add to this discussion from your perspective. I also appreciate your prayers, and the family is doing fine. <BR/><BR/>For those who don't know we suffered a tragedy of a murder of my Godson 2 weeks ago. Thanks for the prayers of all. <BR/><BR/>I want to first say that I HIGHLY appreciate of all the commentary and godly points of view posted here. This has blessed my soul and I believe is blessing those that read and challenging everyone to think, rethink and pray about their positions on this subject. That's a positive and I believe points are being received well.<BR/><BR/>I also want to state that I don't believe, for reasons that I've stated that we should throw the "baby out with the bathwater" and reject the "industry" simply because the devil's influence. IF we are consistent with that modus operandi, we will withdraw and become anonother Essene community, and like JJ has questioned, will that be good for those who need to hear and know us?<BR/><BR/>I also think that some things weren't addressed biblically BECAUSE they were not issues in the First Century church. We would not expect to see Paul or the Apostles develop a routine for the proliferation of music ministry within First Century palestine because the church was still an underground church and there was NOT a display such as we see, no mega-churches, and in fact, 1st, 2nd and 3rd John was written to a HOUSE church...The saints weren't involved in "Big Church" and didn't have the problems that a 2,000 year old church body has developed. the admonitions we do see are geared toward the development and order of a relatively "small" church. <BR/><BR/>Some of what we are dealing with is due to the MATURING of the church. Yet other of what we are dealing with is due to the apostasy and corruption within the church. These things are unique to a post first century church. <BR/><BR/>Now, one of the only extrabiblical references that we have about an outsider making note of the late 1st Century and early 2nd century church is from Pliny The Younger, who was a Roman Prefect who challenged Christians to LEAVE the church. He served under Emporer Trajan in about AD 112. In his interviews in which he promised to spare the life of Christian defecters, he recorder the testimony of those who informed him about what Christians did when they gathered and how they lived. In part of his testimony he recorded the following:<BR/><BR/><I>They (Christians)were in the habit of meeting on a certain day fixed before it was light,then they sang in alternative verses a hymn to christ as to God,...</I><BR/><BR/>As noted, this was not a big community and was not making waves at this time due to persecution. Remember there was no tape or CD ministry then, so even the WORD was spread simply mouth to mouth and in epistles copied and spread in letter form. "Elders" were in charge of communicating the message and preserving the story of Christ. In fact Papias mentioned that he favored "face to face" exposition RATHER than letter or something in print so he could get everything that came with the communication of truth including feeling, emotion and inflection of the one telling the story...<BR/><BR/>NOW we are living in a different time. Print is valued MORE than spoken word. Church is Big Business rather than simple and powerful gatherings and our appetites have progressed. <BR/><BR/>Do we feel that we need to reestablish a patriarchal society in order to be effective or bring back music ministry???<BR/><BR/>Like JJ I am leary of placing the direction of all ministry in some church council's hand. Should I say POPE???...Should I say Anglican??? BUT, if we want to be strictly letter of the WORD, the early church had all things in common (Acts 4:32)and laid their goods at the apostles feet(Acts 4:35)...In 27 years of ministry NOONE has laid anything at my feet as recorded within scripture...<BR/><BR/>However, like Br. Enochwalked, I am just as leary of musicians and otherwise (even Preachers)not being accountable for their actions as we see today. <BR/><BR/>For all these reasons and more, I believe that the industry can and should be reformed from within the industry and that we should teach, train and expect the NEXT generation of gospel singers to be ACCOUNTABLE to the church. That begins with accountability and faithful regard to the scripture, NOT a withdrawal from being engaged within the culture. Some lines should not be crossed clearly but if TRUTH isn't in place to fill the void...what good are the Saints??? Matthew 5. <BR/><BR/>THAT begins NOT in some backdoor church council, but in the community of believers wherever those believers may be. <BR/><BR/>This is a grand undertaking BUT this is what the ministry should seek to accomplish. The "star" mentality or the "pyramid" mentality must cease. <BR/><BR/>Now, any more fireworks here, I'll duck my head so don't mind me...Please continue.-LOL<BR/><BR/>Blessed!District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-14549292251973452612009-02-26T12:12:00.000-06:002009-02-26T12:12:00.000-06:00Br. EnochWalked,I know the concept of 'coverin...Br. EnochWalked,<BR/><BR/>I know the concept of 'covering' all too well. Where I live, it has always translated into very weird, abusive practices. The stories that come from battered sheep stepping over the dead bodies (spiritually dead bodies) of other sheep in a frantic bid to escape these 'covering' ministries are legion where I am located.<BR/><BR/>And I've experienced this myself. <BR/><BR/>So right now, my husband is my covering and this is biblical too.<BR/><BR/>But it is not for lack of trying to be involved with the local church body. We've put more effort into it than anyone else I know!<BR/><BR/>*Sidebar: in my city/country there is a growing number of Christians that have have been spewed out of the church & are meeting in home. Yes, that's right-the underground church is a growing, actual reality here. This is not confined to China, it is happening on our shores too.<BR/><BR/>Everyone, please don't forget or ignore the hour we're in. The great apostasy a scriptural fact. We are seeing the falling away RIGHT NOW-AT THIS VERY MINUTE. And it will only heighten as the hour approaches. <BR/><BR/>Why would any truly saved singer/player want to be under the 'covering' of an apostate ministry? Talk about spirits-I sure don't need the demons they have on them all over me. I got problems of my own, man! ;)<BR/><BR/>So I've just been in a holding pattern. The Lord has not told my husband or I to join up with any local church body and until the order changes, I'm not running ahead of this. <BR/><BR/>Br Enoch, you also mentioned that perhaps gospel artists could be under the umbrella of a coucil of elders. <BR/><BR/>Again, WHO these elders are is what is so critical! I can't stress this enough. <BR/><BR/>It's a good idea, but if not executed properly the performers & goings on underneath this covering would in time smell identical to the stench rising up now. <BR/><BR/>This is no small undertaking to suddenly lay hands on.<BR/><BR/>And the satanic backlash would be off the hook too, so count the cost.<BR/><BR/>As for how Gaither does it, now here's an interesting concept to find out more about. A cousin of mine sings Southern Gospel and has told me some about this, but I'm fuzzy on the details. <BR/><BR/>Anybody else aware of how Bill Gaither structures his organisation?<BR/><BR/>Br EnochWalked said:"We all agree that "Black" gospel music is contaminated/lethal and poisonous spiritually as a whole, BUT not all, do we agree. GOD always has a "remnant"! Amen. Hallelujah!"<BR/><BR/>Yes sir, he always has a remnant. It is a tough road to trod, let me tell you. I am actually born of a remnant and it is an interesting life to live. I have seen however, that even some far-flung, twice-removed remnant can be used as a ram in the bush.<BR/><BR/>Time to start praying the rams begin to ready for the battle!<BR/><BR/>JJJJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908877713350128695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-9272217211657656762009-02-26T11:03:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:03:00.000-06:00Pastor Burnett, you need to have some type of symp...Pastor Burnett, you need to have some type of symposium...I dare not use the word conference. LOL. I would seriously consider attending a forum like this with the conditions of bringing about deliverance and breakthroughs. Amen. Back to the subject.<BR/><BR/>Pastor Foster, I agree with the heart of what you are saying today and earlier and what Anonymous(Lol) said yesterday. Where I would add is that Music Ministry when done in decency and in order can be used to preach, minister, prophesy and set captives free under the 5-fold. I agree 100% that any calling himself or herself or themselves ministers in music, they MUST be accountable to the Body of CHRIST. To keep power egos out of the way, it should be done through a plurality of governing elders(Oh-Oh, politics aside). <BR/><BR/>We all agree that "Black" gospel music is contaminated/lethal and poisonous spiritually as a whole, BUT not all, do we agree. GOD always has a "remnant"! Amen. Hallelujah!<BR/><BR/>Another question: Even if a sanctified music minister or choir produces a CD, or a group of "anointed", "sanctified", "HOLY GHOST" breathed songs.... TO GET THAT CD or MUSIC into a record store, i.e. "Family Christian Bookstores" or Mom and Pop Christian Bookstores, and ALL these megaChurches bookstores(LOL)<BR/>or now, the "MP3" or "IPOD" level or what "I-tunes"--Y'all help me because I am a neanderthal when it comes to high-tech. GOD gave man the ability to create all this wonderful technology, computers, internet, etc., etc. The LORD does use these avenues to REACH SOULS. Amen.<BR/><BR/>To get to the point, HOW DO we in the Body of CHRIST get HIS music, Not our music, but HIS music to those avenues WITHOUT going to the World or through the world, i.e. record labels, record companies, recording contracts, lawyers, excessive fees, COMPROMISE?<BR/>Cause if you look at some of the greatest worldly acts(before CHRIST, Amen, LOL), when Toni Braxton, TLC, (You could tell I was into Divas! I married a MaryMary wife! LOL), they went bankrupt because THEY DID NOT MAKE ANY MONEY from their 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd Albums/CDs! Now, those of us who are on the LORD's side, WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE IN THIS GOSPEL for HIS SAKE, HIS GLORY, and HIS HONOR. Now, whether that makes Pastor Burnett or Pastor Foster or myself, a millionaire in this life or the life to come...WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE IN THIS THANG for the souls, not for the money! Now, the other side is when Saints don't want to compensate the ministers, any true servant, music or non-music. I know of too many Pentecostal ministries that lose musicians to the Baptist, AME types because they DON't even give their musicians a love offering!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-51063709879939876482009-02-26T10:21:00.000-06:002009-02-26T10:21:00.000-06:00Sidebar: Please all you "anonymouses" use a differ...Sidebar: Please all you "anonymouses" use a different name so we know who's who. Its not that hard.<BR/><BR/>Ok, sorry to fuss.<BR/><BR/>But I agree with anonymous that gospel music was never intended nor sanctioned by God or scripture to be a stand alone ministry. It is subject and should be wholly controlled by the five fold (or four fold). Im not saying there are no unscrupulous people who would still do wrong in the 5F.<BR/><BR/>However, There is no instance in NT chronology of the church where we see any examples of this. None.<BR/><BR/>Which really leads me to say the entire "gospel music industry" is unbiblical. I think that is why it is so rife with uncontrollable error.<BR/><BR/>In that case, Im not advocating for any industry built on something that God never told us to make an industry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-14497326924314587842009-02-26T10:09:00.000-06:002009-02-26T10:09:00.000-06:00"then we've vicariously damaged those who are dedi..."then we've vicariously damaged those who are dedicated to Christ within the industry and that DO set forth a difference in lifestyle and presentation"<BR/><BR/>Pastor B, here's my problem with these people.<BR/>They are invisible, silent and complicit.<BR/>It really makes me agree with anonymous that their silence or fear of holding others in "the industry" accountable based on biblical standards is part of the systemic blackness of the industry.<BR/><BR/>I think if they are truly dedicated to Christ and are within the industry, they should speak out and declare God's standards. I mean are they dedicated to Christ or the recording contracts and compensation?<BR/><BR/>The darkness in the gospel music industry is now open and fully palatable. Being on the indside they should know this is deadly for the body to allow people with errant spirits to release poison music into the Body. It has that power. David played with the true anointing and Sauls demons departed. When a person is under the influence of demonic spirits and they sing, play, etc. no one can convince me that they are not releasing like spirits which will arguably affect someone. Can somebody say young people?<BR/><BR/>To me this is a crisis the leaven sort. Its already well beyond "a little leaven". I have heard stories of these gospel artists bringing their homosexual lovers to the performances and even more. Im sure (with the J Moss thing) that it happens on both sides. A sexually immoral person isnt qualified to minister to God's people. Perhaps that is why they do not want to be "tied down" to a local church or pastor because it would mean accountability.<BR/><BR/>PS: AWESOME discussion here!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-57986630969821462452009-02-26T08:59:00.000-06:002009-02-26T08:59:00.000-06:00Praise the LORD!Pastor Burnett,Awesome Dialogue an...Praise the LORD!<BR/><BR/>Pastor Burnett,<BR/>Awesome Dialogue and to GOD be all the glory. <BR/><BR/>Dear JJ and others reading this,<BR/><BR/>If the LORD's psalmists and HIS musicans are not subject to the Church(local level to mega level), then who will they submit to? Who will cover them? I know a lot of people do not like that term, covering...but it is 100% scriptural and biblical. You got to have covering whether preaching the Word or singing the Word. Amen.<BR/><BR/>The alternative that is out there now, especially in the past 10 years, which I know you and others agree, is a mess. Preaching to the choir. LOL!<BR/><BR/>Question to everyone out there, who produces and distributes the Windsongs--is it Windsong the Church, Who produces and distributes the Gaithers(?)-Is it Bill Gaither? Look at all those Gaither CDs through the years. Who produces and distributes all those worship songs on the other side of the tracks? Steven Curtis Chapman, the WOW Worship CDs, LOL. Who produces Nicole Mullen("I know my Redeemer Lives")? I do not discern the "enemy" and his cohorts controlling these people that I have just mentioned. I may be wrong, somebody correct me.<BR/><BR/>Now, the names I have mentioned before and after of any particular musician, ministry or church, or the pastor/bishop,.....I am just asking who produces and distributes their material. For example, the Brooklyn Mass Choir, Tabernacle...I believe its the Church that the name comes from? Yes/No. Bishop Paul S. Morton...I do not believe his music is compromised(Yes/No). T.D. Jakes(Hear me saints), and his Mass Choir have put out CDs. Even Creflo Dollar has put out CDs(LOL).<BR/>Now most of these people mentioned have the means($$$) to produce and distribute what they want and most are doing it to generate an income stream unfortunately(this is my hunch, not a thus saith the LORD).<BR/><BR/>Pastor B, isn't GMWA a COGIC subsidy or project? I do not know. I know a lot of people were abused and a lot of mess came from GMWA. How was it produced and distributed? What happened in this case?<BR/><BR/>Finally, I believe in the economy of GOD and that the LORD takes care of his own. GOD's music reflects and focuses on HIM, not the singer/choir/pastor, etc...that's as G. Craige Lewis said in the DVD Luciferian complex is what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. Applause and praise and honor ALL BELONGS to the JESUS!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-64224567468758302592009-02-25T23:57:00.000-06:002009-02-25T23:57:00.000-06:00hmmm...interesting convo...and a very needed one.....hmmm...interesting convo...and a very needed one....hmm...<BR/><BR/>Hey Pastor Burnet. How are you? Hope all is well with your fam. <BR/><BR/>-Khalid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-32916356446603746802009-02-25T22:37:00.000-06:002009-02-25T22:37:00.000-06:00Pastor B, I believe approach #2 is the most sound,...Pastor B, <BR/><BR/>I believe approach #2 is the most sound, with the exception of music being under the control and authority of the church.<BR/><BR/>As mentioned, this scares me as I have been targeted by several Big Daddy Church Pimps. I'd never want Eddie Long or Creffie Dollar or even some storefront Grand Poobah sinking their fangs into me. <BR/><BR/>Another question: WHO would be the authority in the church that would mentor, hold accountable and advocate for Christian artists? Anybody could do it? Er'rybody should do it? This could be a disaster in the wrong hands!<BR/><BR/>All gospel singers and players retreating to the confines of their living rooms is a strange thought too. Sunday mornings would be kinda weird, huh? Sorta like "The Day After".<BR/><BR/>JJJJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908877713350128695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-16694859771010167692009-02-25T22:28:00.000-06:002009-02-25T22:28:00.000-06:00W said: "You mentioned (3) words in your emai...W said: "You mentioned (3) words in your email that reflect your level of understanding when it comes to music, song, and its purpose in the Kingdom of God. Your statements actually affirm my response to the earlier blog. In your statement below you mentioned the words "gospel entertainment system". <BR/><BR/>Correct. I do realize it is the Gospel Entertainment System. I have a high level of understanding of the real deal here, W. This is not God's system, hence my choice of words. And I believe all the pitfalls of folks signing to labels that have been mentioned here are not fallacy but completely real. <BR/><BR/>Come on, if a secular panel of music lawyers can get the willies when speaking of the evil that is major labels...and this applies to ALL artists whether you're performing Appalaichan Disco or Black Gospel, then u know it's got to be totally dark, man!<BR/><BR/>But my views of Tommy Dorsey & the inception of gospel along with my caution regarding legalism stand. <BR/><BR/>W asked: "WOULD GOD INSTRUCT YOU TO SIGN A DEAL THAT PUTS YOU IN A DIRECT CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH satan's kingdom JUST SO THAT YOU CAN MINISTER MORE EFFECTIVELY TO THE CHURCH??? "<BR/><BR/>Uhhh, no W. He wouldn't. That's why I have not signed with a label and have no intention of doing so. <BR/><BR/>Interestingly, I seldom perform in churches. This is not an intentional decision, its simply where God has placed us. I'm actually surprised we're not asked to appear in churches more, but hey...it's probably better to get the word thru song out in the highways and bi-ways instead of always singing to the "Already Persuaded" crew. In secular settings we have NEVER been asked to water down our presentation, and it's pretty hard hitting.<BR/><BR/>W said: "Furthermore, If you remain in contract with a Christian or Gospel record label that is in contract with the secular industry then ultimately your relationship with God may be compromised. It’s as simple as that my friend!"<BR/><BR/>Agreed. BTW, I have written nothing on this blog that indicates I'm slobbering after a record deal so knock it off.<BR/><BR/>I'm not arrogant enough to think that countless others have been brought low by their dealings with the music industry, but I'M DIFFERENT and it would not happen to ME.<BR/><BR/>I'd just be the next meal. <BR/><BR/>As far as wanting to get your music out there as a promotion of self, the word says that promotion comes from the Lord.* And that has been good enough for me. We have put in a minimal effort to get our group "out dere". The opportunities that have come our way, we can surely take little credit for. <BR/><BR/>*This in fact is one piece of advice I would have for those wanting sing publically. <BR/><BR/>As for allowing the church to control gospel music instead of the music industry...great idea in theory but keep in mind the church is filled with snakes and vipers who would turn an artist out just like a label would. This idea scares me too, quite frankly.<BR/><BR/>I for one don't want to be under the iron fist and leering eye of Bishop Hamhock.<BR/><BR/>A few folks have mentioned being satisfied to sing at home and glorify God this way. <BR/><BR/>It would've been sad if Helen Baylor had done this and not recorded the album which contained her testimony. I personally know folks who changed their life around after hearing that testimony. Very powerful. <BR/><BR/>At the end of this, the salient point that all artists must answer is "why" they are performing music.<BR/><BR/>If the "why" is some carnal, jive reason...then I guess you're a sheep to the slaughter. <BR/><BR/>Not everyone's "why" is inspired by Lucifer, however.<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see some acknowlegement of that.<BR/><BR/>JJJJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908877713350128695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-29082870398757600612009-02-25T17:30:00.000-06:002009-02-25T17:30:00.000-06:00So in essence we are discussing 2 differnt ways to...So in essence we are discussing 2 differnt ways to address the problem that we all recognize that is a problem.<BR/><BR/>1- reform the "industry" realizing that it is an "industry" and although controlled by secular individuals yet serves a purpose which can can use to the edification of HIS people everywhere. this requires a total revamping and teaching at a grass roots level of the biblical use of music and presentation. <BR/><BR/>2- Let the current "industry" continue to die as it is in the hands of the ungodly anyway. redevelop "independent" voices and talents that realize the place of service is UNDER the authority of the church and not independent of the church leadership and biblical intents. Teach, train and develop at a grass roots new talent that is sensitive to the leading of the Spirit Of The Lord and uncompromising in monetary issues. <BR/><BR/>Well, does one preclude or exclude the other?<BR/><BR/>This is an excellent convo and one that the church must take advantage of because we're at a cross-roads. <BR/><BR/>very good.District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-59639304122481392462009-02-25T17:18:00.000-06:002009-02-25T17:18:00.000-06:00Why can't folks sing and play and be satisfied wit...Why can't folks sing and play and be satisfied with what they are offering God? Signing a record deal says that you desire a larger audience, more applause, and accolades. Sure, it may look like you are reaching more people, but is that necessary? Did the disciples reach people with music? Was music a tool of evangelism? It's a trap! No way around it. It will lead to issues, whether personal, spiritual, or legal. The enemy will not allow a pure person to survive the industry without drama and heartache. I cannot tell you how many demons of music have spoken out to me and claimed the lives of those that signed deals. I'm sure there are some that are walking right before God and signing deals. But in the end, they will either fall into the trap of sin, or have little success in the industry. The devil owns it doc, and God doesn't want it. Trust meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-15394222191025566572009-02-25T17:16:00.000-06:002009-02-25T17:16:00.000-06:00It's still talent in it's raw form. Preaching is ...It's still talent in it's raw form. Preaching is preaching in it's raw form. Music is talent that can be used for good or evil, but it assists ministry vs. establishes it. There is a BIG difference. Though some may minister through it in some ways, it is, in it's purest form, talent. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I compared Hip Hop to the industry of music and the industry of music does not allow for pure ministry. Though one may be in it and wants to change it, it cannot be changed. So, all I'm saying is that, one should have the desire to sing, play, or create music, without necessarily the desire to promote it. When the desire to make it is pure, then the satisfaction of doing it is there without the trappings of the industry. The industry will get it out there, but that is not necessarily a blessing or the will of God. In exchange for that, there MUST be compromise and that's a trap. My goodness, we would avoid all other traps of the enemy that forces compromise except music. With music, we make a way for it and make excuses for the compromising because we want it and folks want to be out there doing it. But it still is not a stand alone ministry tool that was used by the apostles outside of the church of God to evangelize and reach the lost. It's talent. Entertains and blesses, but is yet in it's rawest form, talent and not a gifting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-62840915731280319052009-02-25T17:13:00.000-06:002009-02-25T17:13:00.000-06:00JJ.... I appreciate your response....You mentione...JJ.... I appreciate your response....<BR/><BR/>You mentioned (3) words in your email that reflect your level of understanding when it comes to music, song, and its purpose in the Kingdom of God. Your statements actually affirm my response to the earlier blog. In your statement below you mentioned the words <B><I>"gospel entertainment system"</I></B>. A 'gospel entertainment system' is far from what the Bible instructs in <B>Ephesians Chapter 5, Psalms 96:1, and beyond.</B> The 'gospel music system' you are referring to is a manifestation and continuation of what the founder of gospel music, Mr. Thomas Dorsey meant to create. <B>A merger of the Church and the World’s music.</B> So like Mr. Dorsey was formerly... today many artists in the Gospel industry are confused about what God requires of their musical abilities. Therefore, many Church musicians waiver back and forth from the secular and gospel music industries/venues in search of money, fame, and recognition. <B>So the question here is whose system will the Church continue to follow when in comes to music/song creation and distribution??? Will we follow what the Bible instructs or will we follow what the amazing Mr. Thomas Dorsey created???</B><BR/><BR/>The 'gospel entertainment system' as you call it has some really neat features... but ultimately it promotes the exploitation of one's <B>Purpose, Ability, and Time.</B> Simply put the music industry is part of lucifers/satans kingdom on earth. Just as lucifer attempted to promote and lift himself above God in Heaven... he has now established a world system that exploits and promotes the images and abilities of <B>men in exchange for money!.</B> Couple this system with music and you have the <B>MUSIC INDUSTRY!</B><BR/><BR/>LET ME BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR... <B>GOSPEL MUSIC IS SECULAR MUSIC.</B> TO COME TO THIS CONCLUSION ONE MUST BE WISE ENOUGH TO LOOK AT THE ORIGIN AND FORMATION OF THE MUSIC GENRE. THEREAFTER, ONE MUST BE WISE ENOUGH TO CHECK THE ASSOCIATIONS AND OWNERSHIP STRUCTURE THAT THE MUSIC IS ACCOUNTABLE TO. CURRENTLY, WE KNOW THAT ALL INDUSTRIALIZED CHRISTIAN MUSIC INCLUDING GOSPEL IS ACCOUNTABLE TO SECULAR MUSIC. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU SIGN A DEAL WITH A MAJOR CHRISTIAN RECORD LABEL YOU WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE TO A MAJOR SECULAR RECORD LABEL IN SOMEWAY. <B>Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.</B><BR/><BR/><B>NOW ANSWER THIS FOR ME JJ...</B> <BR/><BR/>WOULD GOD INSTRUCT YOU TO SIGN A DEAL THAT PUTS YOU IN A DIRECT CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH satan's kingdom JUST SO THAT YOU CAN MINISTER MORE EFFECTIVELY TO THE CHURCH??? This is the Fundamental question you have to ask yourself before signing any deal with any record label in the industry. <BR/><BR/>SPEND TIME IN PRAYER AND MEDITATION... THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU ACT. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, If you remain in contract with a Christian or Gospel record label that is in contract with the secular industry then ultimately your relationship with God may be compromised. It’s as simple as that my friend!<BR/><BR/><B>Here my recommendations for you:</B><BR/><BR/>Start your research efforts by reading Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. Once you have read this, pray that God will give you revelation on how this relates to music as we know it today. Pray for God's view on the issue.<BR/><BR/>As for your contractual obligations to the industry as an artist / musician... I am not sure that you will ever be able to overcome the desire to be on the 'stage'. <B>However, my recommendation to you would be to get out while or if you can...</B> Once you are relieved from the industry, work a job or perform another work with your hands for money until God shows you how he will use you further in the Kingdom. <B>But by all means use wisdom and discretion as you proceed.</B><BR/><BR/><B>You can always sing and play praises to God at your house! God will be glorified just the same....</B><BR/><BR/>God Bless-<BR/><BR/>WAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2357475346759651140.post-45581363304968361772009-02-25T16:49:00.000-06:002009-02-25T16:49:00.000-06:00Great comments and I agree for the most part but I...Great comments and I agree for the most part but I would challenge that because "Music" is not listed as a pastoral ministry gift for the "prefecting" or "teaching" of the saints that it's invalid as a "ministry". The OT was full of families who were dedicated to temple music "ministry" or service. Korah was one family etc. I believe that as individuals WE are ministering servants,flames of fire (Heb. 1:7, Ps. 104:4) so in essence the service we render to God is ministry (aka hebrew "serath") in scriptural sense of the word. Yes it's a different aspect other than didactic ministry but certainly no less important, essential or vital to he health of the church in general. <BR/><BR/>So far as "industry", I believe that like "eden" we can't return to the pure state (not to say that there was one) but for us to simply acquiest and make melody in our hearts and to one another is unredemptive. Now, for me, this is totally UNLIKE hip-hop and holy-hiphoppers. They are trying to sanitize an ungodly and anti-Christ world view. We are trying to REFORM what belongs to God and his church. There are VASTLY different things and approaches and is not a fair comparison so far as the logic is concerned...this is similar to an apple and orange. <BR/><BR/>So in essence, IF we paint the industry as godless, then we've vicariously damaged those who are dedicated to Christ within the industry and that DO set forth a difference in lifestyle and presentation. This isn't compromise by any means but merely an approach that we as a church should be willing to set forth, retrain and refocus on. <BR/><BR/>Blessed!District Supt. Harvey Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15315686602819371111noreply@blogger.com